The Matrix reboot/remake

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Arbitrary

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It was a decent script. The basic idea was that once someone becomes The One they only have so much time until the machines adapt and change the Matrix. The previous person to do that was trapped inside when the code changed (that character would become Seraph in the movie we got) so the race is on. Neo's target is a building that represents a central processing unit. His attempts to destroy it are met with the machines using their full power to repair it just as quickly. Smith attacks, Neo flees and the clock is still ticking. There's also a subplot where the machines send Smith to find an Anti-Neo, a human with the same potential that instead will side with the Matrix, and a few other things. Having the second film take place almost right after the first helps add a sense of urgency to everything. We have to go now. No time for a rave in Zion.

It's also mostly devoid of all of the fucking Architect blather and predestination wank. Between the story we got and some of the elements they abandoned I think you could cobble together something a whole lot better than either one. The idea that Neo's is torn between using his full power to attack the machines versus the lives caught in the middle has legs. That's a moral dilemma with no easy answer.
 
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BoozeCube

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I like to pretend that the movies were simply a matrix within the matrix. 2 and 3 end up being less lame with that story.

Also why the fuck didn't someone in Hollywood see Matrix 3 and go holy shit this is what the DBZ movie should be. Instead we got some retard clown show whitebread retard in highschool as goku. That movie made even the Transformers movies look like fucking masterpieces by comparison.
 
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Armadon

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I think the problem with 2 and 3 is that in 1 it's roots are in the philosophical aspects of man and machine with some badass action. 2 and 3 are just action movies with a little philosophy thrown in. It throws you for a loop and that's why people don't like 2 and 3. It was a switch-a-roo.
 
Lanx

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pharmakos said:
i do recommend Jupiter Ascending in a purely intellectual manner, it may be so bad that it can't even be watched in the cheesy B-movie sense, but it's still interesting in the sense of "how the fuck did a final product this awful even end up happening with a budget this big." do a lot of fast forwarding, but i think it DOES need to be experienced at least once for anyone who is interested enough in being disappointed by The Matrix to have read this thread this far.
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movie was so horrible, besides the f script and mila kunis being 10yrs too old and mediocre actress, she at least did ok compared to fucking magic mike and his missle shoes, and they're not the worst actors, theres some guy that is the opitome of OVER acting he was an alien brother (not sean bean).

I do remember it being pretty, but thats just paying off hundreds of special fx guys to make up for the shitty script and shitty acting with eye candy.
 
pharmakos

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Lanx said:
movie was so horrible, besides the f script and mila kunis being 10yrs too old and mediocre actress, she at least did ok compared to fucking magic mike and his missle shoes, and they're not the worst actors, theres some guy that is the opitome of OVER acting he was an alien brother (not sean bean).

I do remember it being pretty, but thats just paying off hundreds of special fx guys to make up for the shitty script and shitty acting with eye candy.
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Yeah man it was pretty, and I used to think that if a movie was pretty enough I would always be able to enjoy it even if the rest sucked, but yeah Jupiter Ascending proved me wrong. Perhaps the worst movie ever.
 
ohkcrlho

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Problems for me were Neo in the 2 was like invincible. So there was no risk, he couldn't be matched.
The fight scenes are wayyy too long. Every movie that has that, I get really bored.
And of course, the architect scene. That is when all went wrong

The 1st movie had a simplicity that was captivating (humans were all living in a vr world and some were fighting back in the real world against the machines).
The only thing I don't like, in any story, is the chosen one or fate trope. It's the laziest writing ever.
Yeah I know... Symbolism Neo, One, Jesus, savior, blablabla

Overall, the Matrix is one of the most iconic movies ever, followed by a shallow sequel.
Oh... There is a 3rd movie right? Lol
 
Mist

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Arbitrary said:
In one of the unused scripts the scene in which Neo fights Smith plays out differently. Instead of all the Smiths just getting up over and over Neo is actually killing them. As the fight goes on the body count gets larger and larger and Smith draws in more and more of the city until it's a goddamn graveyard. Neo realizes how many innocent people are dying and what defeating the machines will cost and bails. His self-imposed exile takes him out of most of the remaining action as he tries to figure out what the fuck he's going to do.
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Yeah that was a thread they left hanging from the first movie, that the people you're trying to save are also potentially the people who are going to fight you the hardest, and anyone is potentially an Agent of the Matrix. They should have kept going with that, but it's very dark and hard to resolve. It also basically justifies terrorism, which is probably not where they wanted to go, as the second and third movie were post 9/11 where the first was pre-9/11, so they left that abandoned.

