TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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The NSA watches you poop.
- Thread starter Beef Supreme_sl
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Well it can't be because they're handing over confidential user information because you know, companies don't do anything with user information.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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That's a bad way to look at it, the leak came from contracted intelligence, the tech companies don't get to look at their end. the tech companies already own their portion but not the complete web of it.
The meeting with the tech firms is to continue what they've been doing this whole time, taking over private industry resources for NSA use and gain(and whoever is directing the nsa to do this, the nsa is really just concerned with the how, they don't originate the overall plan in many cases. The executive branch authorized this stuff (over decades since atleast Bill Clinton and throughout Bush as well) and is using federal warrants with gag orders to get companies to comply if they don't want to.
The meeting with the tech firms is to continue what they've been doing this whole time, taking over private industry resources for NSA use and gain(and whoever is directing the nsa to do this, the nsa is really just concerned with the how, they don't originate the overall plan in many cases. The executive branch authorized this stuff (over decades since atleast Bill Clinton and throughout Bush as well) and is using federal warrants with gag orders to get companies to comply if they don't want to.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Because terrorist and terrorism are real threats to this country. Youre hell of a lot more likely to be killed by a agent of the state than any would be terrorist.
Better yet, what separates terrorist and terrorism from any loosely organized criminal group?
Furry
🌭🍔🇺🇦✌️SLAVA UKRAINI!✌️🇺🇦🍔🌭
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Straw man city. You attack me, based on an argument I never made. I think regardless of what you do, people will murder innocents. What does giving up freedom have to do with it? Since giving up freedoms has lead to ALL of the biggest mass murders in the history of man kind, logic is soundly on my side.
I think its safe to say with that response you're nothing but a troll. You're obviously just saying stuff to get a reaction and not worthy of further interaction from me.
Jesus Christ. Yea, I strawmaned you, but I wasn't being serious. I was obviously trying to prove a point. You want to talk straw man ? How the fuck does me defending the constitutionality of the intelligence programs = me wanting to turn the U.S. into a police state ? Do you even THINK about the things you say ? Applying your shitty logic, people kill each other anyways, why allow the cops to lock up murderers and surrender our FREEDOMS !?!? Your logic is shit.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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What is government? it's stone and concrete it's run by people, and that's too much power in the hands of a tiny amount of people.
That's a historical condition that allows all the worst things about police states to happen, concentrated power.
One of the beautiful ways about the manner in which glenn greenwald/snowden is slowly releasing the information over time instead of dumping it all at once is, That It forces them(anyone who benefits or ok'd it since the start) to take positions. Before this the secrecy of the whole project meant they didn't have to, and what we are finding out thanks to the Internets ability to look up specific quotes from officials (which is why it's important to atleast read the official spokesman point of view to get an insight into their thinking) is that many of them, like anyone who put a signature on any of this stuff tried lying.
They lied about all senators and congressman being aware of what is going on, many have publically stated they found out because of the newspapers. some who ask for data are denied by comittee members, to the point they wouldn't even reveal who voted to deny the access on the committee because it was "secret"
They lied that "only meta data" was being collected.
I mean they've been in retreat mode and in damage control mode since the start of this.
Even less people have the ability to launch global nuclear war. I'd say the power to bring about Armageddon trumps the power to go all peeping Tom on your emails.
And by the way, if you or anyone thinks the program should be more open, more transparent, or more fortified against the possibility of abuse, I'm on board. But lets not kid ourselves, it's not going anywhere.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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Same reason nation states don't use Nuclear weapons,deterrence.
Deterrence mind you reinforces the idea that individuals can go bad and that fallible leaders could drag everyone to nuclear winter, The idea is/was to frame the reality to the other side that using nuclear weapons would be the worst thing possible for themselves. Because even politicians can become and act very crazed and irrational regarding war.
There's no such deterrence with nsa spying.
Deterrence mind you reinforces the idea that individuals can go bad and that fallible leaders could drag everyone to nuclear winter, The idea is/was to frame the reality to the other side that using nuclear weapons would be the worst thing possible for themselves. Because even politicians can become and act very crazed and irrational regarding war.
There's no such deterrence with nsa spying.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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No idea bro, I'll bring it up as a point of order at the next Stonecutters meeting right after we keep the Martians under wraps.
ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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Get the metric system out of the country while you guys are at it, it's getting ridiculous.
Tarrant
<Prior Amod>
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Yes yes, I know SSL isn't some magic bullet that makes email unreadable by all third parties. It DOES, however, make it unreadable to your ISP when you access your gmail. ISP might also include wifi hotspots and such. My point was that using SSL is basically saying 'I desire privacy and expect a certain level of it'. Incidentally it is WAY WAY past time for a new email protocol.
