The NSA watches you poop.
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AladainAF
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I am actually very surprised at the amount of people defending this.
When the patroit act was signed into law, many on FoH were screaming about how LIBRARY BOOK RECORDS would be reviewed by the government and how much of a horrible thing this was. I defended that, saying that it wasn't a big deal. I still don't think questioning someone who checks out 50 books on how to build bombs, or other such things is a bad thing. But as this has gone on and on, it's gotten worse and worse to where I can sit back and say "This is wrong, it's gone too far". Yet, those same people who were herp derping about library book records are (mostly) quite content with whats going on today, even though what's going on today is far, far, far, far more invasive than anything back then.
It's disgusting. Privacy is gone, and at this point it's up to the citizens to either stand up against it, or be complicit. Even Republicans and Democrats alike are in lock step with this one in Washington, and what is all this for anyway? The war on terror which Obama himself has already said is over. Or is it to prevent terrorism on our own soil, which has killed what... 3,000 people or so in the last 15 years? Sure it's tragic but 3,000 people over 15 years, and this is what we feel we need to do?
It's a critical turning point in our civilization. It really is. I sure hope people will stand up, we won't get that chance much longer.
When the patroit act was signed into law, many on FoH were screaming about how LIBRARY BOOK RECORDS would be reviewed by the government and how much of a horrible thing this was. I defended that, saying that it wasn't a big deal. I still don't think questioning someone who checks out 50 books on how to build bombs, or other such things is a bad thing. But as this has gone on and on, it's gotten worse and worse to where I can sit back and say "This is wrong, it's gone too far". Yet, those same people who were herp derping about library book records are (mostly) quite content with whats going on today, even though what's going on today is far, far, far, far more invasive than anything back then.
It's disgusting. Privacy is gone, and at this point it's up to the citizens to either stand up against it, or be complicit. Even Republicans and Democrats alike are in lock step with this one in Washington, and what is all this for anyway? The war on terror which Obama himself has already said is over. Or is it to prevent terrorism on our own soil, which has killed what... 3,000 people or so in the last 15 years? Sure it's tragic but 3,000 people over 15 years, and this is what we feel we need to do?
It's a critical turning point in our civilization. It really is. I sure hope people will stand up, we won't get that chance much longer.
Doesnt buying a prepaid cell phone with cash completely fuck up their system of data tracking? Or is it feasible to try and find single person's conversations out of that sea of data with voice-recognition software?
BoldW
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It is because a) they've clearly stated what they do with that information b) they are held by laws and regulations in place c) I have recourse to take them to task should they go against ourAgreement.Basically, there is accountability and transparency.If it's just a matter of having our information, yes, I trust public companies more than a multitude of government projects that are shrouded in secrecy. Also, in a free market system, in addition to the above, I get to choose what I feel is the right balance between my privacy and the convenience of a product. These NSA programs do not give me any of that. There is no choice.
If the government were forthcoming and clear about how the data is collected, how it is used, as well as about the systems in place to curb abuse and provide oversight, this may be a completely different story. The fact is the government doesn't want you to know anything about their data collections. That's a huge difference.
When I go to download the new iTunes, the EULA isn't grayed out with a big [CLASSIFIED] watermark over it. If it were, I could chose not to participate.
No, see youDON'Tget to say that. We fucking told you all years ago that this shit would happen. And you and your Republican buddies all wrapped yourselves in American flags, screamed "9/11 NEVAR FORGET!" in our faces and told us to fuck off if we didn't like it. The reason why we arn't mad is because we have had the time to process this and realize the implications long before you all decided to join reality.
We warned you that you couldn't put this genie back in the bottle once you let it out but you all didn't give a fuck and went full retard with the Patriot Act. Well guess what, now were all good and fucked. Congratulations!
BoldW
Molten Core Raider
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Nah. It's on its way.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/ny...bout.html?_r=0
They're nothing if not thorough.
I agree.
However, I thought the same thing when I watched the controlled demolition of the WTC and the bank bailouts. I hope this will galvanize the plebs, but I'm not holding my breath.
AladainAF
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That's well and dandy, and if you want to jump on me for being a supporter of the Patroit Act at the time, that's fine. I certainly deserve, and explect some blowback from it. But there are MANY people like you who, despite being anti-Patroit Act, are perfectly fine with what's going on today. That's my issue.
Also, there are many laws that can be abused. The Patroit act is no different. But you even have the original author of the act saying "What the fuck is going on here?" should be a sure-fire signal that the line has been crossed, and I don't think its as simple as pointing to that single act as the reason.
Asshat Brando
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Based on previous post history it's an established fact that David Simon is smarter than the majority of people posting in this thread combined. I'll go with his opinion that as long as oversight is in place then it's just part and parcel of the technology that we have these days.
