The Trayvon Trial

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Famm

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If, by "Macho Type", you mean people that physically assault other people because they are offended and can't control their emotions well enough to be in public, then yes. People like that are no different than mad dogs and should be put down.
He apparently thinks racism and sexism are wrong but is perfectly ok to beat someone half to death because you don't like them.
 

Famm

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Some things the media has really gotten wrong

Where the fight started is almost exactly at the same spot where George agreed to not follow.

George got out of the vehicle in direct response to being asked where Trayvon is running, then when advised he didn't have to follow, George said "okay". No reliable evidence exists of George continuing to follow.

We now know that Trayvon was likely a burglar, was an experience d fighter (a friend in text message implored him to stop fighting so much), his mom had kicked him out of the house, he likely got kicked off the bus to Sanford when he hit the bus driver, causing Brandy Greene to have to pick him up, and Trayvon had tried to buy an illegal firearm the week before.

The fight started about ten seconds jog from George's truck.

Forensics show Trayvon was on top of George when the shot was fired.
But racism!

(Citations? I'd rather not take this at face value, but that's pretty interesting if so.)
 

TrollfaceDeux

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If, by "Macho Type", you mean people that physically assault other people because they are offended and can't control their emotions well enough to be in public, then yes. People like that are no different than mad dogs and should be put down.
are you describing Martin Trayvon. thats racist.
 

Loser Araysar

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We now know that Trayvon was likely a burglar, was an experience d fighter (a friend in text message implored him to stop fighting so much), his mom had kicked him out of the house, he likely got kicked off the bus to Sanford when he hit the bus driver, causing Brandy Greene to have to pick him up, and Trayvon had tried to buy an illegal firearm the week before.
citation needed

p.s. what kind of a name is Trayvon anyways?
 

Coren_sl

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But racism!

(Citations? I'd rather not take this at face value, but that's pretty interesting if so.)
It is all pieced together from hundreds of pages of evidence discovery with a touch of FOIA requests hehe.

Gzlegalcase.com has the text messages discussing the fighting, attempted gun purchase, etc. One of the texts from Trayvon mentioned how he didn't get enough blood from the other guy so was going back for more.

That Trayvon was found with a bag of jewelry is public knowledge, independent research found the break in near Trayvon's school with jewelry that matched what Trayvon was found with.

Etc.
 

Coren_sl

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Trayvon's mom kicking him out of the house is also from the text messages found on Trayvon's phone (in discovery at gzlegal.com).

The same mother who had been touring the country telling us how good of a kid he was.
 

Chukzombi

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But racism!

(Citations? I'd rather not take this at face value, but that's pretty interesting if so.)
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...d-guns/2122811
i found this. not sure if its board consensus that The Tampa Bay Times is a reputable news source.
In Trayvon Martin's text messages, talk of marijuana, fights and guns

Marc CaputoMarc Caputo, Miami Herald

Friday, May 24, 2013 12:06pm

In the months and days before his shooting death, Trayvon Martin was getting into fights, getting high on marijuana, getting suspended from school and talking with friends about getting a gun, according to cellphone text messages that defense lawyers for shooter George Zimmerman released Thursday.

Trayvon's chronically misspelled, slang-filled messages ? as well as pictures of a semi-automatic pistol, marijuana plants and Trayvon flipping his middle fingers ? are all part of Zimmerman's defense plan to put the Miami Gardens 17-year-old posthumously on trial.

"So you just turning into a lil hoodlum," one friend, whose name has been withheld, texted Trayvon.

Trayvon replied: "No not at all."

At one point, Trayvon joked that the friend was "soft."

"Boy don't get one planted in ya chest," the friend joked back.

The message, a likely reference to being shot, eerily foreshadowed Trayvon's fate three months later.

On the rainy evening of Feb. 26, 2012, Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon at an apartment complex in Sanford, near Orlando, where the Miami Gardens teen was sent to live with his dad to get back on track.

That night, Trayvon was returning from a convenience store where he had just bought a pack of Skittles and some iced tea. Zimmerman said he believed the young man in the hoodie sweatshirt was up to no good.

No one witnessed who threw the first punch at whom or why.

But soon Trayvon was dead from a Sig Sauer gunshot wound, Zimmerman was in police custody and the nation began debating Florida's deadly force law known as "stand your ground."

The law offers protections for some shooters in public places, but Zimmerman was still charged with second-degree murder by a special prosecutor appointed by Gov. Rick Scott. Zimmerman is pleading self-defense, and said Trayvon attacked him.

His trial is scheduled for June 10.

Though Zimmerman might not take the stand, his statements given to police and his 911 calls on the night of the shooting are major pieces of evidence. His defense lawyers hope to counter with Trayvon's text messages and his troubled record at school.