I don't hate the Smith-as-Virus metaphor they went with though, and I think the final Smith fight defining choice vs choicelessness actually works. Smith was changed, contracted some virus or corrupted programming when Neo connected with him/blew him apart in movie #1, but the corruption gave him new human-like programming but not the power of choice. He did call humans a virus in the first movie.

Most people don't understand the ending of the 3rd movie. The Oracle tells Neo in the second movie that rogue programs can hide, or return to The Source to be deleted. At end of the last Smith vs Neo fight, where Smith has infected the entire Matrix, he sees, using the glasses, that Neo is connected to The Source, and that by infecting Neo, Smith will effectively delete himself, by returning to The Source. But Smith's virus programming is to infect everything, so he can't-not infect Neo. Neo and Smith were perfectly matched and could have fought forever, but Neo realizes that he CAN choose to surrender and let Smith infect him, which will allow The Source to delete Smith. So he chooses to sacrifice himself to save The Matrix, on the promise from The Source that it will build a better Matrix (and allow people to leave if they choose to) and that humans and machines can co-exist. This was a very post-9/11 message.

There's still a bunch of stupid shit in movies 2+3 but they aren't quite as bad as people say they are, and the plot makes more sense than most people think.
 
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jooka

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I remember the first time I saw 2 and 3 being pretty disappointed. I think I saw the original 5 times in the theater bringing friends who hadn't seen it yet each time. Down the road I grew to like 2 and 3 more. Having a 4 seems kinda bleh to me right now but who knows maybe it'll be good. Bringing Neo and Trinity back I just imagine them somehow being the "bad guys" corrupted somehow and then Michael b jordan(or whoever) saves Zion in Matrix #6
 
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Masakari

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The new Matrix is going to be centered around both the Machines and the Humans realizing they are all within a simulation and they team up to fight the Master Entity overseeing it.
 
Gruden

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Masakari said:
The new Matrix is going to be centered around both the Machines and the Humans realizing they are all within a simulation and they team up to fight the Master Entity overseeing it.
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6ijn.jpg
 
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Mist

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OU Ariakas said:
The fucking rave scene ruined it.
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I'm not trying to start an argument but the amount of 'conservatives' I knew in college who had their disgust reflexes :trigger: by that one scene of a bunch of tan people dancing in a cave was very telling. It was like a biological response. That scene barely even registered in my mind on the first or second watch of the movie as anything other than a little filler, but to a letter, every 'conservative' I knew in college specifically mentioned hating the movie because of that specific scene. None of the proto-SJW liberals had any particular reaction to that scene, nor did any of the libertarian free-market types. But traditional conservatives all had this weird problem with that scene, and really struck me that this had to be what people were talking about when they were talking about there being an underlying biological basis for the political ideologies, like some kind of binary switch.
 
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spronk

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jupiter ascending and valerian and the 1000 planets are both movies every sci fi fan has to watch at least once so they know what truly, truly, truly bad scifi movies are
 
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Kiroy

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Mist said:
I'm not trying to start an argument but the amount of 'conservatives' I knew in college who had their disgust reflexes :trigger: by that one scene of a bunch of tan people dancing in a cave was very telling. It was like a biological response. That scene barely even registered in my mind on the first or second watch of the movie as anything other than a little filler, but to a letter, every 'conservative' I knew in college specifically mentioned hating the movie because of that specific scene. None of the proto-SJW liberals had any particular reaction to that scene, nor did any of the libertarian free-market types. But traditional conservatives all had this weird problem with that scene, and really struck me that this had to be what people were talking about when they were talking about there being an underlying biological basis for the political ideologies, like some kind of binary switch.
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you're a fucking liar
 
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OU Ariakas

OU Ariakas

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Mist said:
I'm not trying to start an argument but the amount of 'conservatives' I knew in college who had their disgust reflexes :trigger: by that one scene of a bunch of tan people dancing in a cave was very telling. It was like a biological response. That scene barely even registered in my mind on the first or second watch of the movie as anything other than a little filler, but to a letter, every 'conservative' I knew in college specifically mentioned hating the movie because of that specific scene. None of the proto-SJW liberals had any particular reaction to that scene, nor did any of the libertarian free-market types. But traditional conservatives all had this weird problem with that scene, and really struck me that this had to be what people were talking about when they were talking about there being an underlying biological basis for the political ideologies, like some kind of binary switch.
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It had nothing to do with me being conservative and everything with me thinking that a giant rave to prove how 'alive' they were in the moment was cringey and dumb. This is from someone that loved electronic music (especially Fluke who made the goddam song), is attracted to 'tan' women, and was super apolitical in my college years when that came out.

