Thieves Oil
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Big Phoenix
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Oh wow hold up guys an actual medical professional recommended the chiropractor. You think actual MDs dont recommend useless and in many times completely idiotic things to their patients every single day(pain meds, antibiotics, useless procedures)? Also you think that doctor didnt make some $$$ for referring you to that chiropractor?No, the premise of treating subluxations, which the field was founded on were quackery, but since they now incorporate other physical treatments, and those treatments are sound, this is demonstrably false.
You should probably just stop talking since you keep missing the point that a medical professional specializing in spinal conditions was the one who prescribed the treatments and recommended the chiropractor to my father at the time as an alternative to invasive surgery which was costly, with a long recovery time, and other potential complications that arise from treatments such as fusing vertebral discs together.
At no time did his treatment involve spinal manipulation or attempts to "adjust" or treat subluxations, so no quackery was involved. The treatment is a form of electrical stimulation which relaxes the muscle tissue in the area, allowing the region of the herniated disc to reduce in size, thus relieving the pressure on the nerve that is being pinched, which resolves the pain and relieves the symptoms.
As you can see from this image, a herniated disc occurs when the intervertebral disc bulges out from between two vertebrae and puts pressure on a nerve. This is a fairly common condition, particularly in the lumbar vertebrae, that occurs as people age, particular if they sit a lot for their job. When this occurs, it can press upon a nerve, leading to pain, numbness, and other secondary effects in limbs, as well as reducing flexibility. Often medical professionals opt not to operate to resolve this issue, but rather go the exact route that my father was recommended to take at the time, which is the use of electrical impulses to relax the muscles in the area, gradually reducing the swelling and withdrawing the disc from pressing on the nerve. In fact, this is one of the most common treatments for said condition.
There's literally nothing quackery about it. Chiropractics didn't invent this procedure. They simply apply it. Therefore the position you've taken that this is a form of quackery similar to chiropractic attempts to resolve "subluxations" is simply a position formed from your lack of understanding of the actual issue and procedure.
http://www.aans.org/patient%20inform...ed%20disc.aspx
This is from the American Association of Neurological Surgeons.
Proper procedure was followed, no quackery was involved.
Your chiropractor may be using legitimate medicine on you, but if he was truly a legitimate person he wouldnt call himself a chiropractor.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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You seem to be having trouble even following the most basic aspects of this story at this point.
Big Phoenix
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Shifting goalposts is what happened when chiropractors abandoned their bullshit art and started practicing medically approved physical therapy. This is a dumb semantic argument. Hodj is basically in agreement with everyone here.
You don't need a degree to become a physical therapist and if a physical therapist wants to call themselves a chiropractor who gives a shit.
You don't need a degree to become a physical therapist and if a physical therapist wants to call themselves a chiropractor who gives a shit.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Oh wow hold up guys an actual medical professional recommended the chiropractor. You think actual MDs dont recommend useless and in many times completely idiotic things to their patients every single day(pain meds, antibiotics, useless procedures)? Also you think that doctor didnt make some $$$ for referring yourfatherto that chiropractor?
Yourfatherschiropractor may be using legitimate medicine on you, but if he was truly a legitimate person he wouldnt call himself a chiropractor.
There, I moved them back.
hodj
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I like how you have to run to conspiracy theories to disregard the American Association of Neurological Surgeons and the Mayo Clinic both recommending the therapy as well to continue to troll the issue.
Herniated disk - Mayo Clinic
Like Ancient said, you're just engaged in a shitty semantics argument over names, rather than actually dealing with the situation as it has been explained to you.
The wrong type of treatment for herniated discs
Proper treatment for herniated discs
It doesn't matter what the person who is doing the treatment calls themselves, what matters is that they're following properly prescribed medical treatment as discerned by rigorous examination and medical evaluation combined with proper peer review.
Big Phoenix
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So why would one go through the process of becoming a chiropractor only to practice legitimate medicine? If youre going to provide physical therapy treatments why not just call your self a physical therapist?
hodj
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There are legitimate chiropractic programs. They are trained by accredited universities, have to undergo a pre-med style program that includes very similar requirements to medical school, but have lower GPA requirements to enter than medical school.
Then there are the ones who get their degree from online diploma mills and places like Liberty University and shit.
That's why you go to ones that are prescribed by legitimate medical professionals, and not just any clinic you walk past on the street.
