The Orville

pharmakos

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eliminating her need to collect the ship in the first place and the portal being destroyed AFTER the fate of the ship had already been altered

but if she never had a reason to go to the past in the first place, then she would have never been able to save the ship from the dark matter storm. if closing the wormhole altered things in the new timeline at all, then it should have altered it completely. doesn't make any sense to have her disappear but have her actions and everyone else's memories of her stay...
 

Pyksel

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but if she never had a reason to go to the past in the first place, then she would have never been able to save the ship from the dark matter storm. if closing the wormhole altered things in the new timeline at all, then it should have altered it completely. doesn't make any sense to have her disappear but have her actions and everyone else's memories of her stay...

I think you're forgetting that with Pria not needing to collect the Orville, she wouldn't have lured them into the dark matter storm to begin with, thus the Orville would have steered clear.
 

pharmakos

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I think you're forgetting that with Pria not needing to collect the Orville, she wouldn't have lured them into the dark matter storm to begin with, thus the Orville would have steered clear.

she explains in the episode that she targets ships that were going to be destroyed if she didn't time travel. it was their way of avoiding altering the history -- only taking stuff that would be wrecked anyway. they were going to hit the dark matter storm anyway.

besides, even if things had been the way you said, you would still have an impossible paradox... if she never showed up, then they would have never known the time portal existed, and therefore would not have destroyed it, which means she would have still been able to travel to the past and cause the whole thing to happen.
 

Palum

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I think you're forgetting that with Pria not needing to collect the Orville, she wouldn't have lured them into the dark matter storm to begin with, thus the Orville would have steered clear.

Well no because if we're to believe her statements they went into there anyway, she led them there after the rescue to "not alter the timeline" so that presumably whatever forensic analysis is possible would result in the same conclusion "they went there and didn't come out guess they dead".

The time travel thing is fine. It's simplistic but whatever.
 

Pyksel

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she explains in the episode that she targets ships that were going to be destroyed if she didn't time travel. it was their way of avoiding altering the history -- only taking stuff that would be wrecked anyway. they were going to hit the dark matter storm anyway.

besides, even if things had been the way you said, you would still have an impossible paradox... if she never showed up, then they would have never known the time portal existed, and therefore would not have destroyed it, which means she would have still been able to travel to the past and cause the whole thing to happen.

Agreed that it was a paradox and something I pointed out in my original response. This is also where writers get into the liberties of alternate timelines since we know time travel isn't a real science yet.

We know the Orville was destined to be destroyed when it entered the dark matter field. We know Pria enters the wormhole sometime around 2900 to go back into the past to save the ship. When she does this, she sets into motion a chain of events that leads to the Orville surviving and as a result, the wormhole is destroyed.

At this point we are dealing with at least 2 timelines, the one where the Orville is destroyed and one where the Orville destroys the wormhole.

Once the wormhole is destroyed, the convergence of these two timelines becomes impossible. This means Pria can no longer exist in the past because there is no wormhole in the future for her to enter (of this timeline). Thus, she disappears.

The paradox comes into play because the Orville can't just disappear right, because if it does, then the wormhole remains open and we're back to it eventually becoming destroyed. This means we're left with outcomes that you could consider logical.

1. Everything resets, Pria never arrives in the past, and the Orville is eventually destroyed. This basically hits a recurring infinite loophole where the Orville destroys wormhole, Orville is destroyed, Orville is saved, etc.
2. The outcome we got which was probably far easier for the writers to create and the viewers to digest on a show like this is the ship was saved because of Pria never arriving in the past because she can't in the future she created.

My point still stands that it really is a great show and I thought they handled the episode with a bit of finesse when it came to time travel. That being said, you stated it was really bad and I would certainly be open to hear what would have been a better ending or explanation.
 

pharmakos

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I suppose I'm more picky than most when it comes to time travel stories. The only way time travel makes sense to me is if travelling to the past creates an alternate timeline. But even that (the world in which Pria keeps existing after the wormhole is destroyed) violates thermodynamics, since there would suddenly be extra matter (Pria's mass) in the universe...

Time travel is probably impossible in reality and I should probably quit being such a nerd and just sit back and enjoy sci-fi attempts at including it as a plot device.
 

