The Return of the Pink (Floyd)

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jeffvader

jeffvader

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Alex

Alex

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Eomer_sl said:
Animals and Dark Side of the Moon are far and away their best work. The Wall has it's moments, but there's some junk in there too.
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WYWH is by far my favorite. Such a sucker for SOYCD. And agreed about The Wall.
 
kegkilla

kegkilla

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Eomer_sl said:
I know you're just trolling, but I'll bite. You don't have to be the best guitar player in the world, or the vocalist with the biggest range, to make good or even great music. Song writing is a talent in itself. You say that just about any teenager with a few years experience could play just about any Pink Floyd. That's true for most of the "best" rock music, with some exceptions. The Beatles weren't amazing musicians, or at least most of their music wasn't spectacularly complicated or difficult. Tom Petty's music is all pretty simple, but that doesn't change the fact that he's arguably one of the best American song writers of all time.
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agreed 100% (except about Petty being the best American song writer of all time).... you don't have to be able to shred like Synyster Gates to be considered a good musician. with that said, the more skilled you are with your instrument, the more it opens up the musical possibilities for you to explore. there is something to be said for the melodic quality of Gilmour's songwriting/playing, but if Gilmour had the technical skill of say Peter Frampton, i think Pink Floyd's catalog would be infinitely better, and made the the painstakingly long instrumental sections much more interesting and bearable to people who aren't stoned out of their mind. hell come to think of it, Frampton's cheesy talking guitar gadget would be perfectly suited for most Pink Floyd songs.

i think you may be interpreting my comments as "Pink Floyd sucks" which wasn't what I was suggesting. without a doubt they have some good material; Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall are both very good records. unfortunately, those are the only two records out of their 10+ that i would say that about. they don't deserve to stand in the god tier of rock pioneers such as the Beatles, Zeppelin, the Stones, Black Sabbath. they should rank among the mid-tier of that era along with the likes of the Who, Fleetwood Mac, the Eagles, etc.

And Pink Floyd did pioneer some things in terms of recording on Dark Side of the Moon: The Dark Side of the Moon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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noted, but i'm not sure if credit should be given to the band or the producers/engineers in that example.

And I don't know that any band prior to them ever attempted a concept album, live performance and movie like they did with The Wall. The Wall live performance was pretty ground breaking in terms of the costs and complication of such a huge show, and it paved the way for concerts to become the spectacles that they have.
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Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper are both highly influential concept albums that preceded Dark Side of the Moon. some credit is due to Pink Floyd for the way they changed the concert experience with these shows. the Wall movie was god awful though and only serves to devalue a good album by exposing how inane the themes on the record actually are.
 
kegkilla

kegkilla

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Alex_sl said:
David Gilmour is a fantastic player. His tone and phrasing is uniquely his own. You hear five seconds of a Gilmour solo and know it's him. That's fucking impressive. Yeah, he doesn't shred I guess? Do you think Dragonforce is the greatest band in the world or something?

And you think Creed is the greatest. Get the fuck outta here. Tremonti is a good player but he didn't showcase any that in Creed.
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i think you're highly overestimating how recognizable Gilmour's sound is. Pink Floyd as a whole has a very identifiable sound, but i can't see how Gilmour's guitar playing in itself does.

also, David Gilmour would have a brain aneurysm and die if he ever attempted to play either of Tremonti's solos from this track:

 
Heriotze

Heriotze

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A lot of modern music is owed to Gilmour's slowhand style of playing and tweaking out his own distinctive sound all while not technically blowing any boundaries away (from a playing standpoint not from how he utilized studio technology). Tremonti is a very technically proficient player but that in itself doesn't create great music and that is very evident in other players that rely heavily on their technical proficiency but lack that touch of songwriter that has the ability to branch out and reach both musicians and also have mass public appeal. It's few and far between that you get a Clapton or a Hendrix that can straddle songwriting and technical expertise and still hit on exactly what everyone would like to hear in a song. Even diving into the technical greats like Vai or Satriani it's a niche area and difficult to call what they have accomplished, although incredible and all with completely mastering the instrument, anything close to what Gilmour has done. The difference between Tremonti and Gilmour is that Tremonti will try for the rest of his career to make a Dark Side of The Moon and Gilmour has already made multiple albums of that caliber all while not having to have an aneurysm.
 
kegkilla

kegkilla

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Heriotze_sl said:
Tremonti will try for the rest of his career to make a Dark Side of The Moon
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he already has:




two of the best hard rock performances we've encountered since the era of grunge music. not as commercially successful as DSotM for sure (albums in general will never sell like that again), but it's pretty clear that Tremonti doesn't give a fuck at this point in his career. Alter Bridge is notorious for telling labels to go fuck themselves when they try to get involved and pull strings, which is why they've been through 3 labels in 4 records.

anyway, go ahead and give it a listen, you don't even need to be doped out of your mind to enjoy it. only requirement is a set of testicles.
 
