The Elder Scrolls Online

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Xerge

Xerge

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Daidraco said:
I personally think weaving and animation cancelling makes your character look like its having some kind of graphical artifacting. So not only does it feel terrible, but it looks terrible too.
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Everyone who participates in end game will agree with you however the point still holds that ESO as a game currently has a gameplay option that caters to a group of players who like to challenge them selves and push combat limits, this entire behavior can be followed by a team and it becomes like a well oiled machine. Do the raid>record team DPS>have a meeting about it>come back in a couple of days and beat your score, rinse repeat. It was a different raid experience from WoW and FF14 all together.

To add, I absolutely want a mixed system of New World and tab targeting that also allows some kind of growth at the end game if a player chooses to chase it, however if they don't, still would be successful at the majority of the game's offered content. I feel like AoC will offer this in the long run, but we'll see.
 
Chersk

Chersk

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The post specifically states that weaving is still a thing - they’re just decreasing it’s effectiveness. So instead of 20% of your parse being LA’s it will account for 10%.

10% is a huge deal and worth doing…
 
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Xerge

Xerge

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Sure 10 percent is worth doing, I wouldn't deny that, but knowing you're going to be hard capped at roughly a 10% ceiling on LAs is a bullshit move. It also doesn't change the fact that the meta will still be 9 dots plus a spammable. The change only addresses the bottom floor and neuters the end game at first look. we'll see what parses look like though..
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

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Xerge said:
Sure 10 percent is worth doing, I wouldn't deny that, but knowing you're going to be hard capped at roughly a 10% ceiling on LAs is a bullshit move. It also doesn't change the fact that the meta will still be 9 dots plus a spammable. The change only addresses the bottom floor and neuters the end game at first look. we'll see what parses look like though..
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Most people just seem to be reading the room in that if encounters arent judged by the ENTIRE team NOT weaving, then its not really a nerf. Just a PR move to maybe drive some subs. I honestly dont have a stake in this game anymore, but would if weaving disappeared. So Im watching the issue with some hope cause the MMO space is dry af.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Weaving may be what separates vet players from elite HM players with that extra 15-20% damage but honestly it has nothing to do with the power balance between casual and hardcore in this game which is the reasoning behind the changes.

Casual players do like 20-30k dps and struggle in rnd's vs the 100k dps hard core players do in vets. Weaving has fuck all to do with it tbh. if the weaving change drops them down to 90k DPS then they still do 3x the dmg of a casual.

Casuals wear random gear without any rhyme or reason towards any set bonuses, passive skill bonuses, really no fucking logical reason at all its just something they found in a dungeon they thought looked cool. They choose ineffective skills, don't even slot, much less use buffs, and don't swap to their back bar ever. Every casual who gets an Oakensoul ring doubles their DPS just from buffs. 10minutes of youtubing advice on what sets or builds to use doubles it again and then they are in the ball park where weaving makes the difference between 80k and 100k dps.
 
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Daidraco

Daidraco

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Sylas said:
Weaving may be what separates vet players from elite HM players with that extra 15-20% damage but honestly it has nothing to do with the power balance between casual and hardcore in this game which is the reasoning behind the changes.

Casual players do like 20-30k dps and struggle in rnd's vs the 100k dps hard core players do in vets. Weaving has fuck all to do with it tbh. if the weaving change drops them down to 90k DPS then they still do 3x the dmg of a casual.

Casuals wear random gear without any rhyme or reason towards any set bonuses, passive skill bonuses, really no fucking logical reason at all its just something they found in a dungeon they thought looked cool. They choose ineffective skills, don't even slot, much less use buffs, and don't swap to their back bar ever. Every casual who gets an Oakensoul ring doubles their DPS just from buffs. 10minutes of youtubing advice on what sets or builds to use doubles it again and then they are in the ball park where weaving makes the difference between 80k and 100k dps.
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I could go on this long trip and tell you why people shouldnt have to look up a fucking video to play a game, but apparently thats how the devs feel across multiple MMO's. Then marketing tries to figure out why MMO's cant ever break the fkn glass ceiling anymore.
 
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Sylas

Sylas

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yeah i'm not talking about having to watch videos to learn tips and tricks to eek out the last 10% of effectiveness of an already solid build, i'm talking about the utter cluelessness of your average casual. Like wearing pieces from 6 different sets and not getting any bonuses. Light helmet with health regen enchant, heavy with max magica, when they are a stamina dps. having back bar weapon attacks on their main bar so they can't even activate the skill. Divine trait gear without even having a mundus stone activated. Level 42 gear on a 160+ CP character. shit like that.

Any game that allows you to make choices also allows you to make shitty, shitty choices.
 
