Twitch.tv

OU Ariakas · Oct 25, 2019

slippery said:
Alright so let me ask you guys this.

What incentive does anyone else have to move to mixer? It's not an established platform, the viewers aren't there. Ninja's numbers have been steadily dropping. While they'll get a tick from Shroud, the same will happen to both of them. Why should any big streamer switch? Microsoft has shown they are willing to give people money, and lots of it, so everyone should hold out for money. How many people can Mixer really buy? Not enough to make a real impact. So people will stay on Twitch because that is where people really actually watch and spend money. I would be willing to be that Ninja's donations have decreased since he switched to Mixer.

By getting people to switch on the money motivation Mixer has pretty much doomed themselves to failure, because others won't switch without the same. There has to be a benefit, and what's the benefit that outweighs the risk, if it isn't just getting paid?

They don't need a ton, they need enough to get people to check Mixer on the reg. I didn't follow Ninja on Twitch so I had no reason to go to Mixer. I do follow Shroud and enjoy some of his games and will check Mixer nightly to see if I want to watch. If I already am there then why would I not look for other streamers I like? Shit, if CobaltStreak (one of @Xevys 1500-5000 average viewer streams) loved to Mixer I'd probably uninstall Twitch since they are the two I watch the most.

slippery · Oct 25, 2019

OU Ariakas said:
They don't need a ton, they need enough to get people to check Mixer on the reg. I didn't follow Ninja on Twitch so I had no reason to go to Mixer. I do follow Shroud and enjoy some of his games and will check Mixer nightly to see if I want to watch. If I already am there then why would I not look for other streamers I like? Shit, if CobaltStreak (one of @Xevys 1500-5000 average viewer streams) loved to Mixer I'd probably uninstall Twitch since they are the two I watch the most.

But that's the thing, why would Cobalt move? What's his motivation that outweighs the real risk of losing viewers and income?

I get

Ravishing thought about new streamers have a chance to maybe grow, but that's only applicable if there are enough people watching in general to give you an audience that gives you anything in the first place. Mixer would have been better off getting like 20 people all at once, with the knowledge among them that they are all being talked to and moving, than just getting 1 here and there.

Ravishing · Oct 25, 2019

I keep hearing about the "they need to get a ton at once" approach... yes, that would be a nice strat but doing it 1 at a time isn't horrible. Everytime a streamer moves it's now news for a week, whereas a big move may have brought an avalanche of viewers right away but if twitch is still dominate the news cycle ends in like a week. idk, i dont see it as a big deal. Do 1 big streamer every 3 months and keep the news cycle rolling, should work out eventually.

mkopec · Oct 25, 2019

slippery said:
But that's the thing, why would Cobalt move? What's his motivation that outweighs the real risk of losing viewers and income?

I get Ravishing thought about new streamers have a chance to maybe grow, but that's only applicable if there are enough people watching in general to give you an audience that gives you anything in the first place. Mixer would have been better off getting like 20 people all at once, with the knowledge among them that they are all being talked to and moving, than just getting 1 here and there.

If they pay enough (supposedly millions) why would you not move? You can always go back when your contract expires.

slippery · Oct 25, 2019

mkopec said:
If they pay enough (supposedly millions) why would you not move? You can always go back when your contract expires.

Trust me, if they paid me that kind of money I'd do a whole lot of shit. That's not my argument. My argument is that now that they are paying people millions, why would you move if you're not getting paid?

Ravishing · Oct 25, 2019

slippery said:
Trust me, if they paid me that kind of money I'd do a whole lot of shit. That's not my argument. My argument is that now that they are paying people millions, why would you move if you're not getting paid?

you dont

slippery · Oct 25, 2019

Ravishing said:
you dont

Which makes my point of why the plan doesn't make sense

Gankak · Oct 25, 2019

slippery said:
Trust me, if they paid me that kind of money I'd do a whole lot of shit. That's not my argument. My argument is that now that they are paying people millions, why would you move if you're not getting paid?

Believe it or not some people don't like the way Twitch handles things. This may be an outlier but I know of a streamer I used to watch who streamed Total War: Warhammer as a twitch partner. He got tired of Twitch and left them to stream on youtube because the audience for that particular game was bigger for him on youtube.

Kiroy · Oct 25, 2019

mkopec said:
You can always go back when your contract expires.

twitch would be retarded to let them back

Ravishing · Oct 25, 2019

slippery said:
Which makes my point of why the plan doesn't make sense

You have a narrow vision of the plan.
Mixer doesn't need every major twitch streamer.
Bring in a few, breed some of your own, generate a viewer base.
Once the base grows, people will come naturally without paying millions.

