Talos
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Are you trying to gather the confused multitude into a coherent identity held together by your big picture?
The Paranormal, UFO's, and Mysteries of the Unknown
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Julian The Apostate
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Nope just trying to get people to look past the bickering. I’ve made my hypothesis, made falsifiable predictions based on it, and I’m looking forward to see how it plays out as much as anyone.
Julian The Apostate
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If you have any questions or counter arguments to anything I’ve said please post them. I’m hoping to get a bunch of discussion going. Until then fuck off with your projecting and go back to the Catholic vs Protestant thread and call each other satanists until you’re blue in the face.
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Talos
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I don't think this post aligns with your Julian Creed. Are you a heretic in your own cult?
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Julian The Apostate
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No, I won’t be your next pope. Get off my dick.
But seriously, you are projecting your world views on to me. Do you feel threatened by my ideas? I’d consider it more of philosophy than a centralized religion. It is just what I would consider a good philosophy to live by that focuses on unconditional love and freedom from fear and guilt.
My entire philosophy is based on the premise that we are all divine, not one human is any more divine or less than another. Our bodies are the only temple we need and we can communicate directly to the eternal creator through thoughtful prayer and meditation which we then reflect on and filter our intuitions with the principles of honesty, integrity, and service to others. I believe we all can tap into the source of divine wisdom directly without the need for any authority figures that would attempt to centralize power and manipulate people. This philosophy would work just as well for an individual but certainly a lot of people would benefit from some sort of small community based worship. I do agree with you that there would have to be some kind of steadfast protections against anyone trying to become a cult like figure. Ideally, most of the community based gatherings would focus on service to others, with a few elders that could teach some meditation techniques, opportunity for group meditation and maybe quick lessons on secular morality and how to be a better more loving person. So yeah, basically it’s the exact opposite of the Catholic Church, no wonder it bugs you. The only other thing I’d add at the moment, other than additional safeguards against cult figures, would be more focus on giving thanks to the Infinite Creator.
Thanks for bringing this up again. I had no intentions to talk about it again but this did give me a chance to clear up a few things. Writing those tenants down and posting them was just some kind of therapy for me where I combined some type of correction to the problems I’ve had with mainstream religions and added in some hippy new age stuff that I find appealing. Probably won’t respond to your pathetic weak shit anymore unless you want to actually contribute something to the conversation. I must be living rent free in your head right now
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Talos
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Good stuff. Better than anything Manessa or pharmakos posted in the atheism thread. Please continue sharing your DIY spooky UFO religion.No, I won’t be your next pope. Get off my dick.
But seriously, you are projecting your world views on to me. Do you feel threatened by my ideas? I’d consider it more of philosophy than a centralized religion. It is just what I would consider a good philosophy to live by that focuses on unconditional love and freedom from fear and guilt.
My entire philosophy is based on the premise that we are all divine, not one human is any more divine or less than another. Our bodies are the only temple we need and we can communicate directly to the eternal creator through thoughtful prayer and meditation which we then reflect on and filter our intuitions with the principles of honesty, integrity, and service to others. I believe we all can tap into the source of divine wisdom directly without the need for any authority figures that would attempt to centralize power and manipulate people. This philosophy would work just as well for an individual but certainly a lot of people would benefit from some sort of small community based worship. I do agree with you that there would have to be some kind of steadfast protections against anyone trying to become a cult like figure. Ideally, most of the community based gatherings would focus on service to others, with a few elders that could teach some meditation techniques, opportunity for group meditation and maybe quick lessons on secular morality and how to be a better more loving person. So yeah, basically it’s the exact opposite of the Catholic Church, no wonder it bugs you. The only other thing I’d add at the moment, other than additional safeguards against cult figures, would be more focus on giving thanks to the Infinite Creator.
Thanks for bringing this up again. I had no intentions to talk about it again but this did give me a chance to clear up a few things. Writing those tenants down and posting them was just some kind of therapy for me where I combined some type of correction to the problems I’ve had with mainstream religions and added in some hippy new age stuff that I find appealing. Probably won’t respond to your pathetic weak shit anymore unless you want to actually contribute something to the conversation. I must be living rent free in your head right now
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Julian The Apostate
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Thanks man, I really appreciate that. There’s really not much else to it. I think one of the main problems with current mainstream religions is that they add too many arbitrary superfluous rules. This make it impossible to live a life that isn’t breaking some kind of rule which then leads to an unhealthy guilt and fear of punishment cycle. Honestly a lot of this shit comes from my own guilty conscience. When I was a teenager I would constantly be terrified about going to hell after jerking off but I couldn’t stop. It haunted me constantly in my teenage years and I think it causes a lot of issues with depression and hating myself in my life.
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Talos
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I want to assure you God isn't waiting around to zap people. "Jerking off? Ha, gotcha! Straight to hell!"
That legalistic kind of "God" isn't healthy and quite frankly isn't the God of traditional Christianity. Salvation is a process of theosis, becoming more like God, so that our eternal existence can be an eternal rest in Him along with those moments and relationships throughout our lives that were infused with His love.
