The Fermi Paradox -- Where is everybody?

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Zaara

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Oh yeah? What if Hugh Everett is correct and the quantum wavefunction doesnt collapse. And some alien species, from this universe or the second level up, has the ability to traverse the quantum fluctuations without the hindrance of the aforementioned wavefunction collapse? Then the Hilbert Space containing all the possible physical systems might not be impossible to travel through. This would effectively remove the need to physically move through spacetime and allow one to just jump around wherever the fuck you wanted to. Did they not cover this in your physics 101 class?

Look, man, if I wanted to get into spaghetti space arguments with you I could namedrop random quantum mechanics bits and state thereoretical nonsequitors too. All the shit supposedly possible within realms of spooky quantum science is completely detached from you, your physics, the Newtownian shit that applies to all fleshy beings. You can talk shit and bring up Physics 101 all you like, but don't act like the thereoretical existence of some trans-dimensional sentient spaghetti species is going to prop up the whole 'faster than light travel' idea.
 
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Sentagur

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Most of that post is legit physics and references one of the leading theories of cosmology. Aliens manipulating shit is a guess of course but given that there can potentially be an unaccountably infinite number of universes, who is to say that Bob the space martian from Universe # 42 doesnt have the technology to do so?

Oh you wanted science gobbledygook, i can do that. The quantum wave function is just the probability of a quantum state and it only collapses for an event once it in the past.
What we call now (this exact moment) is the constantly ongoing collapse of the quantum wave function for everything.
Once we master time quantum uncertainty will be a thing of the past as we will be able to measure every aspect of a particle and predict its behavior exactly.
 
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Loser Araysar

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Look, man, if I wanted to get into spaghetti space arguments with you I could namedrop random quantum mechanics bits and state thereoretical nonsequitors too. All the shit supposedly possible within realms of spooky quantum science is completely detached from you, your physics, the Newtownian shit that applies to all fleshy beings. You can talk shit and bring up Physics 101 all you like, but don't act like the thereoretical existence of some trans-dimensional sentient spaghetti species is going to prop up the whole 'faster than light travel' idea.

damn thats a sweet ass reply.

well done.
 
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Loser Araysar

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Admit USSR was real communism and first in space but communism doesn't work because the USSR collapsed.
Admit USSR was fake communism because it collapsed and communism getting to space first didn't count because it wasn't real communism.

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iannis

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I generally like Isaac, but with the Fermi Paradox he leaves out the most glaring argument.

"Well, obviously there's some bullshit in our assumptions. Imperialistic life may just be an adolescent impulse. A matured society (comprised of matured individuals) may leave behind the idea of reckless expansion as a whimsical and, really, juvenille fantasy. At the end of the day... there just might not be any good reason to build dyson swarms."

He skirts it with reality simulations. But he's still not willing to commit to the idea that his philosophy of futurism may not be the one ring to rule them all.
 
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uniqueuser

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If a civilization wants to maximize computation it appears rational to aestivate until the far future in order to exploit the low temperature environment: this can produce a 10^30 multiplier of achievable computation.
We hence suggest the “aestivation hypothesis”: the reason we are not observing manifestations of alien civilizations is that they are currently (mostly) inactive, patiently waiting for future cosmic eras
That is not dead which can eternal lie: the aestivation hypothesis for resolving Fermi’s paradox
 
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Chanur

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The question is, with the speed of light being what it is making collaboration between star systems virtually impossible - what advantage does this really serve? Whats the benefit to colonizing the next star? It can't send you anything back of any value. It can't trade with you. Each would basically be an island.
Better chance for your species to survive .
 
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Asshat wormie

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Look, man, if I wanted to get into spaghetti space arguments with you I could namedrop random quantum mechanics bits and state thereoretical nonsequitors too. All the shit supposedly possible within realms of spooky quantum science is completely detached from you, your physics, the Newtownian shit that applies to all fleshy beings. You can talk shit and bring up Physics 101 all you like, but don't act like the thereoretical existence of some trans-dimensional sentient spaghetti species is going to prop up the whole 'faster than light travel' idea.

You might want to look up what the fuck "nonsequitors" means. What I said follows very well from what I am assuming and that is the many world interpretation of the physical reality. And what random quantum bits did I use? The starting basics of quantum mechanics? Just because "hilbert space" isnt mentioned in some cartoon youtube video, using the term is not name dropping. Also are you arguing that the quantum and classical mechanics are somehow two different things and one doesnt affect us? All those scientists looking for a unified theory of physics are wasting their time I guess. And as for the faster than light travel, its understood that general relativity allows for it and it is agreed that distant objects are moving away from us at faster than light speed due to universal expansion.

Oh you wanted science gobbledygook, i can do that. The quantum wave function is just the probability of a quantum state and it only collapses for an event once it in the past.
What we call now (this exact moment) is the constantly ongoing collapse of the quantum wave function for everything.
Once we master time quantum uncertainty will be a thing of the past as we will be able to measure every aspect of a particle and predict its behavior exactly.

What you explained is only one of the hypothesis about how the universe. What I stated is not gobbledygook. It is one of the other leading hypothesis and one that has been gaining popularity in the last couple of decades. It argues that the wave function does not collapse and instead the "collapse" is relative to the observer, which leads to just a single state relative to said observer. The wave itself is not collapsing and there are, potentially, infinite states leading to infinite universes and infinite realities.
 
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Sentagur

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What you explained is only one of the hypothesis about how the universe. What I stated is not gobbledygook. It is one of the other leading hypothesis and one that has been gaining popularity in the last couple of decades. It argues that the wave function does not collapse and instead the "collapse" is relative to the observer, which leads to just a single state relative to said observer. The wave itself is not collapsing and there are, potentially, infinite states leading to infinite universes and infinite realities.