A Central Florida judge must now decide whether the evidence is relevant to the case. The prosecution and Trayvon's family say it isn't.

Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Trayvon's family, said in a written statement that the defense was displaying "stereotypical and close-minded thinking" in signaling that it planned to use Trayvon's messages and photos, including pictures of him blowing smoke and showing off gold teeth.

"The only photos or videos that are relevant or admissible at trial are those of Trayvon taken the day he was shot and killed by George Zimmerman," Crump said. "There is no evidence that Trayvon either had gold teeth nor gave anybody the finger the night he was shot and killed. Therefore those pictures are irrelevant and will not be admitted into evidence."

The text messages, some of which are redacted, do not make clear whom Trayvon was talking to at different times. Sometimes it appears he was joking with a friend, other times with a girlfriend and, in at least one instance, with his father.

Some of the earliest text messages date back to early November 2011, in which Trayvon, a junior at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade, indicates he was suspended from school for being in a fistfight.

Later in the month, on the 21st, he exchanged messages with at least one friend about an after-school fight.

One of Trayvon's cellphone pictures shows two teens about to square off against one another as a third stands in the middle like a referee. Trayvon said he fought a rival who "snitched on me."

Trayvon: "I lost da 1st round
smile.png
but won da 2nd nd 3rd."

Friend: "Ohhh So It Wass 3 Rounds? Damn well at least yu wonn lol but yuu needa stop fighting."

Trayvon: "Nay im not done with fool?.. he gone hav 2 see me again."

Friend: "Nooo? Stop, yuu waint gonn bee satisified till yuh suspended again, huh?"

Trayvon told another friend at the time that his mother wanted him to move in with his dad after he was suspended.

"Da police caught me outta skool," Trayvon wrote.

Months later, Trayvon appeared to get into trouble again, but suggested on Jan. 6, 2012, that he was an innocent bystander: "'I was watcn a fight nd a teacher say I hit em." The following month he complained he got in trouble for something "I didn't do."

In between these messages, he appears to flirt with a girl and talk extensively about smoking marijuana, or "kush." One friend called him a "WEEDHEAD."

Trayvon's troubles appeared to get worse and, on Feb. 13, he explained to a friend that he was serving "10 dayz" of suspension.

Five days later, he repeatedly appears to inquire about a gun with a friend: "U got heat??" Hours later he was asked by text: "You want a 22 revolver?" The friend who sent the message said it was bought by "my mommy."

On Feb. 21, Trayvon appeared to be heading to Sanford to live with his father. But he hadn't lost interest in guns.

"U wanna share a .380?" he asked one friend.

Hours after that, someone who appears to be his father sent him text messages about staying in Sanford.

"Show much respect to (redacted) and adjust to my Lady & (redacted). Show them that you a good kid and you want positive things around you," his father, Tracy Martin, wrote to Trayvon.

A minute later he followed up: "Be a big brother and not a DONKEY ? ?LOVE DAD."

In Trayvon Martin's text messages, talk of marijuana, fights and guns 05/24/13 [Last modified: Friday, May 24, 2013 3:29pm]
 

TrollfaceDeux

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It is all pieced together from hundreds of pages of evidence discovery with a touch of FOIA requests hehe.

Gzlegalcase.com has the text messages discussing the fighting, attempted gun purchase, etc. One of the texts from Trayvon mentioned how he didn't get enough blood from the other guy so was going back for more.

That Trayvon was found with a bag of jewelry is public knowledge, independent research found the break in near Trayvon's school with jewelry that matched what Trayvon was found with.

Etc.
the thread is done if this is true.

and the media is humiliated, along with dipshits and douchebags who constantly cried "RACISM."
 

Tanoomba

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Guess what? Guys get into fightsall the time. Assault is illegal, but guys who are drunk/full of testosterone/have something to prove/feel insecure/feel frustrated/etc. get into fightsall the fucking time. In the vast majority of these cases, nobody is held legally responsible as once one person throws the first punch the other guy pretty much has no choice but to respond in kind and not let up until one of them is unable to continue or an external force stops the fight. What's the alternative, be a pussy and run away? Pull out your cell and say "That's not cool, man! I'm reporting you for assault! What's your full name?" Be "gay"?

