The NSA watches you poop.

chaos

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The only people that should have a reasonable expectation of privacy are tech security experts. No one else should be able to send private E-Mails or make private phone calls to their wives, because terrorists.

Hasn't that been your stances since Day 1, Chaos? You have nothing to hide and your tranny porn collection is so good it should be shared so the NSA is welcome to everything - at which point who cares about encryption? If you're encrypting things, you have things to hide and are worthy of extra scrutiny.
I'm sure I never said anything like that. Project much bro?
 

chaos

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I actually really like that first article for taking of some of the misreporting on this issue. The reason this is of key importance to me is mostly because this is my field so it i interesting. But it also is A: proven and B: represents a pretty dramatic departure for the NSA when it comes to the cryptography industry. They have always played a supporting role for US companies, testing and strengthening products, sharing potential vulnerabilities and weaknesses with US companies to shore up products intended for American use. This shit is definitely not that.
 

fanaskin

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"why? Because we are lazy and hate oversight"
Surveillance-court judges oppose White House groups NSA proposals - The Washington Post

Current and former judges on the nation's secret surveillance court said in a letter released Tuesday that several recommendations made by a White House review group would significantly increase the court's workload and undermine its effectiveness.
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The judges' principal objections focused on recommendations to appoint an independent privacy advocate to represent the public's interests before the court and on a proposal that administrative subpoenas, known as national security letters, be approved by the court before being issued. They also objected to a recommendation to end the National Security Agency's bulk collection of data on Americans' phone calls.
 

fanaskin

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I spent two hours talking with the NSA. Here's what they had to say (Wired UK)

The dual mission of the NSA generates cognitive dissonance. Right on its home page, the NSA says its core missions are "to protect US national security systems and to produce foreign signals intelligence information." The officials repeatedly claimed they pursue both responsibilities with equal vigor. There's a built-in conflict here: if US industries distribute strong encryption throughout the world, it should make the NSA's signals-gathering job much harder. Yet the NSA says it welcomes encryption. (The officials even implied that the tension between the two missions winds up making both efforts more robust.) Nonetheless, the Snowden leaks indicate that the NSA has engaged in numerous efforts that tamper with the security of American products. The officials resisted this characterisation. Why, they asked, would they compromise security of products they use themselves, like Windows, Cisco routers, or the encryption standards they allegedly compromised?
They believe their intelligence gathering is palatable because it's controlled by laws, regulations, and internal oversight. Looking at the world through their eyes, there is no privacy threat in collecting massive amounts of information -- if access to that information is rigidly controlled and minimalised. This includes efforts to excise data (about Americans, mainly) that should have not been collected in the first place. The NSA feels that if people knew about these controls, they'd be OK with the collection. This argument reminded me of something I learned from my approved NSA source in the 1990s. The official who concocted the Clipper Chip scheme had a vision where private citizens could use encryption. But the NSA, though its built-in backdoor chip, would be able to access the information when it needed to. The official called his vision "Nirvana." The NSA is still envisioning Nirvana, this time a system with huge haystacks accessed only when national security is at stake. But many people believe the very creation of those government-owned haystacks is a privacy violation, and possibly unconstitutional.
 

chaos

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Obama gave his NSA regulation speech. I just don't get it, why are we even talking about phone records given the scope of the rest of this shit?
 

Malakriss

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Because it's the only truly domestic piece? If it's foreign it's all you can eat. How many other countries would go "Oh my bad, dude we won't spy on the President or Congress any more"
 

JVIRUS

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If there is so much data gathering and virtually any device can be monitored, how the fuck are there still so many gang bangers and corner boys openly dealing via constant phone use. Is it too hard to find evidence on disposable or stolen phones? These fucks kill someone every week or two and just burn a house down if they suspect it's being monitored IE Rochester NY has over double the national violent and property crime rates and national data gathering policies haven't done shit. Do Fed agencies simply not share the data with anyone, ever? Not even with the DHS?

