Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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The Paranormal, UFO's, and Mysteries of the Unknown
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Void
BAU BAU
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Wow, I see I missed a barn burner last night.
I don't want to speak for Chuk or put words in his mouth, so I might be wrong, but I think his problem with some of you is the same as mine. If you don't believe that those are mundane objects misinterpreted by humans or instrumentation, or fakes, or drones, or whatever...what do you think they are? Tell us, straight out. It isn't enough to tell him that he's retarded or stupid or has no idea what he's talking about. If you don't agree with Chuk and me, you must believe one of the following options:
a) it is aliens piloting alien craft;
b) it is humans piloting recovered/gifted alien craft;
c) it is humans piloting heretofore unknown advanced human craft.
(And when I say piloting, that includes remote piloting ie. drones)
So which are each of you? And why? What evidence leads you to support your choice?
My evidence, since you might ask, is a combination of Occam's Razor and Common Sense. There has never been credible evidence of aliens or alien technology existing. There has never been credible evidence of humans making these specific breakthroughs in technology. While there is also not enough evidence to conclusively prove the theories in Chuk's videos, in the absence of any other evidence, it fits the best IN MY OPINION.
Many of you will use the fact that we can't conclusively prove our stance any more than the other ones as ammunition to bolster those other options. That is where common sense comes in. I don't have a kid, but imagine that you come home and there is a big piece of cake missing. You ask what happened. The kid tells you that xhe has no idea, maybe someone broke into the house and ate it. Lacking any conclusive evidence, that COULD be the truth. But the more likely truth is, obviously, that the kid ate it. That's what we have here. You guys are saying that a burglar ate it, because you want to believe cake-eating-burglars (CEBs for short) exist, and claiming that since we don't know for sure, your conclusion has just as much merit as the one where the kid ate it.
Moreover, since the kid down the street was also trying to get away with eating cake, he started telling stories about CEBs, then others started posting about CEBs on the internet, and other kids started tossing their accounts of CEBs into the hat because it was fun or a troll or they genuinely believed that it happened and wanted to get in on the hype, now any kid can point to the internet and say, "See, CEBs are real! Why else would there be so many posts and articles and blurry pictures of them?? There are whole websites and YouTube channels devoted to studying them!!" And look, the government just admitted that they are tracking all CEB sightings! Navy personnel saw CEBs themselves! They exist! And any time there is concrete evidence of a kid eating cake, CEB proponents say that still doesn't prove that all CEB sightings are fake. Despite the fact that there was never, and never has been, any actual evidence of CEBs, and many CEB claims are proven false, the possibility of CEBs still exists. Even though common sense says that the more likely answer is that it was kids eating cake, there are things that COULD be CEBs, so they are going to believe in them.
So come on, just tell us, are you a, b, or c? And why?
I don't want to speak for Chuk or put words in his mouth, so I might be wrong, but I think his problem with some of you is the same as mine. If you don't believe that those are mundane objects misinterpreted by humans or instrumentation, or fakes, or drones, or whatever...what do you think they are? Tell us, straight out. It isn't enough to tell him that he's retarded or stupid or has no idea what he's talking about. If you don't agree with Chuk and me, you must believe one of the following options:
a) it is aliens piloting alien craft;
b) it is humans piloting recovered/gifted alien craft;
c) it is humans piloting heretofore unknown advanced human craft.
(And when I say piloting, that includes remote piloting ie. drones)
So which are each of you? And why? What evidence leads you to support your choice?
My evidence, since you might ask, is a combination of Occam's Razor and Common Sense. There has never been credible evidence of aliens or alien technology existing. There has never been credible evidence of humans making these specific breakthroughs in technology. While there is also not enough evidence to conclusively prove the theories in Chuk's videos, in the absence of any other evidence, it fits the best IN MY OPINION.
Many of you will use the fact that we can't conclusively prove our stance any more than the other ones as ammunition to bolster those other options. That is where common sense comes in. I don't have a kid, but imagine that you come home and there is a big piece of cake missing. You ask what happened. The kid tells you that xhe has no idea, maybe someone broke into the house and ate it. Lacking any conclusive evidence, that COULD be the truth. But the more likely truth is, obviously, that the kid ate it. That's what we have here. You guys are saying that a burglar ate it, because you want to believe cake-eating-burglars (CEBs for short) exist, and claiming that since we don't know for sure, your conclusion has just as much merit as the one where the kid ate it.
