The Trayvon Trial

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Numbers_sl

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If Zimmerman laid a hand on the kid after following him, he deserved a punch to the mouth. And that doesn't mean that he can turn around a shoot him in self defence.
 
khalid

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Numbers_sl said:
If Zimmerman laid a hand on the kid after following him, he deserved a punch to the mouth. And that doesn't mean that he can turn around a shoot him in self defence.
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No, but we have zero evidence of anything like that happened. In fact, from all the evidence we do have, it appears that Trayvon backtracked to Zimmerman after Zimmerman backed off.
 
Noble Savage

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Famm_sl said:
Their agenda is sponsorship, driven by viewership, driven by sensationalist emotion based stories. AKA they are another form of entertainment, but they have real world ramifications.

Otherwise, yes the media fanned the flames on this shit and it could come back to ignite pretty bad.
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While I agree with the premise of your statement you have to know that they cherry pick which stories to talk about and give attention to. Mostly stories that advance their liberal agenda.
 
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Numbers_sl

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khalid_sl said:
No, but we have zero evidence of anything like that happened. In fact, from all the evidence we do have, it appears that Trayvon backtracked to Zimmerman after Zimmerman backed off.
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Were there any witnesses that saw how Zimmerman approached the kid or if he touched him before the altercation where he cowardly murdered the teenager?
 
Famm

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Is Duppin even for real?

News flash: Zimmerman could very will be a crazy hillbilly racist piece of shit, and still have been acting in self defense. Its not actually mutually exclusive.
 
Vaclav

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Numbers_sl said:
Were there any witnesses that saw how Zimmerman approached the kid or if he touched him before the altercation where he cowardly murdered the teenager?
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Not that I've seen - all witnesses were after the fight had started. People have put that theory together from the phone call stuff and Z's quotes.
 
Araysar

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noble savage_sl said:
While I agree with the premise of your statement you have to know that they cherry pick which stories to talk about and give attention to. Mostly stories that advance their liberal agenda.
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Im sure you have proof of this.
 
Himeo

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Famm_sl said:
Is Duppin even for real?

News flash: Zimmerman could very will be a crazy hillbilly racist piece of shit, and still have been acting in self defense. Its not actually mutually exclusive.
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If he isn't trolling he's a conflicted liberal trying to make reality conform to his delusional world view.
 
Tanoomba

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Maester Chuk_sl said:
The fact zimmerman suffered a beating before he used deadly force to fend off his attacker is all thats important.
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Really? I guess that means I can grab a gun then go out and pick fights with random dangerous-looking people. Once they've overpowered me (I'm not much of a fighter), I can shoot them dead and say I was defending my own life. Then I can find someone else, pick a fight, get the shit kicked out of me and shoot them too. Lather, rinse, repeat, and all the goons I can shoot with no consequences. Sounds like a great system. What's missing from this hypothetical situation? Oh yeah, any responsibility on my part for instigating the fights. You can say that as long as I don't throw the first punch I'm not breaking the law, right? So I can find some drunk guy or a college jock or a roid-raged bodybuilder, tell him that after I fucked his mother her vagina looked like his face, then legally shoot the guy after he beats the shit out of me. It's consequence-free murder! Why isn't everybody doing this all the time?

We can't say who threw the first punch between Zimmerman and Martin, there's no proof either way. A lot of people are assuming that Martin started the fight for no other reason than he's supposedly a "wanna-be gangster" or "that's just what makes more sense to me", as if that counted for shit. The fact that Martin was in a dominant position during the fight has zero correlation to who started the fight. Either one of them could have started with a "You got a problem, why don't you come do something about it?" or by pushing at the other's shoulder or by yelling threats. It really doesn't take much to get "macho" men (which applies to both young black men who feel they have to stand up for themselves and to "enforcers" who feel it's their duty to keep the undesirables in check) riled up enough to start fighting. It could very well be that Martin said something that pushed Zimmerman's button and got him to throw the first punch, then get overpowered and rely on his gun to kill the kid. It could have started the opposite way, with Zimmerman pushing Martin's button. Again, we'll never know. But unless you think my previous paragraph makes perfect sense, people should have to take responsibility for their actions, and that includes intimidating a stranger who had done nothing wrong. And yes, following somebody around and questioning their right to be there counts as intimidation. That's why we usually let authority figures handle it.

