True Detective

a_skeleton_03_sl said:

She still wasn't going to throw up and get better from something aerosolized.

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The point is, it could have been anything the show and defenders want it to be to believe the scene! Don't ruin it for them.

I'd throw up too if I was remember being molested! Oh, she intentionally made herself throw up? Well, that's why it cleared her head she's just real smart! Oh, it was aerosol delivery? Well, duh, that's why it was actually a small white pill being shot into her mouth! But Molly doesn't make you... Well, then it was obviously something other than what the skank with experience doing these parties and who had no reason to mislead or lie to another girl said it was, you know, for the convenience of explaining a bullshit scene that could be very simply to make realistic and tense with even a shred of effort.

Really, that entire scene was bad. They managed to make an orgy boring. The guy they attached to her was the most cliche fat old rich guy in the world. Inexplicable drugs and/or reactions to them. The big 'reveal' that she was molested and in a flashback so contrived it was borderline humorous. Sending her into the part for no real reason, with no real plan. Same with the dudes, who had no real stated plan but once they memorize the guard pathing sneaking in is a breeze. So lucky they reach the door right as some main players are having a very loud and expository discussion of their wrongdoing. Keep the contracts in an office behind a 100 year old door lock, not in a safe. Good thing Ani is clear headed after intentionally throwing up whatever it was but don't consider that there's the girl even other detectives need reminded who she is. Oh no, a bad guy, that's okay she's been practicing her knife combos like it's a sword so a-b-up-down ack he's got me by the throat why didn't I just stab him 3 times. Nobody screams, I guess because that totally noir music that had playing that was so great and noir it really helped my immersion and suspension of disbelieving be super noiry strong you know! Running away from guards after they know there's been an intruder/incident but don't shoot at anyone until they see a car. We're on the only road out of there, cut the lights for no fucking reason! Holy shit, these contracts have tons of signatures, not unlike Caspere's appointment book having a ton of appointments we didn't really put together or follow up on! Whose the girl? Well, remember that one time in episode 1...? No? Don't worry, on TWO. EPISODES. LEFT. and everything will be explained.

Some other good scenes though, even forgiving most of them went on 2-4 lines/beats too long. Ray with the redheaded kid was the first time I actually thought he cared, probably because he was acting instead of just reading lines where he says he cares over and over. The opening scene with Velcro and Frank didn't feel like the natural progression from last episode, but if you ignore that it was pretty good and the most chemistry they've had all season with 'don't shoot me' being Vaughns second best line behind 'Geez what happened buddy.'

If anyone disagrees I'm going to butt-fuck your fathers cheese-grated ass on this lawn with mothers headless corpse after snorting an endless pile of coke!

I'm guessing the indications(that we're lead to believe are false) of the land all being shitty for different reasons would drive the price down drastically.

Hardrive was used to black mail and get into the land deal. If the 2 children killed in the Diamond Heist it makes sense that it would be Tony trying to find his parents killers.

Tony was helping Casper do blackmails against Catalyst and somewhere a long the way saw Casper had blue diamonds that matched his parents murder and thats when stuff went down. Casper might have given up Stans name as his partner 20 years ago

TJT_sl said:

Also in this Grand Mystery. How is the land deal supposed to make all of this money for everyone involved? I know it has something to do with a railroad being built. Are they just buying choice realty along the way of it or some shit?

Plot is kind of confusing.

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They were using Frank, in part, and a waste management company as a front to poison a bunch of farming land in the corridor to drive down land prices to then sell at a huge profit to the government for the railroad. Opening scene of the show showed it. The detectives referenced it and I think we got one scene with them asking around about it before figuring surely it was nothing as long as unknown mexes are mexing about in a warehouse after implausibly pawning Casperes stuff. Then it got brought up again when Frank 'sold' off the company and the new owner inexplicably died, and the guy from Santa Clara Railroad turned Catalyst Real Estate seems fishy about it so asks Frank (and the viewer) to again forget about all that and to look for the haddrive instead.

The scene at the orgy house was bad. Before it happened, what could have possibly been their goal? Just a general get information? It was full of so much coincidence. It just so happens on the one night they go there the Russian is signing a deal with Catalyst that Paul just happens to see and that can easily be broken in to? What was the point of Antigone going in when she had no idea the girl was there -- was she going to try and look around at one point? I don't see the point of putting her in danger if they were going to snoop and potentially break in anyway. Also, how does Paul/Ray know that she's in trouble and know exactly what door to meet her at when she's leaving? I mean, I guess the transponder could show the location but I didn't see that there was any communication going on to know the situation (nor did it appear they looked at anything to get her location). It was just a poor way of creating and executing that scene to help advance the plot and character reveals (like Antigone's past abuse).

I was back into the show after last episode and the first half of this one was fine but the orgy house scenes really took me out of it again.

How is the Russian being there a coincidence ? Hes working with Blake/running the girls and trying to get the last deal

Was that the scene where they just happened to discuss their in-depth corruption loud enough someone outside a poorly secured door could listen in on cue like it was a bad mission in Assassin's Creed?

That's not coincidence, that's just great detecting!