It's not fucking difficult to get into a fight, especially for "macho" type guys. I would include many of you in this category, except I suspect your machismo is limited to message boards where you can be a blowhard jock and never have to face any actual consequences. In any case, is anybody arguing that you couldn't get someone to throw a punch at you if you wanted to? Is anybody actually suggesting that? I'm not suggesting the person throwing the punch would be justified in any way, violence is never justified, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be easy as fuck to get yourself into a fight that you didn't have to break any laws to start. Of course, it's a small step from "being in a fight" to "feeling your life is in danger", so you can see how, without breaking any laws, you can get your ass kicked and shoot people with no consequences. You don't have to plan to kill the person, it's irrelevant. The guy who threw the punch at you is technically legally responsible for his actions, as he's the one who broke the law, not you. So there you go. Giant legal loophole that allows anybody to kill any macho guy they'd like to make a point about. Again, I'm not suggested Zimmerman had intent to kill Martin, but his actions led to a confrontation (we don't know who threw the first punch) and ended with a dead kid. Zimmerman should have to take some responsibility for this.

Is this really so hard to grasp?
 

Chukzombi

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regarding the jewelry i found this. again not sure if this is a nutjob site.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...jewelry-theft/

Miami-Dade Police Department: Trayvon Martin Not Tied to Any Reported Jewelry Thefts



SANFORD, Fla. (AP/The Blaze) - Women's jewelry and a watch found in Trayvon Martin's school backpack last fall could not be tied to any reported thefts, the Miami-Dade Police Department said Tuesday.

The Miami Herald in its Tuesday editions reported that it had obtained a Miami-Dade Schools Police Department report that showed the slain teenager was suspended in October for writing obscene graffiti on a door at his high school. During a search of his backpack, the report said, campus security officers found 12 pieces of women's jewelry, a watch and a screwdriver that they felt could be used as a burglary tool.

Martin's fatal Feb. 26 shooting in Sanford, Fla., by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman has caused a national firestorm. His family and people at rallies all over the country have demanded the arrest of Zimmerman who says he shot the unarmed 17-year-old in self-defense. Martin was black and Zimmerman's father is white and his mother, Hispanic. Martin's family and their supporters believe race played a part in the decision not to charge Zimmerman.

The Herald reported that when campus security confronted Martin with the jewelry, he told them that a friend had given it to him, but he wouldn't give a name. The report said the jewelry was confiscated and a photo of it was sent to Miami-Dade Police burglary detectives. Miami-Dade school officials declined Tuesday to confirm the report when contacted by The Associated Press, citing federal privacy laws regarding students.

Miami-Dade Police confirmed that it had been asked by school police to help identify the property taken from Martin's backpack. It notified school police that the jewelry did not match any that had been reported stolen.

Martin had previously been suspended for excessive absences and tardiness and, at the time of his death, was serving a 10-day suspension after school officials found an empty plastic bag with marijuana traces in his backpack.

His parents and their lawyer, Benjamin Crump, have said such reports are irrelevant to the shooting and part of an attempt to demonize Martin. Crump did not return calls to The Associated Press on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, black Democratic members of the Florida Legislature are demanding that a special session be called to consider whether to repeal the state's seven-year-old "Stand Your Ground" law, which eliminated a person's duty to retreat when threatened with seriously bodily harm or death.

Sanford police have cited the law as the reason Zimmerman wasn't arrested after the shooting. They are also demanding that a task force appointed by Gov. Rick Scott to examine the shooting and any changes needed to state law begin work immediately instead of waiting for the police investigation to conclude.

"Whether self-defense was a legitimate factor, the law remains intact - with all the same components still in place for more killings and additional claims of self-defense, warranted or not," state Sen. Chris Smith wrote in a statement to the governor. ".I'm sure you will agree that delaying the work of the task force - possibly up to one year or longer - suits no purpose other than to allow more tragedies to unfold."

But Scott and other Republicans have insisted that the state should wait until ongoing police investigations are completed.

Republican Rep. Dennis Baxley, one of the sponsors of the law, said that "when things have cooled off a little bit I think it's worthy to sit down and say is there legislation that is needed."

In Sanford Tuesday, the city manager said that hiring an outsider to run the police department is a priority to help cool tensions caused by Martin's death and the investigation.

Manager Norton Bonaparte said officials were working with the nonprofit group Police Executive Research Forum to identify potential candidates.

Police Chief Bill Lee temporarily stepped down after outrage erupted over the police department's handling of the shooting.

Darren Scott, a 23-year veteran of the Sanford Police Department, was named acting chief. Lee is still employed with the department and receiving his salary.

At a news conference Tuesday, Bonaparte and Scott refused to answer any questions about an information leak to the media. The leak contained an account by Zimmerman that said Martin was the aggressor in a fight leading up to the shooting. Officials have said they will investigate where the leak came from.

