The Joe Rogan Experience (JRE)

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chaos

chaos

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I dont understand why anyone is excited about any politician, and I dont know what that has to do with so many Florida death row inmates being proven innocent and released, over the objections of a justice system that knows they are innocent and still fights to keep them imprisoned.
 
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Fight

Fight

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Lanx said:
when i was reading about them (cuz of making a muderer) i remember that half the cases they take on, are actually proven guilty with new dna, as in the guy said he didn't do it, but with new dna tech... yes that seamen is yours dude, you lied to us.
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BrutulTM said:
That's not surprising. I wished Joe would have asked them how often they are lied to and if they've ever been fooled.
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Yeah, I wish they would have talked about that as well, but I don't see how it would make their work any less noble.

They are seeking the truth in an imperfect system. On one side you potentially have liars and the other side you have aggressive prosecutors trying to take down the defendants in-front of them. I didn't get the sense that if the DNA evidence showed the person they were trying to exonerate was guilty that they would continue to fight for their freedom. In most cases it sounds like the state is simply unwilling to test the evidence they already have and these guys fight with every resource available to them to make that happen.

How is seeking the truth not a noble endeavor?
 
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Lanx

Lanx

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Fight said:
Yeah, I wish they would have talked about that as well, but I don't see how it would make their work any less noble.

They are seeking the truth in an imperfect system. On one side you potentially have liars and the other side you have aggressive prosecutors trying to take down the defendants in-front of them. I didn't get the sense that if the DNA evidence showed the person they were trying to exonerate was guilty that they would continue to fight for their freedom. In most cases it sounds like the state is simply unwilling to test the evidence they already have and these guys fight with every resource available to them to make that happen.

How is seeking the truth not a noble endeavor?
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imo, they are talking about an entire system of messed up.

they should split it into

1. junk science (which is on the same podcast series they have, only 2 episodes so far, don't bother listening, it's exactly parroting what they said on jre)

2. bad cops, forced confessions, "misplaced evidence", manufactured evidence etc

3. DA shenagins

4. Public defender ineptness

like if you have any one of these factors, you're fucked, 2 or more and it's the perfect storm off = life in jail w/o parole
 
chaos

chaos

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Fight said:
Yeah, I wish they would have talked about that as well, but I don't see how it would make their work any less noble.

They are seeking the truth in an imperfect system. On one side you potentially have liars and the other side you have aggressive prosecutors trying to take down the defendants in-front of them. I didn't get the sense that if the DNA evidence showed the person they were trying to exonerate was guilty that they would continue to fight for their freedom. In most cases it sounds like the state is simply unwilling to test the evidence they already have and these guys fight with every resource available to them to make that happen.

How is seeking the truth not a noble endeavor?
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They talked about one guy on the podcast who there was some indication that he was not innocent, you can probably gauge how they would react from that.

I imagine if you asked them their politics they would tell you that many more people should be freed just due to the state of our judicial and penal system. But at least on the podcast and their website, thats not what you see.
 
Lanx

Lanx

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chaos said:
They talked about one guy on the podcast who there was some indication that he was not innocent, you can probably gauge how they would react from that.

I imagine if you asked them their politics they would tell you that many more people should be freed just due to the state of our judicial and penal system. But at least on the podcast and their website, thats not what you see.
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what? they praise this guy
theappeal.org

Public Defender Chesa Boudin Wins San Francisco D.A. Race In Major Victory For Progressive Prosecutor Movement

theappeal.org theappeal.org

cuz he doesn't prosecute homeless, or drugs or petty theft

anything "non-violent" gets a pass
crime also increased, mostly non-violent offenses. Burglaries shot up the most at 53.6%, with 1,644 reported incidents last year and 2,526 this year. Arson went up 51.4% and motor vehicle thefts saw an overall increase of 27.7%.
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chaos

chaos

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Right, politically I'm sure they're down with that and they talked a lot about cycles of crime and poverty and all of that shit. But The Innocence Project didn't do that, San Francisco did. I bet that same DA fucking hates those guys, their entire shit is just pointing a finger at cops, DA's, and judges. The group, and those guys in their part in it, are about freeing innocent people behind bars. At least according to them, maybe someone has a 20 part youtube documentary about how that's not true.The different problems they talked about, like the presumption of innocence, and justice being applied differently for people with money and without, that's all good shit. But not what the group is about.

Where are those stats coming from? The police's own website is current through June and doesn't show a huge increase, it shows a significant decrease since January.
 
Lanx

Lanx

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listening to this guys podcast, a lot of a criminals are
99% black

yes, i called em criminals b/c while they are "innocent" of the crime they were falsely charged with, they were still career criminals
(i think there was 1 non criminal out of 10 podcasts)

so i find it very difficult to sympathize with them
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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Yeah, some of that stuff gets dicey. Like you hear about a cop planting evidence drugs on somebody which is wrong but then you find out that the guy is a known drug dealer and even though the cops were legally and morally in the wrong, he was definitely guilty of what he got arrested for.
 
chaos

chaos

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Except he wasn't, or if he was we don't know that. We don't, and shouldn't, arrest people for being a "known such and such", he'd have to commit a specific crime and be prosecuted for that crime. If the police can't arrest him without becoming criminals themselves, maybe he isn't as "known" as they thought, or maybe our system is all fucked up.
 
