The Hobbit

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Mudcrush Durtfeet

Hungry Ogre
2,428
-757
Finally saw this. The only good lines were from the book. The added stuff for the Necromancer was decent, the rest was unimportant and was there to inflate the viewing time so they could make three movies (and three times the money) instead of one.

Smaug was cool. The sequence with the dwarves vs smaug was boring and silly though, and I kept wondering why Bilbo thought it was a good idea to EVER take the ring off around the dragon. I mean, seriously. Book aside, if I'm in a room with an enormous dragon looking for me, I'm going to want to be invisible. Any edge I can get, thank you very much.
 

Jysin

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,457
4,345
Smaug was cool. The sequence with the dwarves vs smaug was boring and silly though, and I kept wondering why Bilbo thought it was a good idea to EVER take the ring off around the dragon. I mean, seriously. Book aside, if I'm in a room with an enormous dragon looking for me, I'm going to want to be invisible. Any edge I can get, thank you very much.
My understanding was it wasnt really Bilbo's choice, but rather the ring willing him to take it off ala LoTR when Frodo starts losing focus and tries putting it on (which revealed his location to the Wraiths). The sequence with Bilbo briefly flashed to the eye of Sauron as he was gazing into Smaug's eye.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,968
214,258
In the book he was compelled to take it off. The ring wanted Smaug to have it.
The Hobbit was written as a standalone novel, The Ring was just an invisibility ring. The Hobbit did so well the publishers begged him for more and after some time of begging and pleading he relented and wrote the hobbit as part of a bigger story. the version i read never mentions that his ring is The Ring and The Necromancer is just that. when bilbo wears the ring he doesnt hear voices or feels any special properties from the ring except invisibility. it was not until LOTR did all this stuff about the will of the ring began being talked about. when Frodo (or bilbo?) asks gandalf why did Bilbo never become affected from all the times he used the ring over his 60 years of wearing it, i think his answer was, "hobbits are made of sterner stuff than they seem or similar comment.

oh and tarrant, please stop whacking it to wolf of wall street for 2 seconds and read my pm. thanks mate.
 

Nester

Vyemm Raider
4,978
3,183
The Hobbit was written as a standalone novel, The Ring was just an invisibility ring. The Hobbit did so well the publishers begged him for more and after some time of begging and pleading he relented and wrote the hobbit as part of a bigger story. the version i read never mentions that his ring is The Ring and The Necromancer is just that. when bilbo wears the ring he doesnt hear voices or feels any special properties from the ring except invisibility. it was not until LOTR did all this stuff about the will of the ring began being talked about. when Frodo (or bilbo?) asks gandalf why did Bilbo never become affected from all the times he used the ring over his 60 years of wearing it, i think his answer was, "hobbits are made of sterner stuff than they seem or similar comment.

oh and tarrant, please stop whacking it to wolf of wall street for 2 seconds and read my pm. thanks mate.
Depends on what version of the Hobbit you read, I doubt you read from the first edition. Tolkien retconed the book so many times to help it line up.

How JRR Tolkien Pulled A George Lucas On THE HOBBIT

We all bitch and moan about Greedo shooting first in the Special Edition of Star Wars, but George Lucas was far from the first guy to be revisionist with his own work. JRR Tolkien went back and changed a whole chapter in The Hobbit to make it better line up with The Lord of the Rings.

The original version of Riddles in the Dark, the chapter where Bilbo meets Gollum and gets the One Ring, was markedly different in 1937, when the book was first published. In that version Gollum is much less menacing, and the prize in the game of riddles isn't Bilbo's survival but rather the ring itself. In the original version of The Hobbit Gollum is quite happy to give away the ring, and when he loses the game he's rather bummed that he can't give it to Bilbo because he's lost it (Bilbo has already found it).

When Tolkien began work on a sequel (called The New Hobbit, after his publisher had roundly rejected material that would later become The Silmarillion), he changed the nature of the ring. Now it was a corrupting power, an insidious influence, and the idea that Gollum would happily give it up didn't fit. Tolkien needed to retcon his book, and he rewrote the chapter, sending it to his publisher in hopes of getting some help in fixing the discrepencies. In this version Gollum is a thrall to the ring, and he is a vicious monster who will kill to keep it. In the original chapter Gollum leads Bilbo out of the bowels of the mountain; in the revised chapter the creature chases Bilbo out.

Tolkien's publisher, Stanley Unwin, never got back to him, so Tolkien simply addressed the issue in the text of The Lord of the Rings. Since The Hobbit was presented as Bilbo's diary, translated by Professor Tolkien, he had Bilbo, during the Council of Elrond, explain he had lied about the circumstances of acquiring the ring. This establishes the power of the ring quite nicely. But Tolkien was surprised to find, in a galley of a new edition of The Hobbit, his revised Riddles in the Dark. Unwin had included it without telling him.

Tolkien made some other minor changes to the text of The Hobbit, many of which changed travel times so that distances in The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings matched. He changed some of the foods eaten, and most amusingly he changed the name of the High Elves. In the original text, the High Elves were called 'gnomes' after gnosis, the Greek word for knowledge. It soon became clear to Tolkien that the word gnome had a very different fantasy connotation to just about everybody else in the world.