It was so front and center out of nowhere to have a goddamn musical in the middle of a serious action movie; but I guess I also hate the new cantina song/dance in the remastered Return of the Jedi because I am conservative too.
 
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pharmakos

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Mist said:
Most people don't understand the ending of the 3rd movie. The Oracle tells Neo in the second movie that rogue programs can hide, or return to The Source to be deleted. At end of the last Smith vs Neo fight, where Smith has infected the entire Matrix, he sees, using the glasses, that Neo is connected to The Source, and that by infecting Neo, Smith will effectively delete himself, by returning to The Source. But Smith's virus programming is to infect everything, so he can't-not infect Neo. Neo and Smith were perfectly matched and could have fought forever, but Neo realizes that he CAN choose to surrender and let Smith infect him, which will allow The Source to delete Smith. So he chooses to sacrifice himself to save The Matrix, on the promise from The Source that it will build a better Matrix (and allow people to leave if they choose to) and that humans and machines can co-exist. This was a very post-9/11 message.

There's still a bunch of stupid shit in movies 2+3 but they aren't quite as bad as people say they are, and the plot makes more sense than most people think.
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nah that's still pretty bad
 
Feanor

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Mist said:
Yeah that was a thread they left hanging from the first movie, that the people you're trying to save are also potentially the people who are going to fight you the hardest, and anyone is potentially an Agent of the Matrix. They should have kept going with that, but it's very dark and hard to resolve. It also basically justifies terrorism, which is probably not where they wanted to go, as the second and third movie were post 9/11 where the first was pre-9/11, so they left that abandoned.

I don't hate the Smith-as-Virus metaphor they went with though, and I think the final Smith fight defining choice vs choicelessness actually works. Smith was changed, contracted some virus or corrupted programming when Neo connected with him/blew him apart in movie #1, but the corruption gave him new human-like programming but not the power of choice. He did call humans a virus in the first movie.

Most people don't understand the ending of the 3rd movie. The Oracle tells Neo in the second movie that rogue programs can hide, or return to The Source to be deleted. At end of the last Smith vs Neo fight, where Smith has infected the entire Matrix, he sees, using the glasses, that Neo is connected to The Source, and that by infecting Neo, Smith will effectively delete himself, by returning to The Source. But Smith's virus programming is to infect everything, so he can't-not infect Neo. Neo and Smith were perfectly matched and could have fought forever, but Neo realizes that he CAN choose to surrender and let Smith infect him, which will allow The Source to delete Smith. So he chooses to sacrifice himself to save The Matrix, on the promise from The Source that it will build a better Matrix (and allow people to leave if they choose to) and that humans and machines can co-exist. This was a very post-9/11 message.

There's still a bunch of stupid shit in movies 2+3 but they aren't quite as bad as people say they are, and the plot makes more sense than most people think.
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Smith would have completely infected the matrix, presumably absorbing the Architect as he did the Oracle, then infected the Source had Neo not traveled to the machine city. The machines would have slaughtered mankind then been exterminated themselves in a matter of days or even hours.



"The program Smith has grown beyond your control. Soon he will spread through this city as he did the Matrix. You cannot stop him. But I can."



Neo indeed realizes during the fight he cannot defeat Smith and vice versa. They are evenly matched because they are halves of a whole. At the same moment Smith like the dumb coward he is deep down, becomes afraid. He has seen this before as a calculated variable of all possible outcomes through his eyes (the Oracle's eyes). He tells Neo to get away, frightened. Two things happen here: Neo understands that Neo/Smith, the glitch that created Neo's part machineness and Smith's part humanness, must combine. Smith on the other hand thinks he will win if he absorbs Neo, going on to infect and/or become everything. The Source deletes the glitch instead or more accurately corrects and absorbs it. When Seraph asks the Oracle if she knew all along is important cos it demonstrates her human-like qualities as a machine. She placed a bet on one outcome, measuring chaos and risk as choice.

The metaphors are not bad but as a whole were sloppily executed. Would have dug seeing 2 and 3 go in a less typical direction and do something new instead of retreading the monomyth.
 
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ohkcrlho

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spronk said:
jupiter ascending and valerian and the 1000 planets are both movies every sci fi fan has to watch at least once so they know what truly, truly, truly bad scifi movies are
Click to expand...
Saw the last jedi. Does it count?
 
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