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Springbok

Springbok

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I really like this game just playing it like a single player RPG. The combat does suck, but the world and everything else is great to me. Heading back to Vvardenfell hit me right in the feels ngl
 
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Kirun

Kirun

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A friend and I noped out of this after about 3 days due to the combat system. It's fucking garbage. I think they'd really have something great if they did a massive overhaul of it.
 
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Warrik

Warrik

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Kirun said:
A friend and I noped out of this after about 3 days due to the combat system. It's fucking garbage. I think they'd really have something great if they did a massive overhaul of it.
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If ESO had Black Desert combat, I think that would be pretty interesting.
 
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Kirun

Kirun

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Warrik said:
If ESO had Black Desert combat, I think that would be pretty interesting.
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It doesn't necessarily need some sort of revolutionary system, it just needs to not be utter dogshit.

The combat was so fucking piss-easy while leveling up, the game might as well have just given you a /kill_npc command and it would've had the same effect. Literally point your mouse cursor at something and it dies. Like I said, it took all of 3 play sessions for me and my friend to nope the fuck out. There seemed like an absolute fuckload of content, but who can be bothered when the combat is so goddamn unfun.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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I thought they were gonna turn it around but the changes on the PTR are not nearly enough to satisfy the people who "don't play because the combat is lame" ex-players and it's too much changes for the current players who "think the combat is tactical and shows skill, even if it's not enjoyable."

For me It doesn't go far enough and more over it made DOTs much weaker DPS wise so instead of less bar swapping to maintain buffs/dots and focusing instead of choosing appropriate skills on your main bar, all this seems to be doing is making people slot even more DOTs and bar swap more to maintain them. 10s > 20 seconds is nothing if everyone is now slotting even more dots that they have to constantly refresh and only using 1 spammable while weaving light attacks.

I dunno what you guys mean by "new world" style combat. If you mean weighted attacks (no animation cancelling, must follow through, different weapons feel "heavier" than others, etc ), The game engine itself really can't support it. The new combat video for ashes of creation looks like the only hope for that style combat, no clue if that game will launch in as abysmal a state as new world did but there's at least something on the horizon.

but if you mean action style combat where you have to choose to slot a small number of attacks, cross hair targetting, telegraphs, etc. Then this game already has all that. All you have to do is equip an Oakensoul ring. Doing so instantly makes the combat 3x more enjoyable. Having only 5 slots for skills forces you to be more tactical in skill selection. Even trying to minmax you still need 1 spammable and 1 execute which limits you to at most, 3 DOTs. but most classes have a few non dot skills they must utilize so you end up with more of situational/tactical choices for slotted skills which makes combat feel better.

IDK why they took what was already an easy game and decided to make it easier with the one tamriel patch, but increasing the difficulty would do wonders for making the combat more enjoyable. Me, a casual scrub in crafted gear should not be able to solo nearly all normal dungeons and half the world bosses. Actually change that to virtually all of the world bosses, now that I got the companion. When she's leveled up and geared i'm pretty sure it'll be all wb and even some vet dungeons.
 
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T

Tide27

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Sylas said:
I thought they were gonna turn it around but the changes on the PTR are not nearly enough to satisfy the people who "don't play because the combat is lame" ex-players and it's too much changes for the current players who "think the combat is tactical and shows skill, even if it's not enjoyable."

For me It doesn't go far enough and more over it made DOTs much weaker DPS wise so instead of less bar swapping to maintain buffs/dots and focusing instead of choosing appropriate skills on your main bar, all this seems to be doing is making people slot even more DOTs and bar swap more to maintain them. 10s > 20 seconds is nothing if everyone is now slotting even more dots that they have to constantly refresh and only using 1 spammable while weaving light attacks.

I dunno what you guys mean by "new world" style combat. If you mean weighted attacks (no animation cancelling, must follow through, different weapons feel "heavier" than others, etc ), The game engine itself really can't support it. The new combat video for ashes of creation looks like the only hope for that style combat, no clue if that game will launch in as abysmal a state as new world did but there's at least something on the horizon.

but if you mean action style combat where you have to choose to slot a small number of attacks, cross hair targetting, telegraphs, etc. Then this game already has all that. All you have to do is equip an Oakensoul ring. Doing so instantly makes the combat 3x more enjoyable. Having only 5 slots for skills forces you to be more tactical in skill selection. Even trying to minmax you still need 1 spammable and 1 execute which limits you to at most, 3 DOTs. but most classes have a few non dot skills they must utilize so you end up with more of situational/tactical choices for slotted skills which makes combat feel better.

IDK why they took what was already an easy game and decided to make it easier with the one tamriel patch, but increasing the difficulty would do wonders for making the combat more enjoyable. Me, a casual scrub in crafted gear should not be able to solo nearly all normal dungeons and half the world bosses. Actually change that to virtually all of the world bosses, now that I got the companion. When she's leveled up and geared i'm pretty sure it'll be all wb and even some vet dungeons.
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I certainly agree with most of your points. I would venture to say that 90% of the games combat encounters last even less than 10 secs.