The gang influence is so blatant I am surprised the FBI doesn't swarm this city weekly, I mean these dudes walk around and have the name of their mega gang tattoo'd on their fucking chests. "FBI using data gathering blah blah blah able to stop murderers in one of the most violent cities in America!" would look nice as headline, right? Instead the feds are watching me poop, crime in this city is unchanged, and a brand new FLEET of homeland security drones drive around in SUVs constantly doing fuck all.
 

chaos

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Because it's the only truly domestic piece? If it's foreign it's all you can eat. How many other countries would go "Oh my bad, dude we won't spy on the President or Congress any more"
But it isn't, really. The encryption stuff, the malware, the intrusion into US companies, there are tons of pieces here that have domestic impact. Not that I expect, or even want, for them to shut down all of these programs but the idea that they are intercepting laptops en route to their destination and exploiting them and we're talking about phone records, it seems a little bit retarded.
 

fanaskin

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But it isn't, really. The encryption stuff, the malware, the intrusion into US companies, there are tons of pieces here that have domestic impact. Not that I expect, or even want, for them to shut down all of these programs but the idea that they are intercepting laptops en route to their destination and exploiting them and we're talking about phone records, it seems a little bit retarded.
it would be insane and impossible for him to continue the program and deal with all those issues at the same time it would be really hard to make people feel statisfied, so my guess is that he simplified it by taking the original offending issue the "meta data" and constructed the presented narrative around that.
 

Jozu

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Just wanted to comment on the gang post and try to provide some insight.

Its kind of difficult to get the permission to tap a civilians phone even if you do believe he is selling drugs at a high rate. A judge must support your claim, and sign off on it, EVERY TIME. Second, most drug dealers with more than a peanut for a brain use coded talk. Its pretty simple really, and once his customers get schooled on it, it becomes even more difficult. Lasty, drug activity is confined to certain "areas". These spots are usually predetermined and provide the dealer and user with a buffer zone. (ex. a trap house on a dead end street, a trap house upstairs from a bar or place of business, which masks drug traffic)

A lot of the more dangerous dealers arent really even drug dealers. Drug dealers work for them, but they arent actually touching shit. That makes everything even more complicated. Then, you have the court system which is basically based on currency. If you have 24 racks t pay a superlawyer, chances are you are getting off on any drug related charge the state managed to charge you with (unless its a high profile case).
 

JVIRUS

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Ah that makes sense Joz. I figured it was not nearly so easy to just crucify someone even if mostly everything is monitored these days.

It's frustrating to see the bangers walk about unconcerned with the law, meanwhile the 'dont tread on me' nuts are losing their minds over the losses in internet privacy---perhaps they shouldn't be so worried. If law enforcement responds to internet transgressions the way that they do to blatantly violent criminals I don't think we have much to worry about with the NSA snooping.
 

Numbers_sl

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Maybe it's because I don't really know how the internet works. but from the first time I went online I just assumed that anyone with any knowledge could tell what I was doing at any given time. Granted there is no context and you don't know who (perhaps multiple people) was there browsing or posting, but I still don't get the big deal about snooping. The only concern I have is what the metadata is used for sans context or knowing really who was on the other end of an internet session or telephone call. If its used by retards outside of an actual case for their own ends, then I would guess there is a problem going on, otherwise I still don't have a problem with data collection if it is useful in some way.
 

Borzak

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The only obvious answer is for everyone to email and text each other all the words on the watch list endlessly until the entire system implodes from data overload. We need a contact in the middle east to make millions of throw away emails to bounce them off of as well.
 

Grim1

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ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
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Maybe it's because I don't really know how the internet works. but from the first time I went online I just assumed that anyone with any knowledge could tell what I was doing at any given time. Granted there is no context and you don't know who (perhaps multiple people) was there browsing or posting, but I still don't get the big deal about snooping. The only concern I have is what the metadata is used for sans context or knowing really who was on the other end of an internet session or telephone call. If its used by retards outside of an actual case for their own ends, then I would guess there is a problem going on, otherwise I still don't have a problem with data collection if it is useful in some way.
Shit. Is this Numbers first post that isn't a link to a news article or blatant trolling?