Moreover, since the kid down the street was also trying to get away with eating cake, he started telling stories about CEBs, then others started posting about CEBs on the internet, and other kids started tossing their accounts of CEBs into the hat because it was fun or a troll or they genuinely believed that it happened and wanted to get in on the hype, now any kid can point to the internet and say, "See, CEBs are real! Why else would there be so many posts and articles and blurry pictures of them?? There are whole websites and YouTube channels devoted to studying them!!" And look, the government just admitted that they are tracking all CEB sightings! Navy personnel saw CEBs themselves! They exist! And any time there is concrete evidence of a kid eating cake, CEB proponents say that still doesn't prove that all CEB sightings are fake. Despite the fact that there was never, and never has been, any actual evidence of CEBs, and many CEB claims are proven false, the possibility of CEBs still exists. Even though common sense says that the more likely answer is that it was kids eating cake, there are things that COULD be CEBs, so they are going to believe in them.
So come on, just tell us, are you a, b, or c? And why?
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BrotherWu
MAGA
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I don't know what they are and, to some extent, it doesn't matter. That's because regardless whether they're terrestrial or extraterrestrial in origin, they appear to be a fascinating leap in physics and technology. By the way, they don't have to be manned. They could be autonomous or remotely piloted.
For me, an important piece of this is considering the USN videos along with Fravor's story, which is pretty damn credible. If you believe him, and you think the videos are legit and back up his story, then there is some interesting shit flying around. I'd like to know what we know about the tech.
By the way, I watched the Netflix Lazar documentary and I had a couple of takeaways. 1) Jeremy Corbell is an annoying diva. 2) I'm inclined to believe that Lazar is full of shit.
I have a few reasons for calling BS. 1) I find it hard to believe, very much so, that we would be in possession of 9 or more off-world craft, some of which are fully intact. Are we to believe that a species capable of interstellar travel would make it all the way here, only to crash or abandon these craft? Repeatedly? 2) His description of the propulsion system included three mechanically actuated gravity emitters. The whole explanation struck me as really cheesy. 3) Not a single person from S4 has backed up his story AFAIK.
That's putting aside the questions of his educational and work histories. What is disturbing, though, is that if I am correct, and he is a bullshitting, he is very convincing from a body language and social cues perspective. He'd have to be pretty disturbed.
For me, an important piece of this is considering the USN videos along with Fravor's story, which is pretty damn credible. If you believe him, and you think the videos are legit and back up his story, then there is some interesting shit flying around. I'd like to know what we know about the tech.
By the way, I watched the Netflix Lazar documentary and I had a couple of takeaways. 1) Jeremy Corbell is an annoying diva. 2) I'm inclined to believe that Lazar is full of shit.
I have a few reasons for calling BS. 1) I find it hard to believe, very much so, that we would be in possession of 9 or more off-world craft, some of which are fully intact. Are we to believe that a species capable of interstellar travel would make it all the way here, only to crash or abandon these craft? Repeatedly? 2) His description of the propulsion system included three mechanically actuated gravity emitters. The whole explanation struck me as really cheesy. 3) Not a single person from S4 has backed up his story AFAIK.
That's putting aside the questions of his educational and work histories. What is disturbing, though, is that if I am correct, and he is a bullshitting, he is very convincing from a body language and social cues perspective. He'd have to be pretty disturbed.
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Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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its all of the above for those people its whatever else they can think of too. interdimensional cake eaters. whatever as long as it isnt the normal every day things like birds or planes coming in for a landing. you try to put the proof/rebuttal in front of their noses and say LOOK AT THIS, JUST LOOK!. they say pfft thats not proof thats just some nuclear sceintist on youtube. i know what im saying is true because of the youtube/twitter videos i linked that reinforce my own ideas. is there any point to having arguments anymore if the other side isnt at least willing to consider anyone else's ideas? in a rational world, a UFO believer would watch all the videos on UFOs, for and against and then postulate their own ideas and counterarguments.
what we have here are people who wont even tell you their argument/beliefs at all. because then they can say, "oh no i wasnt saying ET is real. they are from some phantom zone i just made up in my head, poptarts rain there as well. hahaha prove me wrong". then its like, fuck me you were trolling people, people who tried to reason and be friendly with you all along? i guess you got me, good luck with that.