One bit of retcon that never made it to publication during Tolkien's lifetime was The Quest of Erebor, which explained just why the hell Gandalf cared about Smaug so much anyway. By the time Lord of the Rings was finished, Tolkien had refashioned Gandalf, the wandering wizard, into an ancient being of immense power. The idea that he just idly set off on quests with troops of goofs was weird. The Quest of Erebor, a short story told from Frodo's point of view, was intended for the Appendices of Lord of the Rings and explained how Gandalf feared Smaug would be a tool for the newly rising Sauron. This information makes its way into The Hobbit: There and Back Again.

After Lord of the Rings Tolkien decided to revise The Hobbit one more time. This time around he intended to change the whole thing, to bring the narrative and tone more in line with the darkness of Lord of the Rings. He made it a few chapters in before everybody sensibly stopped him and told him he was ruining the original work. Those chapters have been published in a massive two volume set called The History of the Hobbit.

Tolkien's retconning makes him a harbinger for the modern age of nerd properties, where reboots and retcons are commonplace. They happen almost yearly in comics. In a lot of ways the expansion of The Hobbit into Lord of the Rings is also a harbinger for the modern age, as Tolkien took a children's story and turned it into something much grimmer and much grittier. But even still, he wasn't able to go all the way and change The Hobbit itself; in this day and age the idea of 'aging up' The Hobbit seems absolutely obvious, and completely like something a studio executive would demand. So while Tolkien was ahead of the nerd curve, he was only willing to go so far.
Tolkien retconned his own material, i am perfectly happy with Jackson doing it for the big screen. He has proven to me that he is expert enough in the material. I have no hesitation calling his first trilogy a masterpiece.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,968
214,258
keep in mind that when i read the hobbit i was a little boy in the 70s and the copy i had was an old paperback that belonged to a friend of the family. i dunno when tolkien died, but this movie is the first i have ever heard of erabor. that old paperback copy was at least from the mid to late 60s. i wish i still had it to prove , but it finally fell apart about 10 years ago.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
The Hobbit was written as a standalone novel, The Ring was just an invisibility ring. The Hobbit did so well the publishers begged him for more and after some time of begging and pleading he relented and wrote the hobbit as part of a bigger story. the version i read never mentions that his ring is The Ring and The Necromancer is just that. when bilbo wears the ring he doesnt hear voices or feels any special properties from the ring except invisibility. it was not until LOTR did all this stuff about the will of the ring began being talked about. when Frodo (or bilbo?) asks gandalf why did Bilbo never become affected from all the times he used the ring over his 60 years of wearing it, i think his answer was, "hobbits are made of sterner stuff than they seem or similar comment.

oh and tarrant, please stop whacking it to wolf of wall street for 2 seconds and read my pm. thanks mate.
Yeah but none of us are reading the original edition. The first time I read it was in the 80s and it was well edited.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,968
214,258
Yeah but none of us are reading the original edition. The first time I read it was in the 80s and it was well edited.
i dunno when these edits took place and what was edited in/out, i jut know that the rankin bass cartoon is pretty much spot on for most of the novel i read. there is no mention of sauron or erabor or the one true ring in that cartoon. that rankin bass cartoon took liberties too, but what they embellished was to make things more kid friendly and easier to animate.

im guessing your version of the hobbit was not much different than mine. i think the 80s copies had a yellow cover and the one i had was all white.

and my LOTR books were all white covers as well from the same era.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
Yeah there was no mention of Sauron, only The Necromancer, which we now know was Sauron. No mention of the ring being more than it was other than implication, no one straight out says it. I don't remember Bilbo taking the ring off in Smaug's presence, only when he got back to the tunnel. I haven't reread the book in a few years, though.
 

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
Sauron still isn't mentioned in the most recently edited version, as far as I know. I read this shit in high school for an adventure lit elective I took, so between '03 and '07, so I basically read a different book from you guys from what it sounds like. It was absolutely a prequel to LotR from what I remember.
 

Chesire_sl

shitlord
331
1
Crap now I gotta go look through my collection of tolkien books . See if any have "original" passages in them. One of those impulse buy things I indulge is collecting odd/rare editions of books at yard sales , thrift stores and estate auctions.
 

Chris

Potato del Grande
19,436
-10,733
lol at the ring wanting to go to Smaug. Wasn't Dragonfire the other way to destroy the rings? It was certaintly able to destroy several of the dwarf rings.
 

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
lol at the ring wanting to go to Smaug. Wasn't Dragonfire the other way to destroy the rings? It was certaintly able to destroy several of the dwarf rings.
However, it was said by Gandalf that no dragon's fire would be hot enough to melt the One Ring, not even that of Ancalagon the Black, mightiest known member of that great race.
But yeah, the others could be destroyed by dragonfire.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,968
214,258
Smaug is small potatoes compared to Sauron and his forces. i doubt he would have stood much chance against The Nine. poor smaug, all he really wanted was his pile of gold to sleep on and maybe some dragon bitches with fat dragon tittays
 

Column_sl

shitlord
9,833
7
I read The hobbit as a kid, believe it was my first true book report, and then read it again years later as a teenager following up with Lord of the Rings.

I always enjoyed the Hobbit more then LOTR which I felt had good moments but was bogged down with exposition, and by the time I read the 3rd book I was really done with Tolkiens form of writing.