'There is no such thing as privacy' is a hyperbolic statement. Properly employed end-to-end encryption is unbreakable. Online banking is feasible and mundane. Traffic analysis is a concern for people under heavy scrutiny, but using a VPN or Tor is going to protect you from wide scale dragnets and data collecting. Good luck figuring out which sites I'm visiting using my VPN in Switzerland that shares IPs while I'm downloading binaries at a megabit/s. Of course the VPN provider could have received an NSL demanding the installation of government malware or request SSL keys, but subscribing to a provider in a country that doesn't bend over for the USA would make that much less likely. It is certainly MUCH easier to protect your privacy from non-state actors.
Of course the entire argument here is that we would like the government to give back our privacy to begin with.
Dianne Feinstein is the most dangerous woman in America and my least favorite Senator. I say this as a liberal. Her attacks on the first amendment aren't new.
Ever more knee-jerk laws passed after a tragedy that don't even solve the problem. It'll be gone if it ever gets to the SCOTUS though; they don't use it enough to get it there.Wikipedia_sl said:
Feinstein also co-sponsored a freakin' constitutional amendment to make flag desecration illegal. Nice priorities there.
You're the one who replied to me, dude.
And ethics and law are not the same thing, but morality is the driver for what becomes law and what gets repealed. Ethics matter.
I want the government to have to get a 'super warrant' as the eff put it to wiretap INDIVIDUALS BY NAME and then serve that warrant to Google, Facebook, etc who give the data to law enforcement like the good 'ol days instead of the NSA installing hardware at AT&T and examining literally every single packet going through internet backbones and installing backdoors that defeat the encryption used for every single user for all the big tech companies and storing the data they collect in massive data centers.
The NSA isn't just collecting metadata. Read The Guardian.
Yes, they are moving forward BECAUSE of the Snowden leaks. You're not reading what you are replying to or you are trolling.
'Everyone' doing something doesn't make it right. Furthermore, the government has more restrictions than private entities. The Bill of Rights are a list of things the GOVERNMENT cannot do. Private entities can fire employees for saying things the government cannot jail you for saying.
Hell I'm not even concerned for myself, personally. I'm concerned for the next MLK, the next Harvey Milk, the next Aaron Swartz, government watchdog journalists, etc. You're deluded if you think the government doesn't go after people who attack the status quo, or want to make examples of people, or just employs some asshole prosecutor that wants to make a name for himself. Nixon was uniquely stupid enough to record what he did; you think his kind of shit stopped with him?
The government isn't 'protecting my ass from terrorists'-- they are CREATING the terrorists through their terrible foreign policies. Nor do they need these surveillance dragnets to catch them. Regardless, here is a risk assessment for you:
Even putting safety and civil liberties aside, these programs aren't even worth the dollars wasted on them.reason.com_sl said:
Oh I'm wrong am I? Since you didn't read the link, I'll paste the relevant quote:
The point I made was that you said (I'm paraphrasing) 'these programs are only used to catch terrorists' in one sentence, then in the very next sentence you said 'the real problem is the hiding where evidence came from', apparently being unaware that the recent news about the intelligence origin laundering is from the DEA hiding the fact they got it from the NSA.eff.org_sl said:
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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VPN doesn't provide encryption beyond their point of presence. And TOR has been hacked, has been shown to be vulnerable. And traffic analysis... well, I don't even read most of this NSA shit and I know enough to know that the NSA is a hell of a lot better at it than you portray here. There really is no such thing as privacy. Even accessing your gmail: you have an encrypted view into your mailbox, but anything you send or receive outside of Google's servers is in the clear. I don't know, I only point it out in case someone is reading this and thinking "Yeah he's right, I use gmail so I'm good." No one is good, if we're assuming the capabilities and abuses of the NSA are real.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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khalid
Unelected Mod
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The issue is that people like Soysauce (and maybe you?) argue that we shouldn't have an expectation of privacy online. Yet the only real violations of that are the NSA (real or imagined)(private companies are quite different, as many of us have mentioned) abuses. So are you really arguing that these searches shouldn't require warrants based on us now having no expectation of privacy because the NSA can read them?
It seems like you are arguing that if we discovered tomorrow that the NSA had bugged every person's bathroom, it is constitutional, based on how we shouldn't have any expectation of privacy in the bathroom since the NSA is spying on us there!
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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No, I'm not saying any of that. I'm just saying people shouldn't assume that they have found a solution. So far every "solution" has been found vulnerable. I do believe that our private communications should come with an expectation of privacy. I'm also saying that we should all be realistic adults and realize that anything we do online is potentially vulnerable to interception or whatever.