However, that isn't to say there aren't things that make us less like God and more like demons. Jerking off would be one of those things along with all the other perversions of sexuality. If one were to spend their entire life pursuing those things, giving in to selfish passions, and refusing God's mercy, then that is the kind of "existence" they are crafting for themselves in the life of the world to come.
Feeling guilty about jerking off is normal because we know intrinsically that there's something wrong with it. But the next step isn't to pretend it's an arbitrary rule. The next step is to seek God's forgiveness. Salvation is a lifelong process.
Earlier in the thread you asked about hell. Our experience of the bodily resurrection and life of the world to come is probably not going to be eternity as in an endless succession of moments. Our experience there will be this life here and now but made eternal in God who exists outside of time, outside of an endless succession of moments. We have no idea what that will be like.
At the final judgment, all that was rotten and corrupt in our earthly lives will be burned away and all that was good, true, and beautiful will remain. If we had nothing good, not even one moment where we participated in God's love? Nothing would be left after that purification.
Thank you for listening to my homily.
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Julian The Apostate
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Very well said. The only thing I disagree is that it is jerking off is intrinsically wrong, I think I was taught that it was a sin. Like anything else, in moderation. You are essentially forcing kids to sin unless they get married at 11. If the creator didn’t want me jerking off he wouldn’t have made it so convenient. After one unsuccessful attempt back in the day I’m pretty confident that we’re not supposed to suck our own pricks though.
Probably the biggest fundamental difference between us is that I believe we all have divinity in us and mainstream religion teaches us that we are born broken and need fixed.
Talos
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We're not as different as you might think. There is definitely something divine about humanity that sets us apart from the rest of creation. That’s the imago dei: created in the image and likeness of God. We reflect certain qualities of God and were created to be in communion with Him. That’s why Catholicism places such a strong emphasis on protecting human life from the moment of conception until natural death. We have an inherent dignity above other creatures.
I won't try to convince you of the theological concepts of original sin or concupiscence. However, do you agree that there is something common among us all that inclines us to occasionally do bad things?
Julian The Apostate
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I think those small differences make us very very different. I don’t think you realize the enormity some of those small differences make and the snowball effect they can have. I think the small differences in my philosophy promotes love and freedom where yours promotes control through fear and guilt.
I don’t have all the answers, I don’t want to or feel the need to reconcile every piece of Catholic theology with my new philosophy, but I think free will is one of the fundamental laws of the universe. I think this whole theater is pointless without it.
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Aldarion
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People have such silly ideas about guilt.
When you do something bad, you should feel guilty. Thats healthy and necessary.
Every time I hear someone talk about how bad religion is, because guilt, I know I'm dealing with someone who refuses to acknowledge and regret the bad things they've done.
When you do something bad, you should feel guilty. Thats healthy and necessary.
Every time I hear someone talk about how bad religion is, because guilt, I know I'm dealing with someone who refuses to acknowledge and regret the bad things they've done.
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Julian The Apostate
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It’s just what you label or consider “bad”. You should feel guilt when you hurt someone else and guilt can be a great motivator for change just like anxiety.
I think telling teenagers it’s a sin and they shouldn’t jerk off is not a positive form of guilt and one that was not productive for me.
I feel guilt, and rightfully so, because I have a porn habit that affects my marriage in a very negative way. I recognized it, felt a lot of guilt about it, and am taking steps to fix it. That is a positive form of guilt but nothing I want to hang on to for long after I fix the problem. Just like anxiety motivates the hell out of me to be productive at work, without it I wouldn’t get shit done, but I don’t let it take over my life.
I think a lot of religions like to keep you in a state of guilt in perpetuity.
I think telling teenagers it’s a sin and they shouldn’t jerk off is not a positive form of guilt and one that was not productive for me.
I feel guilt, and rightfully so, because I have a porn habit that affects my marriage in a very negative way. I recognized it, felt a lot of guilt about it, and am taking steps to fix it. That is a positive form of guilt but nothing I want to hang on to for long after I fix the problem. Just like anxiety motivates the hell out of me to be productive at work, without it I wouldn’t get shit done, but I don’t let it take over my life.
I think a lot of religions like to keep you in a state of guilt in perpetuity.
Aldarion
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If thats what you think, you havent been listening to what religious people actually say.
guilt is step 1. Its not the goal. Christianity is specifically about freeing yourself from your well-deserved guilt.
But some people object because theres guilt along the way and they refuse to consider that something they did was wrong, because it felt good so it must have been OK.
guilt is step 1. Its not the goal. Christianity is specifically about freeing yourself from your well-deserved guilt.
But some people object because theres guilt along the way and they refuse to consider that something they did was wrong, because it felt good so it must have been OK.
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Julian The Apostate
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Julian The Apostate
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This is all well and good without the threat of infinite punishment for finite crimes.
My main issue isn’t the guilt, as we’ve both said it can be a positive force for change. It’s too many superfluous rules and threat of infinite punishment for finite crimes. Also, I feel guilty about violating what Jesus said, Paul not so much.
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