I too don't understand why Ani had to be inside. Stealing the contracts seemed to be the main point of all that. And Ani didn't have to be inside the party for that to happen.

Wasnt it so she could get better eyes on the inside and tracking her incase they lost the vehicle? They didnt know what all happens besides lots of hookers

Alex_sl said:

I too don't understand why Ani had to be inside. Stealing the contracts seemed to be the main point of all that. And Ani didn't have to be inside the party for that to happen.

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But there was nothing to indicate they knew about any contracts ahead of time. It was complete luck. They don't even know who the Russian is.

a_skeleton_03_sl said:

We know that as the viewer. The cops didn't know that at all. He didn't even know what he grabbed, just heard some dudes working on some deal and grabbed those papers.

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Ray saw that Blake was working with the russians and they were running these hooker parties with Catalist and other big wigs

Alex_sl said:

I too don't understand why Ani had to be inside. Stealing the contracts seemed to be the main point of all that. And Ani didn't have to be inside the party for that to happen.

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Stealing contracts, that if legit, would have had to be filed publicly with the county or something, right? Or if not legit, would have basically been a bunch of criminals signing napkins saying they're willing to conspire in widespread conspiracy.

Also, as Homsar points out, maybe they were worried they'd not be able to tail a bus? Err, or they needed some way to get confirmation this was a high-powered ultra-elite upscale orgy party with bigwigs, not just your run of the mill $2k-a-night-hooker party without all the people being investigated for corruption in the same mansion. Granted, all the signed contracts would have been enough to link them, but then we wouldn't have gotten to see the orgy that was leaked months ago that Nic is obviously very proud of.


I think was supposed to be a sub-current but sorta failing is these characters are all supposed to have their sympathetic weaknesses; like season 1 where Marty gets back on board because if you hurt kids, he's coming after your ass no matter how much he hates his former partner. They could have written it in that Ani actually cares about protecting women or trying to find the missing girl she repeatedly forgets to care about. One scene of them discussing the plan, Ani arguing she wants to go in, them arguing it's not necessary, and her arguing that she actually cares about finding the missing girl and wants revenge or answers or some shit they'd have to have actually written into the story... well, that would have been good reason, if they'd actually cared to give reasons for these sorts of things.

DickTrickle_sl said:

But there was nothing to indicate they knew about any contracts ahead of time. It was complete luck. They don't even know who the Russian is.

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It gets more complicated, because it was complete luck, and they just happened to be beating/killing guards to sneak in so they could happen to overhear things and get lucky grabbing random paperwork? Did they case the joint and that was the planned escape route, they just didn't happen to mention that in the show, making Ani show up there again seem like a random stroke of dumb luck?

It's a continuing problem with the show is the so-called detectives don't know the shit they should know. It's one thing to subtly manipulate the viewer to keep them in just enough dark to make things mysterious and suspensful. But to manipulate the characters with a script that makes everything happen due to confusion or ignorance is weak.

For instance, Ray knows about the Russian, kinda, right, from him trailing Blake? But he doesn't think to ask Frank more about anything. He tells Frank they were Eastern Bloc women, which should have been an 'ahah' moment where Frank is like no wonder the Russian is getting cold feet but seems to be working with someone else in my organization that is trying to take me down as I've clearly stated several times in the past, and then Ray is like what Russian because Eastern Bloc women and holy shit they bond over clues and break the case! Instead, they just dumbly read their lines and never make sense of the obvious.

Just like nobody connects the dots that a missing girl the age and attractiveness of being a hooker goes missing while working for the 'retreat' Ani's father runs, the same father with pictures of all the key players in a scrapbook connecting them all to a culty sort of institution, with a sister talking about parties up north where everything points, with Caspere being all pervy in the same circles, with phone records from the missing girls old apartment/roomate that link to locations of Caspere's GPS.

So many fucking clues presented as dumb luck coincidences that all seem to come together even as the detectives still don't make the connections.

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:

I don't get the tje big deal about what was grabbed. If it is a contract with signature, it is certainly legal and doesn't spell out the super evil land poisoning plot or anything.

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Yeah, but requesting contracts that have been filed with the county isn't very noir, man.

will anyone be shocked if copchick's dad is the big baddie in all this? soon as he was introduced as this new agey leader type, alarms started going off. have we seen who the unicorn molester guy is?

Homsar_sl said:

Ray saw that Blake was working with the russians and they were running these hooker parties with Catalist and other big wigs

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Is that what we know or what Ray knows? Ray was following Blake and saw him doing hooker deals with some people he had never seen before. How does he connect them with Catalyst when Ray has never seen them before nor (that I recall) does he know that particular Russian had any business with Frank. Ray knows a Catalyst guy wants a video, but that's about it. Moreover, Paul was the one viewing the deal, not Ray, so he definitely doesn't know faces. I think you're confusing what the viewer knows with what the characters could know based on what was shown in the episodes. Though, I think some of it is just sloppy writing as well.

Pitlor told ray about catalist the blackmail from these parties, land deals, Fixing the girls up for the russian

I thought this was a good article.

True Detective,Season 2, Episode 6: Church in Ruins