The only time I worried about DoTs was during WB encounters and dungeon bosses.

I do not like the changes as proposed at all so far. The game is certainly not challenging outside of some hard mode DLC vet content and some trials.

I feel the majority of the player base is here to be an online Skyrim and fashion quest. The cosmetic and housing system is pretty good
 
Kirun

Kirun

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Sylas said:
I thought they were gonna turn it around but the changes on the PTR are not nearly enough to satisfy the people who "don't play because the combat is lame" ex-players and it's too much changes for the current players who "think the combat is tactical and shows skill, even if it's not enjoyable."

For me It doesn't go far enough and more over it made DOTs much weaker DPS wise so instead of less bar swapping to maintain buffs/dots and focusing instead of choosing appropriate skills on your main bar, all this seems to be doing is making people slot even more DOTs and bar swap more to maintain them. 10s > 20 seconds is nothing if everyone is now slotting even more dots that they have to constantly refresh and only using 1 spammable while weaving light attacks.

I dunno what you guys mean by "new world" style combat. If you mean weighted attacks (no animation cancelling, must follow through, different weapons feel "heavier" than others, etc ), The game engine itself really can't support it. The new combat video for ashes of creation looks like the only hope for that style combat, no clue if that game will launch in as abysmal a state as new world did but there's at least something on the horizon.

but if you mean action style combat where you have to choose to slot a small number of attacks, cross hair targetting, telegraphs, etc. Then this game already has all that. All you have to do is equip an Oakensoul ring. Doing so instantly makes the combat 3x more enjoyable. Having only 5 slots for skills forces you to be more tactical in skill selection. Even trying to minmax you still need 1 spammable and 1 execute which limits you to at most, 3 DOTs. but most classes have a few non dot skills they must utilize so you end up with more of situational/tactical choices for slotted skills which makes combat feel better.

IDK why they took what was already an easy game and decided to make it easier with the one tamriel patch, but increasing the difficulty would do wonders for making the combat more enjoyable. Me, a casual scrub in crafted gear should not be able to solo nearly all normal dungeons and half the world bosses. Actually change that to virtually all of the world bosses, now that I got the companion. When she's leveled up and geared i'm pretty sure it'll be all wb and even some vet dungeons.
Click to expand...
The problem with combat systems in MMOs nowadays is that you really need to do it one of two ways..

If you want to have an "action" style combat system that relies on landing skillshots, abilities, etc. you need to go all-in, balls-deep and implement systems like BDO or even Lost Ark to a lesser extent. Otherwise, just stick to the fucking classic, time-tested system of tab-target, GCDs, etc. ala FFXIV, WoW, etc. Or even dumb it down further and make ability usage even rarer ala EQ.

However, these "hybrid", half-assed, janky combat systems that games like Elder Scrolls, GW2(at least they have the excuse of releasing in 2012, when these systems were really "new" to the MMO space), etc. have just don't fucking work and aren't fun at all.
 
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Grim1

Grim1

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Kirun said:
The problem with combat systems in MMOs nowadays is that you really need to do it one of two ways..

If you want to have an "action" style combat system that relies on landing skillshots, abilities, etc. you need to go all-in, balls-deep and implement systems like BDO or even Lost Ark to a lesser extent. Otherwise, just stick to the fucking classic, time-tested system of tab-target, GCDs, etc. ala FFXIV, WoW, etc. Or even dumb it down further and make ability usage even rarer ala EQ.

However, these "hybrid", half-assed, janky combat systems that games like Elder Scrolls, GW2(at least they have the excuse of releasing in 2012, when these systems were really "new" to the MMO space), etc. have just don't fucking work and aren't fun at all.
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GW2's combat is great. Not as good as BDO's, but it's very fast and fluid, with a lot of deep possiblities (combos and synergies with other classes) where skill matters. And it's fun. GW2's combat is way, way better than most other mmo's, even to this day. They also did a great job making it fairly easy to do most open world PvE stuff and not know what you are doing. It's in the competitive pvp or raiding / high level fractals where skill is necessary. And better yet, high end gear doesn't cancel skill. Fuck gear treadmills / resets.

Comparing GW2's combat it to ESO's garbage is fightin words.

What I like about ESO, when I play it, are the quest storylines and the world. I never read or care about quests or lore in most mmos. Just click the buttons. But I find the story telling and world in ESO to be engaging enough to actually read some of it. But they screwed up by scaling the content to the player level. Boring. And then WoW copied it. Fuckwits.
 
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Daidraco

Daidraco

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Is this a patch or an expansion, or what? I can never tell with this game. I havent logged in, in months, and yet I still have it installed. Idfk
 
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