Chiropractor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So its more complex than just "Everyone who calls themselves a chiropractor is a quack", but it is a fact that subluxation "treatment", which was what chiropractics was founded on originally, is nonsense, in the exact same way that alchemical attempts to turn lead into gold are nonsense, but the field of chemistry has moved beyond that.
Chiropractics is fairly new (began in 1895), so its in a time where past bad ideas are being cast off, modern medical techniques are being adopted, and so its a complex issue. The division between "Straight" chiropractic practitioners (people who only use spinal manipulation and still buy into the pseudo science and woo/metaphysics the field was originally founded in) and "mixers" (people who combine aspects of physical therapy, modern medicine, etc. with some spinal manipulation) is why you're getting hung up on the issue and not being able to see there is more nuance there.
Anyway, the treatment my father received was not remotely related to subluxation "treatments" and therefore its really irrelevant. You're hung up on a word, and that's pretty much the root of this discussion. Whether it was a chiropractor or a physical therapist doing the TENS treatment, the fact is that it has been demonstrated as an effective pain reliever and inflammation reducer for spinal neuropathies related to herniated discs, my father's neurological specialist wasn't involved in some vast conspiracy to profit by sending him to a "quack", no one was a "mark" in the situation.
What was done is the typical procedure for treatment. They do an cortisone or other type of pain killer injection for immediate pain, they attempt non invasive medical procedures to relieve the swelling and try to allow the problem to heal naturally, and then only if these practices fail do they proceed to the more severe treatments, like removal of a vertebral disc and fusion of vertebra with a metal disc to stabilize the region, as this type of surgery is not something to be taken lightly, heals slowly, and is generally last resort.
Izo
Tranny Chaser
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Similar situation over here, easier to get into than medicine. As BA students the chiro-quacks follow the same courses as physicians, PE is a separate class. MA studies is where they differentiate for their cand.manu., clinical biomechanics. They intern for a year after this doing god knows what.
This point still stands. It's just a weird thing that happened I guess.
Imagine if you studied and understood personal finance enough to become a financial adviser, opened an office, and then hung a great big neon "Fortune Teller" sign out front.
Izo
Tranny Chaser
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That's not really a fair comparison, Ancient. We have nurses and nurse assistants as well. This is just a step close to physicians for the basics, but a different specialization. Surgeons and internal medicine follow different paths too in the states but with shared basics, no?
iannis
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It's not a bad question. Chiropractors tend to be freelance, as in they're associated with a medical group but they build their own practice. Physical therapists tend to be employed directly by an institution.
Think of it as the difference between a contractor and a consultant.
They are also slightly different fields of study. I think. I don't know offhand where the divergence is and would assume that the study is 90% congruent. I assume that the chirpractor has a more in depth focus on bone alignments, joints, tendons, ligaments and conducting specific procedures which will be useful to his practice. You don't -actually- practice sticking needles into people's spines in med school. That's what clinical experience is for. I have to think it's a different clinical focus.
But you can be a PT with a nursing degree. I don't think a RN can go open up a chiropractors shop willy nilly, and a NP wouldn't. There's a little bit of social status in it, I guess.
Think of it as the difference between a contractor and a consultant.
They are also slightly different fields of study. I think. I don't know offhand where the divergence is and would assume that the study is 90% congruent. I assume that the chirpractor has a more in depth focus on bone alignments, joints, tendons, ligaments and conducting specific procedures which will be useful to his practice. You don't -actually- practice sticking needles into people's spines in med school. That's what clinical experience is for. I have to think it's a different clinical focus.
But you can be a PT with a nursing degree. I don't think a RN can go open up a chiropractors shop willy nilly, and a NP wouldn't. There's a little bit of social status in it, I guess.
Big Phoenix
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You don't in Alberta (or the rest of Canada) for what that's worth. There are licensing requirements of course but no degree needed.
Many do get kinesiology degrees but lots don't.
Void
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It has already kind of been mentioned, but just wanted to throw out that this is essentially just taking what a physical therapist does and incorporating it into their chiropractic routine. I'm sure I'll get crucified for making this analogy like all analogies on the internet do, but it would be akin to a guy selling cinnamilk telling you to also brush your teeth after using the milk; it is a smart thing to do in general, but isn't something specific to the cinnamilk salesman's profession. Hell, you can buy those TENS machines yourself if you feel like it. I guarantee you won't place it as accurately as a trained physical therapist does, and a chiropractor is probably better than a layman too, but you can at least still buy the exact same thing if you want.