Heriotze

Heriotze

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It's a niche touch? but the beauty of the medium is how subjective it is. Current prog rock is a different beast than what it was during its inception. I can link Yes or King Crimson videos as a rebuttal but the crux of the argument rests on the foundations of the genre being strong enough for current artists to be able to continue to stand on. We can link Dragon Force solos and say that Tremonti has never written one as purely explosive as one of those or link a Mars Volta song and say that Dragon Force could never hope to write anything as technically obscure as that but the sum amount of all of our wicker men and no true Irishmen that we can accumulate in any of our collective posts can't diminish the people that paved the way for these types of bands to expand off of. What you may not know is that I own a bottle of dick cream, I like to fondle my sweaters and i often like to smear mud on my ass. You're probably asking yourselves ,"isn't he a weirdo, an outcast, loose cannon?" Maybe, i don't think so. I want to introduce you guys to someone, it's my friend. I don't know who he is but I do know this. At a time when I was trying to hide myself from myself he was there to show me a new way, cause I couldn't hide from him. And I can be proud of who I am. I put it to you camp firewood as we spend the last dinner together be proud of who you are. Look at me Ma I made it I'm ok. Now if you don't mind, i have some unfinished business to attend to.
 
Alex

Alex

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kegkilla_sl said:
Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall are both very good records. unfortunately, those are the only two records out of their 10+ that i would say that about. they don't deserve to stand in the god tier of rock pioneers such as the Beatles, Zeppelin, the Stones, Black Sabbath. they should rank among the mid-tier of that era along with the likes of the Who, Fleetwood Mac, the Eagles, etc.
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I get what you're saying. The Beatles and Zep are another level. All of their material is worth listening to. I don't dig Beatles pre-Rubber Soul, but my opinion doesn't mean shit when your music changes a generation. Eomer even brought up that pre-Gilmour material is bad. But those 70s albums are some of the greatest albums ever. You can't blame a band for taking a while to reach their peak and then lose some steam after a decade of damn near perfection.

And the David Gilmour sound IS the Pink Floyd sound. At least the Pink Floyd sound that everyone knows and loves.

 
kitsune

kitsune

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I'm a huge fan of the later works. I really like a momentary lapse of reason and the division bell is probably my favourite album ever. Mainly, I'm a huge gilmour fan, and his style shines on those albums (same with On an island). I really like waters too though, and think the utmost brilliance came when they were together all 4.

If you want to hear what "that gilmour sound" is, have at it:

 
iannis

iannis

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Eomer_sl said:
Their first few albums, before Gilmour, are pretty much unlistenable. Once he joined, it got a lot better. Basically everything from Meddle on is anywhere from "decent" to "amazing". I've never really listened much to the post-Waters albums myself. Animals and Dark Side of the Moon are far and away their best work. The Wall has it's moments, but there's some junk in there too.
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Their very first "album" isn't even an album, it's a recording of an improv they had at some festival. It has a couple of songs on it. "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" is actually a song, and its pretty decent for electronic music. But very abstract. It's not trippy or anything. It's just that they were obviously listening to abstract music and then thought, "We can do that". Think college band. Then think college band on lots and lots of drugs. Then think college band on lots and lots of drugs playing to a roomfull of hippies. That was Pink Floyd for the first few albums. And Careful With That Axe, Eugene is just cool. It holds up.

Animals is great as a whole. I really do think it's their crowning achievement. They wrote what is essentially a modern chamber work, with discrete movements and everything! Impressive for a rock band. A lot of bands were trying to do that at the time. It was a fad. Waters succeeded where so many others failed. There's a big cheesy section in it, but Waters is a big cheesy guy sometimes. Dark Side is a wonderful collection of songs. The Wall is hit and miss, but it's also very large and falls between the two.