We can't just call this a case of "Welp, these things happen". Somebody died unnecessarily. Many of you are trying to blame it on Martin based on nothing but your racist hunches. Fucking quit it. We can't prove who threw the first punch, so making assumptions is fucking pointless. We do know that Zimmerman was following someone who had done nothing wrong, and this ended in the death of a kid. I'm sorry, you can talk 'till you're blue in the face about how Zimmerman was just trying to look out for his neighborhood and that he had successfully contributed to the capture of past hoodlums, but that doesn't change the fact that the only thing that made Martin "suspicious" was that he was black and wearing a hoodie. "But it's not illegal to follow somebody! It's not illegal to ask someone what they're doing! It's not illegal to be racist!" Sure, but at what point do we have to take responsibility for our actions? If I run into Harlem and yell out "Come and get me, American Inventors!", whoever gets riled up enough to come throw a punch at me will technically be the first one to break the law, right? So does this mean I have no responsibility? Zimmerman's actions lead to an unnecessary death. He should take some responsibility for that.
 
B_Mizzle

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Araysar_sl said:
I completely agree, but there is also the aspect of Zimmerman instigating this entire confrontation and ultimately killing someone.

You can't just let someone walk away from that. But its Florida so they probably will because that state is retarded.
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Except even if Zimmerman had confronted TM and asked him WTF he was doing, that's not a crime. Here is the applicable statute:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or shereasonably believesit is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

So even if Zimmerman went up to TM and told him to get the fuck out of the complex, that is not illegal. The moment TM straddles Zimmerman, Zimmerman can shoot him. Zimmerman could probably have shot him much sooner to be honest, if that iced tea can looked like a gun in his pocket, or he felt like Trayvon was trying to rape him, etc..

This law reads a little different where I live, it says imminent in my state, meaning you don't have to wait until they are on top of you and about to smash your head into the sidewalk before you can shoot them.

End of the day though, Kangs gonna Kang.
 
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Duppin_sl

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What are you talking about? I'm totally for real. Zimmerman is a goddamn angel, who I think probably was trying to shyly approach Martin to see if he would maybe go get some coffee with him sometime. Strictly platonically though, of course.
 
Famm

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Tanoomba_sl said:
We can't say who threw the first punch between Zimmerman and Martin, there's no proof either way. A lot of people are assuming that Martin started the fight for no other reason than he's supposedly a "wanna-be gangster" or "that's just what makes more sense to me", as if that counted for shit. The fact that Martin was in a dominant position during the fight has zero correlation to who started the fight. Either one of them could have started with a "You got a problem, why don't you come do something about it?" or by pushing at the other's shoulder or by yelling threats. It really doesn't take much to get "macho" men (which applies to both young black men who feel they have to stand up for themselves and to "enforcers" who feel it's their duty to keep the undesirables in check) riled up enough to start fighting. It could very well be that Martin said something that pushed Zimmerman's button and got him to throw the first punch, then get overpowered and rely on his gun to kill the kid. It could have started the opposite way, with Zimmerman pushing Martin's button. Again, we'll never know.
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Wouldn't that be this crazy rights-of-the-accused concept known as "reasonable doubt"?
 
Himeo

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Tanoomba_sl said:
Really? I guess that means I can grab a gun then go out and pick fights with random dangerous-looking people. Once they've overpowered me (I'm not much of a fighter), I can shoot them dead and say I was defending my own life. Then I can find someone else, pick a fight, get the shit kicked out of me and shoot them too. Lather, rinse, repeat, and all the goons I can shoot with no consequences. Sounds like a great system. What's missing from this hypothetical situation? Oh yeah, any responsibility on my part for instigating the fights. You can say that as long as I don't throw the first punch I'm not breaking the law, right? So I can find some drunk guy or a college jock or a roid-raged bodybuilder, tell him that after I fucked his mother her vagina looked like his face, then legally shoot the guy after he beats the shit out of me. It's consequence-free murder! Why isn't everybody doing this all the time?

