The Paranormal, UFO's, and Mysteries of the Unknown
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
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Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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i wasnt counting, seemed appropriate for the content. i mean how else you gonna make such finery in solid granite or basalt and your only available tools are a pile of rocks?
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iannis
Musty Nester
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they would have had metal tools and a versatile use of both fire and water in construction techniques. It's not stone age, he was talking bronze age. Which means soft metal tools.
A lot of these videos seem to give prehistoric builders both too much and too little credit at the same time.
They had some sort of stonecarving tools that we don't have anymore, obviously. Or else they had some exceptionally clever techniques for tools we do have that we don't require anymore. For example -- we build with concrete because it's fast and durable. We build with mortar because you don't HAVE to have perfect fit stones if you're willing to mortar them. What the guys tend to dismiss as regressions may be labor saving advances in technology. We just may not have the tools anymore because we don't need them anymore.
If the evidence for high technology is primarily that there are strange toolmarks that you can't explain that's not really evidence. That's just ignorance. You -could- make those marks he was showing as evidence of "high tech toolmarks" on stone with simple chisels or simple drills along with a judicious use of fire, though. If you were willing to invest the time to do it and then allowed 5000 years to weather away the evidence of your starts and stops. I've seen native american relics, gigantic stone pads, that bear the same sort of toolmarks. Injuns were quarrying for some reason. And if -they'd- had magic tools, neither one of us would be here.
Calling it "high tech toolmarks" is intentionally misleading. It's not being honest about what you're presenting.
What is really interesting is curved corners in megalith construction. First why. Second how. It is interesting. But I don't immediately jump to "it was aliens" or "they had to have powertools". Maybe they had a few dudes with nothing but time and some really really good sandpaper. And maybe it was the family business unto five generations. Or maybe, like that other video mentioned, those rocks were actually cast.
I do like the videos in general. Just that one, he was taking a very long time to say nothing in particular is all besides "wow! how could dummies have done this?" Well.. they fuckin did. I guess that lion relief was super important!
A lot of these videos seem to give prehistoric builders both too much and too little credit at the same time.
They had some sort of stonecarving tools that we don't have anymore, obviously. Or else they had some exceptionally clever techniques for tools we do have that we don't require anymore. For example -- we build with concrete because it's fast and durable. We build with mortar because you don't HAVE to have perfect fit stones if you're willing to mortar them. What the guys tend to dismiss as regressions may be labor saving advances in technology. We just may not have the tools anymore because we don't need them anymore.
If the evidence for high technology is primarily that there are strange toolmarks that you can't explain that's not really evidence. That's just ignorance. You -could- make those marks he was showing as evidence of "high tech toolmarks" on stone with simple chisels or simple drills along with a judicious use of fire, though. If you were willing to invest the time to do it and then allowed 5000 years to weather away the evidence of your starts and stops. I've seen native american relics, gigantic stone pads, that bear the same sort of toolmarks. Injuns were quarrying for some reason. And if -they'd- had magic tools, neither one of us would be here.
Calling it "high tech toolmarks" is intentionally misleading. It's not being honest about what you're presenting.
What is really interesting is curved corners in megalith construction. First why. Second how. It is interesting. But I don't immediately jump to "it was aliens" or "they had to have powertools". Maybe they had a few dudes with nothing but time and some really really good sandpaper. And maybe it was the family business unto five generations. Or maybe, like that other video mentioned, those rocks were actually cast.
I do like the videos in general. Just that one, he was taking a very long time to say nothing in particular is all besides "wow! how could dummies have done this?" Well.. they fuckin did. I guess that lion relief was super important!
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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you cant get this with some bronze shivs.
you aint fitting fifty ton rocks with laser precision on bronze shivs either.
some of these cultures were stone age.
thats from Easter Island. the same type of megaliths found globally are on this tiny island in the pacific. no metallurgy.
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TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Aliens theories are dumb. But it doesn't take a genius to realize that the megalithic structures at say, Machu Pichu, were not built by the Inca at all. Why you might ask? Because we have historical record and hundreds of examples of Inca building techniques and architecture. The megalithic pieces were built using wildly different techniques and aesthetic. It's as different as looking at ancient Japanese buildings and ancient Roman ones.
I don't buy aliens or weird ancient power tools most of the time. I do 100% believe that the official historical record on humanity is wildly inaccurate however.
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BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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you cant get this with some bronze shivs.
Of course you can. There's been videos posted already here about drilling in hard rock with sand and a bow drill. Once you have a round hole it's just a matter of filing out the corners also with sand. It would take a while, but it's only impossible because you fold your arms and keep saying it is. The bigger mystery to me is how a primitive society would have the resources to devote as much time as they do to building this shit, but the technology part isn't all that improbable.
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Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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Sand? if you can find any sand in the mountains of peru, please let me know. also let me know when one of those "derp it was a bow drill derp derp derp" people actually creates one of those 50 ton megaliths and sets it in place.