"We have a legal system in place and we ask that people let it take its course," Darren Scott said. "I am concerned with everyone's concerns, but I will not comment on the investigation."
im sure tanoomba will say its all just boys being boys and that trayvon was an amateur jewelry dealer like cartman on south park.
 

khalid

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Again, I'm not suggested Zimmerman had intent to kill Martin, but his actions led to a confrontation (we don't know who threw the first punch) and ended with a dead kid. Zimmerman should have to take some responsibility for this.

Is this really so hard to grasp?
All we know of his actions are that he followed someone for a bit, called the police, and then backed off when told to. That in no way makes him worthy of any blame.

Now maybe he was at fault, maybe he threw a punch, maybe he called Trayvon a "crack ass American Inventor" or something. However, we have no evidence of that, and baring any evidence, he shouldn't take any responsibility for having to defend himself.
 

Himeo

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Guess what? Guys get into fightsall the time. Assault is illegal, but guys who are drunk/full of testosterone/have something to prove/feel insecure/feel frustrated/etc. get into fightsall the fucking time. In the vast majority of these cases, nobody is held legally responsible as once one person throws the first punch the other guy pretty much has no choice but to respond in kind and not let up until one of them is unable to continue or an external force stops the fight. What's the alternative, be a pussy and run away? Pull out your cell and say "That's not cool, man! I'm reporting you for assault! What's your full name?" Be "gay"?
The alternative is to have society without people who attack you because they don't like you. Our system of law isn't perfect, but we do have self-defense. I have no problem with self-defense laws and concealed carry permits. Do you?
 

Famm

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Guess what? Guys get into fightsall the time. Assault is illegal, but guys who are drunk/full of testosterone/have something to prove/feel insecure/feel frustrated/etc. get into fightsall the fucking time. In the vast majority of these cases, nobody is held legally responsible as once one person throws the first punch the other guy pretty much has no choice but to respond in kind and not let up until one of them is unable to continue or an external force stops the fight.
The vast majority of those fights also end up being under a minute of swinging and grappling that end up broken up by friends or bouncers/security and shit. They don't tend to escalate into someone's head being slammed into the sidewalk, and in the event they do its more often a beatdown 5-on-1 sort of scenario....and people are much more likely to get charged with something.

Most of the shootings I read about are more like verbal altercations where one side pulls a weapon, or if there was a fight they leave the scene and return with the weapon. Which is very different than an actual self defense situation.
 

Loser Araysar

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I forgot about the whole Trayvon hoodlum thing.

Looks like GZ did the society a favor.

They should just call it Even Steven and drop charges.
 

Duppin_sl

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Spend the entire thread stressing how important due process is, think it's awesome that someone got killed just for being a "hoodlum". Maybe.
 

Chukzombi

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@araysar,
thats exactly what the cops did initially, when the story went nationwide and the president said he looks like his wouldbe son they got some special investigation going and trumped up this bullshit 2nd degree murder charge to appease the al sharptons and hooligans disrupting the town of sanford.

lets not forget this happened.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/09...rayvon-martin/

Students demanding justice in the shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin shut down the Sanford Police Department headquarters.

A group of students calling themselves the Dream Defenders blocked the entrance of the department's headquarters early Monday. City officials said the protest would have "minimal effect" on police and fire officials' response to emergency calls.

"I can honestly say that I'll never forget this experience," James Bland told WOFL on Sunday. "It's been incredible, I honestly feel, as if I'm participating in something that will forever change the course of history."

Gabriel Pendas, one of the organizers of the march, said the students were doing "the right thing" by participating in the three-day, 41-mile march from Daytona Beach to Sanford.

"We're coming to Sanford with love and with compassion and ... working to heal this community," Pendas told WOFL.

Due to the protest, police services such as fingerprinting were not available Monday, department officials said. Other routine business would be conducted at City Hall.

"The city of Sanford hopes the actions of the students will be as peaceful and orderly as the previous rallies and marches have been. We want to be accommodating to all our visitors providing they act in a manner that is respectful to the people of the city," City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a statement.

Read more:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/09...#ixzz2XeVKx7Lc
i cant blame the town of sanford, if i lived there and there was this small ineffectual police force id be fucking scared as hell that some "peaceful" and "loving" protestor would toss a firebomb into my house destroying my property and killing my family.
 

Famm

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I forgot about the whole Trayvon hoodlum thing.

Looks like GZ did the society a favor.

They should just call it Even Steven and drop charges.
They should proceed with trial and let the jury decide an outcome after both sides argue the case.

For you and I though, why should Zimmerman's character be examined but not Martin's? Is it possible they arebothlow life shit bags, AND that one of them was actually the aggressor here? Or should we all be little Tanoomba's, posting anecdotally charged tirades and impassioned pleas to emotion while simultaneously telling everyone else they aren't logical.
 
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