We can't say who threw the first punch between Zimmerman and Martin, there's no proof either way. A lot of people are assuming that Martin started the fight for no other reason than he's supposedly a "wanna-be gangster" or "that's just what makes more sense to me", as if that counted for shit. The fact that Martin was in a dominant position during the fight has zero correlation to who started the fight. Either one of them could have started with a "You got a problem, why don't you come do something about it?" or by pushing at the other's shoulder or by yelling threats. It really doesn't take much to get "macho" men (which applies to both young black men who feel they have to stand up for themselves and to "enforcers" who feel it's their duty to keep the undesirables in check) riled up enough to start fighting. It could very well be that Martin said something that pushed Zimmerman's button and got him to throw the first punch, then get overpowered and rely on his gun to kill the kid. It could have started the opposite way, with Zimmerman pushing Martin's button. Again, we'll never know. But unless you think my previous paragraph makes perfect sense, people should have to take responsibility for their actions, and that includes intimidating a stranger who had done nothing wrong. And yes, following somebody around and questioning their right to be there counts as intimidation. That's why we usually let authority figures handle it.

We can't just call this a case of "Welp, these things happen". Somebody died unnecessarily. Many of you are trying to blame it on Martin based on nothing but your racist hunches. Fucking quit it. We can't prove who threw the first punch, so making assumptions is fucking pointless. We do know that Zimmerman was following someone who had done nothing wrong, and this ended in the death of a kid. I'm sorry, you can talk 'till you're blue in the face about how Zimmerman was just trying to look out for his neighborhood and that he had successfully contributed to the capture of past hoodlums, but that doesn't change the fact that the only thing that made Martin "suspicious" was that he was black and wearing a hoodie. "But it's not illegal to follow somebody! It's not illegal to ask someone what they're doing! It's not illegal to be racist!" Sure, but at what point do we have to take responsibility for our actions? If I run into Harlem and yell out "Come and get me, American Inventors!", whoever gets riled up enough to come throw a punch at me will technically be the first one to break the law, right? So does this mean I have no responsibility? Zimmerman's actions lead to an unnecessary death. He should take some responsibility for that.
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You have freedom of speech not freedom from being offended. Walking up to someone or talking to someone is not provoking a fight. Physically restraining them, verbally threatening them, or attacking them is provocation. We have no evidence that Zimmerman did any of those things.
 
Himeo

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Duppin_sl said:
What are you talking about? I'm totally for real. Zimmerman is a goddamn angel, who I think probably was trying to shyly approach Martin to see if he would maybe go get some coffee with him sometime. Strictly platonically though, of course.
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What do you have against homosexuals, Duppin?
 
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Numbers_sl

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Himeo_sl said:
You have freedom of speech not freedom from being offended. Walking up to someone or talking to someone is not provoking a fight. Physically restraining them, verbally threatening them, or attacking them is provocation. We have no evidence that Zimmerman did any of those things.
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You don't necessarily need direct evidence to believe that Zimmerman had every intention of being a roadblock in that kids life from the phone call to dispatch.
 
Noble Savage

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Tanoomba your entire rant is based of the intent to go kill someone. Are you really saying that GZ's intent the whole time was to kill a black person and get away with it? Your fucking dumb.
 
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Gavinrad_sl said:
Spoken like someone who has never been in a fight in his life. If someone is still on top of you after having just beaten the crap out of you, they're still a threat regardless of whether or not they're currently distracted by someone shouting about having called the cops. You don't stop and think 'oh he probably wont continue beating my ass now', in fact you don't have time to stop and think anything. As soon as you regain your senses from having had your head pounded into the pavement, you immediately take whatever actions you have to in order to protect yourself.
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I have to agree with gavin, martin stopped for whatever reason, and that reason good or bad wasnt known to zimmerman so when he got the chance he shot him, it is what it is too bad this wont teach young black men to not have such a me against the world attitude because once he walks, everyone is going to shoot you dumb American Inventors for looking at them wrong.
 
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