That's a big motherfucking IF.
I don't trust ANYONE with the keys to the kingdom. Our government has created and opened Pandora's Box.
Hahaha, so you think a EULA keeps a company honest?! No, its the laws that are put in place and enforced by the government. So very ironic isn't it, the people you claim to not trust are the only ones there to protect you. Like so many hypocrites nowadays, you fear/hate the government yet want them around to save you whenever is convenient for you. You trust businesses who screw you yet fear those you can at least influence.
Asshat Brando
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And as he's noting if you're whole family gets blown away by a dune coon and you find out after the fact that it could have been prevented if these programs would have been in place you would still be against said programs? Maybe you're the 1% that would still be against them but the majority of Americans would be fucking outraged.
Our government's working theory that you can stop terror before it happens is a fallacy. In fact, it is the very same WAR ON TERROR, that perpetuates the WAR ON TERROR. I would be upset about it, but it furthers the military-industrial complex, so it's not like I didn't see it coming. Still though, seeing it laid bare is quite troubling.
Oblig:
iannis
Musty Nester
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yeah. And Goldman Sachs would never intentionally sell bad investments to their own clients. That would undermine their reputation and be contrary to their self interest. Even if they did for some unknowable reason do such a thing then Congress would bust their balls so hard no one would think about committing that sort of fraud for the next 20 years. Oh wait.
I mean it's a nice theory about accountability and ethics and all.
I mean it's a nice theory about accountability and ethics and all.
Asshat Brando
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Has anyone in the government ever claimed that they can prevent all terrorist actions by these programs? Just the same as your local PD takes what they learn from past crimes and applies it to prevent future ones where possible I'm assuming this is the same. If anything you should be outraged that there are no protections for us posting here but then again considering the popularity of Facebook, Instagram and the like I doubt the majority of people really even care.
Dyvim
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Isn't it kinda sad that US citizens are up in arms about defending the 2nd amandment (yeah pun inteded) but are perfectly fine when the 4th is slowly flushed in the shitter as long as its sold as war on terror and all are able to play call of duty 451?! Oh brave new world we live in!
BoldW
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No, but I have a choice not to purchase those products if I want. I have recourse if they stop being honest. None of that applies to the government in this case.
And yes, I expect the government to SERVE ME and all other citizens.
And the whole "if one person's life could be saved" BS is just retarded. People who spout it are in fact retarded. If we should be giving up our rights and civil liberties for safety, then I expect you to support all alcohol and tobacco sales be banned, McDonalds might as well just shut their doors down now, and start biking to work, because no more automobiles, you'll get guns being banned so only criminals have/make them, and knives...well, knives are deadly. Video games have been proven to incite violence, so no more of that either. It's what needs to be done in today's age, according to you.At what point short of being locked in a cell for your own, and your family's, good do you say hold on a sec, you've gone to far!?
Again, let me reiterate...I want to know what they're doing and how. I don't think this should be secret. I want a say in what my government does. I know it's a shocking proposition for those who blindly follow great marketing campaigns.
"If a life can be saved" is bullshit, because I might not feel that giving up my rights is worth it. I believe this country has a grand tradition of dying for their, and other peoples' rights.
Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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That sounds great and all, but no one is going to do shit about it. We all live comfortable lives. We're not going to throw that shit away to start an uprising against the government. It's, once again, a situation where one person can't change shit. So why bother complaining about it? Just keep on chugging along.
Sure, I could go out and start protesting or whatever. Or even something more violent. But I'm just one guy, and I'm certainly not going to inspire other people to join the cause. So now I'm labelled a domestic terrorist...go me? What the fuck is the point?
fanaskin
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SCHUMER, CORNYN: PREPAID CELL PHONES HELP TERRORISTS LIKE TIMES SQUARE BOMBER EVADE DETECTION
I'm not saying it's not true it is true but the assumption is always restrict freedom to fix the problem.
Terrorism is the #1 threat to humanity and civilization, a near infinite social value must be placed on the prevention terrorism.
? You are 17,600 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack
? You are 12,571 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack
? You are 11,000 times more likely to die in an airplane accident than from a terrorist plot involving an airplane
? You are 1048 times more likely to die from a car accident than from a terrorist attack
?You are 404 times more likely to die in a fall than from a terrorist attack
? You are 87 times more likely to drown than die in a terrorist attack
? You are 13 times more likely to die in a railway accident than from a terrorist attack
?You are 12 times more likely to die from accidental suffocation in bed than from a terrorist attack
?You are 9 times more likely tochoke to death on your own vomit than die in a terrorist attack
?You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist
?You are 8 times more likely to die from accidental electrocution than from a terrorist attack
? You are 6 times more likely to die from hot weather than from a terrorist attack