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Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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i was into UFOs for well over 30 years, ive seen all the arguments and all the documentaries, it took me that long to realize that there was never anything substantial to hang the "UFOs are real" theory on. what kept me for so long was the eyewitness testimony, i would say, ok but if joe bob said he saw space aliens chilling out on the highway at 4am after the bars have closed, then how can i tell him he's full of shit. then the joe bobs started producing video of their encounters and when i saw that it was just fuzzy lights moving around and not actually anything, i noped out. basically the same with Bigfoot and Nessie. gimme something. something that is proof. birds flying over water is not going to bring me back into the fold.
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iannis
Musty Nester
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A basic application of parsimony forces me into option c). A and B require either 3 or 2 extra-ordinary claims to be true. C requires one extra-ordinary claim.
That's not to say that A and B are necessarily false. Occams razor says that you should not over complicate equations. But some equations are necessarily complicated. Parsimony can be misapplied, as well.
It's just less likely that it is, in the absence of evidence to the contrary.
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chthonic-anemos
bitchute.com/video/EvyOjOORbg5l/
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Technically any cake eater introduced to an outsider's hypothetical ideas of other-dimensional cake eaters is automatically themselves an other-dimensional cake eater.
Then there's the cake itself. Void's was the original and only possible cake but it's already gone. We can all agree to details but each of ours are separate and different. Additionally, you may each try to think similarly, of missing cakes, but I still have mine; it's the best and you can't have any.
Then there's the cake itself. Void's was the original and only possible cake but it's already gone. We can all agree to details but each of ours are separate and different. Additionally, you may each try to think similarly, of missing cakes, but I still have mine; it's the best and you can't have any.
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H.A. Monkey
Golden Knight of the Realm
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I probably shouldn’t be delving into this thread as it seems to have lost its way. What you’re basically saying is that someone else’s proof may not be proof enough to you. Even with your absent explanation of “I don’t believe it” doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Let’s side step for a second.
The Earth is a supposed 4.some Billion years old. The universe is a supposed 12-14 Billion years old. That’s a 8-10 Billion years of potential civilizations existing, or not existing. Put this in perspective, you have a recollection of events for 30 years or so. Humanities recorded history is some 6000 years long. We’ve existed as a bipedal species for 3 million years.
Who are you to say what is and isn’t plausible? Just because something doesn’t conform with your current perception, does not mean it is impossible. Yes I agree that certain things are easily debunked. But in terms of UFO’s, it’s literally in the name. It’s not calling them extraterrestrial craft. It’s not calling them space craft. It’s literally the Pentagon saying “we don’t know what these are!” Heat signatures that don’t match our current knowledge of craft. Detection through our systems that the crafts are somehow aware we’re watching them. And the speeds at which these objects have moved make the simple explanation like you say “it’s a bird!” easily debunked.
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Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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I'm not asking for much, how about a sharp image photograph or daytime video longer than a minute for starters and go from there?
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Siddar
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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And the US built mirvs and put multiple warhead on each.
The logic of building fifty one megaton bomb over building one fifty megaton was pure economics.
Followed by limits of the coming missiles that couldn't carry a 50 megaton bomb.
Then you have interesting divergence in technology between US and USSR. Where the US had mirvs and USSR had bigger missiles. That explains why US prefer-ed multiple smaller warheads and USSR prefer-ed larger single warhead armed missiles.
The next spiral development was US moving to solid fuel in it missiles that again acted to keep US warheads size smaller then USSR that was now deploying mirvs on it now much more powerful liquid fueled missiles.
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H.A. Monkey
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Debris obfuscation of the atmosphere means it’s sometimes hard to get that clear picture like you want. The sky isn’t clear, it’s filled with dust particles And water vapor. Combine that with the fact that the military prioritizes working tech over high resolution tech. I mean fuck, just take a picture of the moon with your cellphone. Why is it so blurry, are you that incompetent that you can’t even take a pic right? No you’re not that incompetent, the tech isn’t as advanced as you believe.