It might be the best hypothesis out there right now and it might even make sense on some level but but i did spend some time to try and get at least a bare understanding of quantum mechanics and i almost dislocated my brains. It is too esoteric and removed from the practical reality(for now) that the effort to understand it in laymen terms was a waste of time.
For now i have a recommendation to call any theoretical physicist with main field of study of quantum mechanics a hypothetical physicist instead.
 
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Palum

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You guys are all dumb. Space travel is hard. Star Citizen on PS9 is ez. Duh.
 
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LachiusTZ

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Kharzette beat me to it.

There is prolly something between a k1 and k2 civ that breaks from our understanding of existence. Like defeating entropy.

Us looking for interstellar civilizations is like ants looking for how humans communicate (cell phones). The tech is incomprehensible.

Most likely, there are billions of inhabited worlds, and there is some type of penalty for fucking with newbies like us. So its not worth it b/c of the mundane nature of us. They have access to everything about us, as any k1+ civ would, and billions of other similar worlds, why even come here?

The resources argument is a joke. The only one that makes sense is the tech is so foreign we cant see signs it is being used (FTL that gives off no heat, comms that give off no signal), and we are so pathetically unspectacular as to not be worth fucking with (maybe for the random "teenager" willing to risk getting grounded to vacuum up some natives on a drunk Friday night).
 
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Hachima

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I see a lot of reasons why another species wouldn't want to interact with us. Basically just bring up any controversial subject we deal with right now. We can't even get along with other races that are 100% biologically compatible with each other...What species would think we would get along with them any better? We fight each other over all sorts of beliefs and ideologies. From the outside I'd see us a poor performing species that wastes a lot of resources into our own destruction which could be better spent at becoming a more efficient species. Kind of like a horse that's not tamed yet. You see the potential but until it can calm itself down you aren't putting it together with all the other good horses.

While war can drive technological advances I think that drive has more potential of the species wiping itself out. I'd think a more peaceful collaborative species would be more efficient at making advances that could lead to interstellar travel. If that is the case, then they are more likely to have principals that prevent them from interfering/causing trouble with other species out there.

I bet aliens introduced some religious ideas and made some rules to see how we would behave. So one species that is fat and tastes like some prime wagyu says don't eat beef and eat this tasty tofu! Well we failed.... Then the insect species comes along and at first thinks hey maybe we are ok and they won't BBQ us...until we discover the magnafying glass and they see the kids burning the ants and say ahhh hell no!

In general our attitude that if something doesn't reach a certain intelligence level we can eat it doesn't make us a nice species to interact with...Heck that check doesn't even exist in some cultures...

Or we are really the slaves of some controlling species. Do honeybees realize they are just being used by us? Maybe we are the honeybee for some other species. They plant us here, take a FTL trip to pick up some lunch and when they get back (100s thousands of years have past for us) we have terramormed/technologicalformed the planet to something they can use. If not, they tweak the DNA formula and try another planet the next day. With the cattle mutilations back in the day I suspect our nuclear bomb tests set of some detectors and they found the delicious cow, engineered a new super delicious wagyu version and have left with no interest in us or ever visiting again now. Although they should really come back and engineer some super pig... Or maybe that is what they taste like and that's why they told some religions not to eat them!
 
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Ronaan

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The average human brain is by and large unable to parse the size of our solar system, much less the size of our galaxy.
It helps if you play Elite Dangerous I've found. Even at several times the speed of light, it still takes your the better part of an hour to travel to Hutton Orbital from the warp-in point.
 
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BrotherWu

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I really like thinking about this problem. From a layman's point of view, it often seems to me that people fail to fully account for the impact of time once intelligent life has arisen. Consider the technological advances of the last (just over) 100 years. We went from being a ground-based species to mastering flight, confirming the concepts of Relativity, unlocking the energy the atom, landing on the moon, sending robots to other planets and most of us now carry a device in our pockets that connects us to every other person on the planet and provides access to almost all of human knowledge. Consider what could happen in another 100 or 500 years, which is nothing on the cosmological scale. At this rate, it seems likely that we will achieve a technological singularity within 50 years that will move us closer to things like virtually free, clean energy, genetic modification, machine fusion and who knows what else. I'm sure there are things that we will come to understand in the coming decades that we can't even articulate as a subject matter today.

So, my point is that if we can imagine it, we will eventually do it. Notwithstanding an extinction event (external or internal source), we will begin colonizing planets and we will begin traveling to other solar systems eventually. Regardless of the difficulty of the physics, we will find a way.

From what we understand, statistically, ETs must be there. And yet, we see no signs of them. My theory is that life and consciousness become something we can't even understand at the moment, which is why we're not seeing what we're looking for; we don't know what we're looking for, we don't know where to look (they may be in other dimensions) and we don't know how to talk to them. Once thing is for sure, the next few generations are going to see some crazy shit, whether it be immortality or the whole planet getting aloha snackbar'd is difficult to say.
 
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Sentagur

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The problem with the Fermi paradox is that it is utterly arrogant.
It makes unreasonable assumptions, like we would be able to recognize life that evolved on other planets at all, or that we would be able to observe a species with a vastly superior technology at all.
Also our field of view is insignificant.
Its like a drunken frat boy goes to a local fountain with a dixie cup , scoops up a bit of water and then starts bitching how there are no whales in it.

If any alien species shares our distaste for death who is to say they dont evolve technology that makes biological bodies obsolete. Would we be even able to recognize that is life or even intelligent life given our limited knowledge and perception?
 
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