All that said... you can't have a Rodgers and Hammerstein musical that only one of them wrote. I like Gilmore, but he's only half of Pink Floyd. I like Waters, but his solo stuff is not as good as his collaborations. This'll probably be decent because Gilmore is decent. Waters is right though, he really should have stopped using the name.
 
A

Adam12

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jeffvader_sl said:
none of you even mentioned syd barrett who was a complete genius and just got dosed to insanity.
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This is a popular argument (not on this forum, but elsewhere) and it's horseshit. The Syd years fucking sucked and Barrett was dragging them down. After he left Waters came into his own as a great song writer and Gilmore got to perfect dat tone (yeah, he was barely there while Syd was, I know). Syd was a retard surrounded by a ton of talent, and the band never would have gone anywhere had he not lost his shit. Live at Pompeii is pretty cool for the experimental stuff, but I think Syd was already long gone by then.

On another note: it took me 32 years to figure out that Time is the greatest song (lyrically) ever written, and I don't think you can think that until you're at least 30. Old people don't know shit about music though so I'm probably wrong.
 
kitsune

kitsune

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Adam12_sl said:
This is a popular argument (not on this forum, but elsewhere) and it's horseshit. The Syd years fucking sucked and Barrett was dragging them down. After he left Waters came into his own as a great song writer and Gilmore got to perfect dat tone (yeah, he was barely there while Syd was, I know). Syd was a retard surrounded by a ton of talent, and the band never would have gone anywhere had he not lost his shit. Live at Pompeii is pretty cool for the experimental stuff, but I think Syd was already long gone by then.

On another note: it took me 32 years to figure out that Time is the greatest song (lyrically) ever written, and I don't think you can think that until you're at least 30. Old people don't know shit about music though so I'm probably wrong.
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Time is the song that got me into pink floyd in the first place. My pal was like "listen to this" and shared an earbud with me. Remember being annoyed by the clocks and now I love them. It's like the anticipation of knowing what's to come is excellent
 
jeffvader

jeffvader

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there's a reason that waters idolized syd, you know. syd wrote every song on piper (except stethyscope) and invented the long jamming style that waters turned into saucerful.

the syd years didn't "suck". it was only a couple of years and he is the reason they got famous at all. he also inspired the last two tracks of dark side, probably my favorite 6 minutes of music ever.

anyway, i did say that waters is 99% of the band. all you gilmore fanboys have your heads up your asses. he's a great guitarist but wtf good did he everwrite? he may as well be a member of the eagles. he lucked into one of the greatest musical collaborations in history. he is paul mccartney to waters' john lennon. don't get me wrong, i love gilmore but c'mon - his first solo album? it sucked. roger waters took it and turned it into "comfortably numb". waters' solo album? the fucking wall, dude.

"Astronomy Domine"

Lime and limpid green, a second scene
A fight between the blue you once knew.
Floating down, the sound surrounds
Around the icy waters underground.
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania.
Neptune, Titan, Stars can frighten.
Lime and limpid green, a second scene
A fight between the blue you once knew.
Floating down, the sound surrounds
Around the icy waters underground.
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania.
Neptune, Titan, Stars can frighten.
Blinding signs flap,
Flicker, flicker, flicker blam. Pow, pow.
Stairway scare, Dan Dare, who's there?
Lime and limpid green, the sounds around
The icy waters under
Lime and limpid green, the sounds around
The icy waters underground.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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Now I have fucking Time stuck in my head. This verse in particular:

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death

To repeat myself, I'm not a fanboy but when they make a great song, they make a GREAT song. Like a better version of Tool, heh.

I'm also partial to Slash's (Velvet Revolver?) cover of "Money" It's just Gilmore with Slash's tone and sounds fucking fantastic.
 
Eomer

Eomer

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Listened to Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Saucerful of Secrets this morning while working. Maybe I'm not a true Pink Floyd fan, but goddamn, other than a couple songs those albums do absolutely nothing for me. Halfway through More, and pretty much the same thing there, although it's more listenable.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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I was at a bar where someone played Echoes on the digital jukebox. There was visible annoyance after several minutes of random clanging noises.

At least one person even thought that the song was being played multiple times in a row when the singing finally came in again.

I felt like I was in on the joke.
 
Nester

Nester

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Have you guys heard "dub side of the moon" Dark side of the moon done very well in the style of reggae. Its very fitting and one of my fav albums (not just for the PF tribute)

 
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