ShakyJake

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I suppose I'm more picky than most when it comes to time travel stories. The only way time travel makes sense to me is if travelling to the past creates an alternate timeline. But even that (the world in which Pria keeps existing after the wormhole is destroyed) violates thermodynamics, since there would suddenly be extra matter (Pria's mass) in the universe...

I agree, I think non paradoxical time travel can only exist if time travelers create alternate time lines upon their arrival. What should have happened, after the Orville destroyed the wormhole, is that Pria would've been stranded there.
 
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Palum

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I agree, I think non paradoxical time travel can only exist if time travelers create alternate time lines upon their arrival. What should have happened, after the Orville destroyed the wormhole, is that Pria would've been stranded there.

Yes this would have been better imo

Also the fact that it would have been lulzy revenge
 
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Asshat wormie

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The need for a new time line created requires an assumption that there is some main time line that has been altered. What if all possibile time lines existed at the same time? Then altering the past would just shift the observer from one existing time line to another. Ezpz.
 

Drakain

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How do we know Pria didn't lie and tell them they were supposed to be destroyed to make them feel better? The dark matter storm could be the go to excuse for every ship she hijacks.
 
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Lenardo

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Rofl, it's a show, stop analyzing....

She could control the entire ship's functions with that black box..whats to say that....the dark matter storm was a "simulation" she created in "admin" mode and all the damage was just a war game simulation....

I thought - personally- that the way they handled it was fine..it was the "back to the future" style of the paradox....supposed timeline "OG" ---ship gets "destroyed" via the dark matter storm.

timeline "Pria" - ship gets "destroyed" via the dark matter storm- however, she traveled back in time, saved ship, stole the ship flew to the future via the wormhole transfered everyone from the orville to the 29th century- ship stays in future-thus "OG" timeline is satisfied with everyone being "dead" and no ship

Who is to say that the "original" timeline was correct? maybe the correct "OG" timeline was that ship was stolen by Pria.

timeline "ED" - Isaac gets control of ship back, fly BACK thru wormhole, destroy wormhole, since wormhole is gone everything from that point on precludes Pria from being able to travel back in time to steal the ship, thus creating a new Timeline where the ship and everyone survive to have more adventures.

and i Agree Isaac's Prank was Awesome....
 

Chris

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Sounded like Issac, being from a more advanced society, understood time travel better than Pria did, even with her future knowledge.

What she said about how it works isn't nessesarily how it actually works.

The Captain says something at the end about Issac figuring out collapsing the wormhole will do something quantum and choose a timeline.

As long as time travel isn't retconning things core to the plot you don't really need to explain it that much. The only timetravelly thing was her vanishing at the end and she could have just as easily taken a shuttle back so it didn't change the plot.
 

Shmoopy

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Just started watching this on demand. It's better than ST-D.

It's like The Next Next Generation.
 
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Hoss

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nah. Timeloops were nonsense.
I mean, she even "back to the future" vanished... becuase she no longer had a reason to go back to the past. but... the teleporter she had, stayed. all her actions in the past still occurred...
They should have kept her around, stuck in this past, new timeline.

I think the teleporter stayed, but I noticed he didn't actually look at it again.

I can only think of 2 ways that ending makes sense.
1. If the worm hole being gone means she's never born. After all, that's what the BTTF vanish was, right? He was stopping himself from existing. Maybe she comes from a long line of worm hole exploiters, and without the wormhole her family isn't successful.

2. If we see pria again and find out she just teleported away.

Isaac=Data

Speaking of this. Does anyone else think the guy playing issac must be doing a data impersonation? The first episode I thought that was brent spiner.
 

Vycron

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Does anyone else think the guy playing issac must be doing a data impersonation? The first episode I thought that was brent spiner.

That was driving me crazy the first couple of episodes. I thought it was Brett Spiner or even Robert Picardo at times. It wouldn't have surprised me considering the Star Trek bonifides this show has. Finally had to check it out and it turns out to be just some dude.
 
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Reht

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That was driving me crazy the first couple of episodes. I thought it was Brett Spiner or even Robert Picardo at times. It wouldn't have surprised me considering the Star Trek bonifides this show has. Finally had to check it out and it turns out to be just some dude.
English dude on top of that, so not only does he actually sound a lot like Spiner but he also does a great job masking his accent.
 

Void

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Yeah, I told a friend that if you close your eyes it is hard to tell it isn't Data. I noticed that immediately because I wasn't watching the first time he came on screen, just listening.