Lanx

Lanx

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chaos said:
Except he wasn't, or if he was we don't know that. We don't, and shouldn't, arrest people for being a "known such and such", he'd have to commit a specific crime and be prosecuted for that crime. If the police can't arrest him without becoming criminals themselves, maybe he isn't as "known" as they thought, or maybe our system is all fucked up.
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whose this "he" youre talkin about? almost everyone on that other podcast i listened to said "ok i'm not an angel, i've done..."
 
chaos

chaos

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In the post directly above mine, the scenario that BrutulTM posted was a guy who has drugs planted on him, and sure the cops are wrong, but we know the guy is guilty anyway. Except he isn't and we don't know that. He states that he is a "known dealer", but that's only known by him and the same organization that just broke the law to put him in jail. What does that even mean, in the context here? When cops are going so far as to plant evidence and falsify testimony, but they tell you "don't worry, he was a known dealer anyway"....
 
Fight

Fight

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It is an awesome one. David Blaine brings it. He is also super down to earth. He does a few stunts, but between those he comes off like a normal dude.

David Blaine is an illusionist, endurance artist, and extreme performer. He is best known for his high-profile feats of endurance and has set and broken several world records. His new special "Ascension" premieres on YouTube live on August 31.
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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chaos said:
Except he wasn't, or if he was we don't know that. We don't, and shouldn't, arrest people for being a "known such and such", he'd have to commit a specific crime and be prosecuted for that crime. If the police can't arrest him without becoming criminals themselves, maybe he isn't as "known" as they thought, or maybe our system is all fucked up.
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Don't be a faggot. I didn't say it was the right thing to do. There's definitely cases though where a cop knows the truth but doesn't have proof of it, so they cheat. The perp is guilty of the crime he was arrested for, he's just too slick for the cops to build a case against. What the cops are doing is wrong, but it could still lead to justice being done. Society shouldn't take the cops word for it obviously, the fact that they can't make a case against someone doesn't mean that they're "innocent" morally even if it does legally.
 
chaos

chaos

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BrutulTM said:
Don't be a faggot. I didn't say it was the right thing to do. There's definitely cases though where a cop knows the truth but doesn't have proof of it, so they cheat. The perp is guilty of the crime he was arrested for, he's just too slick for the cops to build a case against. What the cops are doing is wrong, but it could still lead to justice being done. Society shouldn't take the cops word for it obviously, the fact that they can't make a case against someone doesn't mean that they're "innocent" morally even if it does legally.
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Sure man, all I'm saying is I think it's difficult to tell than you're allowing. The only way to get that knowledge that this dude was somehow guilty and everyone knew but he was just too slick so they had to frame him would be to get that from the same people who framed him. So I'd be immediately suspicious of that, and I'd strongly disagree about calling that justice. Sounds like something you'd see in a movie or an FX cop procedural.
 
chaos

chaos

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Fight said:
It is an awesome one. David Blaine brings it. He is also super down to earth. He does a few stunts, but between those he comes off like a normal dude.

David Blaine is an illusionist, endurance artist, and extreme performer. He is best known for his high-profile feats of endurance and has set and broken several world records. His new special "Ascension" premieres on YouTube live on August 31.
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I checked out of this one early in, Blaine was annoying me with the magical secret shit, why bring up things you can't talk about. I planned to go back and see if it got better though, I heard he does some tricks and fucks Joe up on it.
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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chaos said:
Sure man, all I'm saying is I think it's difficult to tell than you're allowing. The only way to get that knowledge that this dude was somehow guilty and everyone knew but he was just too slick so they had to frame him would be to get that from the same people who framed him. So I'd be immediately suspicious of that, and I'd strongly disagree about calling that justice. Sounds like something you'd see in a movie or an FX cop procedural.
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i don't understand why you keep arguing with me. I mentioned your objections in both of my posts. I have said repeatedly that we can't accept that behavior even if there's technically a good reason for it. All I'm saying is that things aren't black and white in real life.
 
Kiroy

Kiroy

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chaos said:
I checked out of this one early in, Blaine was annoying me with the magical secret shit, why bring up things you can't talk about. I planned to go back and see if it got better though, I heard he does some tricks and fucks Joe up on it.
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latest
 
chaos

chaos

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BrutulTM said:
i don't understand why you keep arguing with me. I mentioned your objections in both of my posts. I have said repeatedly that we can't accept that behavior even if there's technically a good reason for it. All I'm saying is that things aren't black and white in real life.
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I'm just disagreeing with you. I don't agree with the central premise that there's a "good reason" to frame people for crimes, even in the scenario you made up. Or that anything approaching justice can come from that.
 
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