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BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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iannis
Musty Nester
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You get sand by crushing rock, chuck. Since all of this construction is out of stone sand is one thing they would have had an excess of.
Sand will also turn into soil if you leave it on the ground and wait ten years. Which is why you don't see giant sand dunes everywhere there was early human settlement.
The tool marks do not have to be high tech, is what I'm saying. Presupposing that they are is alright, but not necessary. And it does not seem to fit the evidence.
Megaliths are indeed a source of wonder. How in the fuck...
Sand will also turn into soil if you leave it on the ground and wait ten years. Which is why you don't see giant sand dunes everywhere there was early human settlement.
The tool marks do not have to be high tech, is what I'm saying. Presupposing that they are is alright, but not necessary. And it does not seem to fit the evidence.
Megaliths are indeed a source of wonder. How in the fuck...
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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ok so lets go through the process
1: crush rocks to make sand
2: bow drill
3: 3 inch bronze shivs
4: ???????
5:
iannis
Musty Nester
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You're mixing shit, man. I've said those megaliths defy that explaination.
My beef is with high tech tool marks. They're tool marks. Just tool marks.
Something was going on with Megaliths construction that we have flat out missed. And it's probably super obvious.
You know the giants staircase? I wonder if there are some places where natural processes form almost perfectly square stone. We wouldn't find them now because they were quarried and used.
I don't think that's it. But I'd go for that before aliens.
My beef is with high tech tool marks. They're tool marks. Just tool marks.
Something was going on with Megaliths construction that we have flat out missed. And it's probably super obvious.
You know the giants staircase? I wonder if there are some places where natural processes form almost perfectly square stone. We wouldn't find them now because they were quarried and used.
I don't think that's it. But I'd go for that before aliens.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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I'm being a bit of a smart ass, but i'm also serious, you are NOT cutting those blocks and setting them in place with stone balls, 3 inch bronze shivs and bow drills. those megaliths need to be cut with some special tools we have no knowledge of. also they are fitted in such a precise way that its impossible to imagine even if they had ancient Makita tools. you have to imagine holding up a monstrous block while you are constantly shaving the lower and side blocks to make a fit. the only less harebrained theory i have is some kind of geopolymer process where these rocks werent always solid.
the tool marks are important to the megaliths because it explains part of the process and while you have 2 guys sawing some marks on soft stone with a bow drill, you never actually see them complete one damn thing. they never do because the work involved just to cut and shape one piece is so time consuming and ridiculous when you imagine these guys made untold thousands in spans THEY say only took 30 years.
we havent even gotten into the delivery system and placing of the rocks in such a short amount of time.
and please dont bring up aliens, i never do. there are no aliens and if there were, they wouldnt waste their time zipping through hundreds of light years in space just to get here and start a construction business to troll future civilizations.
Chukzombi
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oh there is definitely some crazy in some of these videos. i try not to post those, the Indian guy thinks there is UFOs and stargates, or rather thats what he insinuates(i think he's pretending). the Brian Foerster guy has appeared on Ancient Aliens and he is obsessed with those elongated skulls. there is another guy who i watch, but i dont post his lecture videos. he believes in giants/nephillim and some conspiracy by the smithsonian to cover it up. i try to filter the crazy stuff out and only post the videos which are objective and still present legit mysteries . the Dr Charles vids have only recently become more stable. in the past his videos were way way more insane.
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a c i d.f l y
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Has the pyramids as observatories/telescopes theory been discussed here?
Pyramids as Telescopes?
THEORIES ON WHY THE GREAT PYRAMID WAS BUILT
"It is very remarkable that the opening of pyramids are all to the north. The passage seemed fitted for an observatory, as it formed a true tube, at the mouth of which it would be possible, to see the stars during the day."
Pyramids as Telescopes?
THEORIES ON WHY THE GREAT PYRAMID WAS BUILT
"It is very remarkable that the opening of pyramids are all to the north. The passage seemed fitted for an observatory, as it formed a true tube, at the mouth of which it would be possible, to see the stars during the day."
Hateyou
Not Great, Not Terrible
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there are also more out there theories that the earth was knocked off its original axis, while i need much more info to believe that, if true it may account for a lot of different things. i really hope we one day learn the truth. i think the ancient "handbags" in Gobekli Tepe is the smoking gun for the age of many ancient structures being much older than is being claimed.
GT is 12000 years old
so did this fad carry over for 8000 years to Egypt, Sumeria and South America's ancient art?
Are you saying that people are covering something up or that people are just fucking up the methods for dating things?
I always wonder why people think there would be some grand cover up. I think people researching the stuff would want the truth to be known just as much as us plebs.
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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The fact that some youtube guys don't want to spend a week cutting a stone just to prove that they can doesn't mean that if you have a couple hundred or even a couple thousand people working on it all day every day that they wouldn't be making a lot of progress even if it does take two guys a week of working all day to cut one block. The fact that we use machines to do pretty much all of that kind of work makes it hard to realize how much can be accomplished by just a bunch of humans busting their ass all day.
Argument from incredulity - RationalWiki
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