Void
BAU BAU
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Sometime in the next year, for exactly one minute, I am going to make a single grain of sand glow red. It will be visible from at least 20 feet, assuming it is unobstructed by other grains of sand or anything else that might block the light. Your job is to find it, using any and all technology available to humanity, and then pick it up before that minute is up.
Sounds pretty impossible, doesn't it?
That is still easier than one galactic civilization finding one other. There are more galaxies in the known universe than there are grains of sand on earth. One minute out of one year is actually longer than humanity has existed in comparison to the lifetime of our planet...let alone the entire universe. Furthermore, I'm letting you search for that entire year, which equates to your civilization existing as long as the universe has. In reality, you should be randomly assigned a couple of minutes during the year to search, and if the minute I chose to make the other one glow doesn't overlap, too bad so sad, because our two civilizations didn't exist at the same time. Further-furthermore! When looking through grains of sand, you can move from one to another almost instantly. To make the analogy more realistic, it should take you some minimum amount of time to travel from one grain of sand to another, because barring FTL travel, it takes a LONG time to get from one galaxy to another, let alone checking the entire thing for intelligent life.
Sure, that stipulates that only one civ is looking for only one other. Ok, let's increase the number of searchers (alien civs) to 100. Or 1000. Or hell, a million. We could increase the number of glowing red grains too, but they wouldn't be US. They would just be some other intelligent life, and we're only concerned about someone finding us. With even a million searching for us, what do you think the chances are that one of them happens to be looking in our direction, and is close enough to see it, for that one minute we exist?
But Void, what if those searchers have super-advanced satellites specifically designed to watch all the sand on the planet and detect when it glows red? Then it would be super easy to find it! Assuming that such a breakthrough is possible (because as stated, how do we know what is possible to a race that might have lived billions of years?), to make it realistic, we'd need to stipulate a delay in those satellites such that anything they see is, by definition, already at least several minutes old. Because unless they have also cracked FTL telescopes and/or FTL communications, it doesn't do a damn bit of good if they have a station close enough to see us become intelligent life if they are seeing it thousands of years after it happened, and it takes thousands or millions of years just to receive the message, let alone sending out a ship to come visit us.
I realize that a lot of this will just get hand-waved away with "well obviously they could have technology we know nothing about that would make the search trivial." Ok, but until we know that for a fact, it is literally no different than saying that they have wizards that can teleport across space and time. There's no defense against that argument. So until we discover or see some of those technological advancements for ourselves, all we can go off of is what we know about the physical world. And SO FAR, given what we know and postulate, there is such an infinitesimally small chance of another civ finding us that finding that red grain of sand is actually much, much easier to do.
And yet, millions of people seem to think that they are visiting us on the regular, so much so that they are actually crashing the crafts that somehow got them here from potentially billions of light years away. And either they are still flying them around, letting us take blurry pics and videos, just for fun, or they crashed enough that we somehow reverse-engineered it and are flying some of it around ourselves...again letting us take blurry pics and videos of it no less. Or that somehow we came up with this tech on our own, and somehow we have kept the methods such secrets that not a single instance of concurrent breakthroughs has happened. That happens all the time in other fields, but somehow not here. Some new process or procedure gets invented, and then a shitload of people start thinking of ways to use that for other things. Quite often, several people have the same ideas, and we get multiple inventions being worked on simultaneously, with only the winner being remembered in history. Yet I'm to believe that potentially several military industrial complexes across the globe have access to something like anti-grav tech (in order to be able to produce the results you claim from those videos and eye-witness accounts), and yet not a single person outside of those super-sekret military think tanks is even speculating about how to build it. Let alone trying to get a jump on what would quite literally be a trillion dollar invention overnight. I mean, can you imagine the revolution in the way we do things if anti-gravity (the kind you guys say exists in those craft) actually happened?? If it were even remotely possible today, there would be a mad scramble to be the first to patent it and cash in on it.
Unless, of course, you want me to believe that it is just taken from crashed alien craft. Or gifted to us by friendly aliens.
I have tried to do my best to explain why I think anything alien (or super-advanced human tech) is ridiculous to even consider. Maybe I've obfuscated it with too many words or too many ideas. But no one has given me a better counterpoint than "Well, we just don't know what might be possible for aliens (or super-advanced human tech), so I'm going to go ahead and believe it despite not having anything but inconclusive pics, videos, and eye-witness accounts. That makes more sense to me than it simply being misinterpretations or the herd mentality of people desperate to believe in interdimensional cake eaters because their day-to-day lives are boring and repetitious and uninteresting."
Again, I realize I can't prove a negative, so there is no "proof" that will ever convince someone that wants to believe that I am correct and they are wrong. You guys have the much easier task. All you have to do is prove that something exists. So do it. Prove something. I'm not talking about an hour long TV show that interviews people that say they saw something and shows video that could be any number of things (as Chuk's videos show), and is made to make ad money. Or YouTube videos that speculate and require a level of belief in order for them to make sense. Or people that claim to have seen proof, but don't have any of it to show...or claim to have it, but are afraid to show it (but not afraid to publicize the fact that they supposedly have it).
And if you really want to stop hurting your cause, stop posting shit that any normal reader would assume is you trying to present evidence, only to later post (after everyone shit all over it) "Yeah, it was clearly a fake. I just posted it to show how fake it was." No. No you didn't MFF. If you did, you would have said that in the same post as the "fake" evidence.
With all of this that I say, repeatedly, you guys probably think I'm anti-alien or xenophobic or whatever. That's the furthest thing from the truth. You should be able to gather from how many words I put into these things that I believe very strongly about the subject. I want, so much, for proof of extraterrestrial life to be discovered. Not only do I think it might possibly provide the galvanizing force required for us to finally start working together as a planet, but I also think it would spur our sadly anemic space research and technology to finally be where I imagined it when I was a kid so many years ago watching Star Wars. Proof of advanced alien civilizations would be the best (and potentially most horrifying) thing that could happen to us, in my opinion. So I desperately want it to happen. But blurry videos and dipshits claiming they have alien materials stashed away, but won't show them? Pilots seeing something they can't explain? Instruments giving anomalous results? People on the internet telling me that I just don't know the truth and I'm a sheeple? Yeah, that's gonna be a no from me, dog.
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Flobee
Vyemm Raider
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Change of topic. Has anyone read these documents?
First couple pages are weird and seemingly unrelated but the meat is the book "The Adam and Eve Story" by Chan Thomas. He basically makes some claims about cyclical catastrophic flooding that results from shifting of the magnetic poles within 1/2 a day or so. The momentum of the atmosphere and oceans is maintained and it causes the whole planet to essentially to be buried under water for 7 or so days. Hence the 7 days from Genesis. He takes this theory to explain a number of ancient flood theories, the instantaneous mass extinction events, and the multiple resets of human history.
This could potentially tie into the UFO deal if you wanted to assume that they are actually archaeological (old civ) crafts rather than alien. He never makes that claim though. I thought it was a really interesting read if nothing else. Also strange that is was classified until 2013.
First couple pages are weird and seemingly unrelated but the meat is the book "The Adam and Eve Story" by Chan Thomas. He basically makes some claims about cyclical catastrophic flooding that results from shifting of the magnetic poles within 1/2 a day or so. The momentum of the atmosphere and oceans is maintained and it causes the whole planet to essentially to be buried under water for 7 or so days. Hence the 7 days from Genesis. He takes this theory to explain a number of ancient flood theories, the instantaneous mass extinction events, and the multiple resets of human history.
This could potentially tie into the UFO deal if you wanted to assume that they are actually archaeological (old civ) crafts rather than alien. He never makes that claim though. I thought it was a really interesting read if nothing else. Also strange that is was classified until 2013.
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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I think it's more drastic than that, he's saying the earth's crust will rotate with the ocean going in the opposite direction, that's why there's 1000 mile an hour winds in the story.
It's an important distinction to make because you have to realise this theory is before plate tectonics was proven, actually the plates would crash into each other.
It's funny how he mentions the damage to Egypt is less for reasons, explaining all the ancient ruins still there that couldn't possibly survive what he describes.
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