Streamers will go where they think they can make the most money. The 1500-5000 viewer guy on Twitch probably wont leave twitch, but that guy won't help mixer anyway. Mixer would need 1000 of those guys, or they snipe a few 200k-500k+ (followers) guys and go from there.

slippery · Oct 25, 2019

Ravishing said:
You have a narrow vision of the plan.
Mixer doesn't need every major twitch streamer.
Bring in a few, breed some of your own, generate a viewer base.
Once the base grows, people will come naturally without paying millions.

Streamers will go where they think they can make the most money. The 1500-5000 viewer guy on Twitch probably wont leave twitch, but that guy won't help mixer anyway. Mixer would need 1000 of those guys, or they snipe a few 200k-500k+ (followers) guys and go from there.

I wouldn't call it narrow, I just don't believe it will work. People are inherently resistant to change and don't change to better things due to inertia. Look at how many people still have cable tv. That's making the assumption that Mixer is better than Twitch and has reason to switch in the first place.

I manage a liquor store these days. I can tell you about alternate choices for things that cost less and are in my opinion superior quality, but a large quantity of people are stuck on the brand name they know and unwilling to try something new. These types of switches to Mixer run into the problem of streamers aren't generally unique, and they don't stream 24/7. That person goes offline, people go watch someone they know on Twitch. Now when Shroud comes online again do they see it while they are watching someone on Twitch? That is why Mixer needed a bunch of people at once, to keep people in the platform in the first place. So they always have someone to watch.

Ravishing · Oct 25, 2019

slippery said:
People are inherently resistant to change and don't change to better things due to inertia. Look at how many people still have cable tv. That's making the assumption that Mixer is better than Twitch and has reason to switch in the first place.

So are you saying streamers don't want to switch, or viewers, or both?

Viewers will go to where their preferred streamers/games are.
People still subscribed to Netflix even though they had a Cable subscription. There isn't a reason to be exclusive to 1 service.
And now people are being presented with Amazon, Apple, Disney, etc.
A good amount of people went to Android from Apple.

Streaming is still at extremely early stages.

Twitch Statistics & Charts

Track all imaginable twitch statistics with TwitchTracker

twitchtracker.com

Peak viewership on Twitch is below 4 million concurrent.
Netflix has nearly 140 million subscribers.
(Netflix concurrents is tough to find, Netflix is ~26% of downstream worldwide while twitch is 3.5%, so ~7x larger, maybe ~28million concurrent? bitrate would alter this number)

Gaming is only starting to enter the mainstream.

There's plenty of room for growth, enough to support multiple platforms.
Age will play a role.. maybe people are resistant to change, but young blood can still be scooped up.

Their plan might suck, but I have a hard time believing Mixer won't be a relevant platform in the near future.

slippery · Oct 25, 2019

Ravishing said:
So are you saying streamers don't want to switch, or viewers, or both?

Viewers will go to where their preferred streamers/games are.
People still subscribed to Netflix even though they had a Cable subscription. There isn't a reason to be exclusive to 1 service.
And now people are being presented with Amazon, Apple, Disney, etc.
A good amount of people went to Android from Apple.

Streaming is still at extremely early stages.

Twitch Statistics & Charts

Track all imaginable twitch statistics with TwitchTracker

twitchtracker.com

Peak viewership on Twitch is below 4 million concurrent.
Netflix has nearly 140 million subscribers.

Gaming is only starting to enter the mainstream.

There's plenty of room for growth, enough to support multiple platforms.
Age will play a role.. maybe people are resistant to change, but young blood can still be scooped up.

Their plan might suck, but I have a hard time believing Mixer won't be a relevant platform in the near future.

To me I just look at things like the streaming services. CBS Go vs Disney +. CBS go basically tried to launch on the back on a singular known IP in Star Trek Discovery, and their service is doing god aweful. Disney is going to launch with a shit ton of stuff (Nearly a century of movies and cartoons, Marvel, Star Wars, etc) and already has a lot of us subscribed for years.

I don't think either of us is right or wrong, and time will be the true answer.

Edit: and to clarify what I mean by staying on a platform is that for convenience since most people watch a lot of streamers they'll just stay on twitch since that is where most of the people they watch are. It's easier when someone goes offline to just look at who else is online then it is to look at another platform. Look at it like this, how is youtube streaming really doing?

Xevy · Oct 25, 2019

OU Ariakas said:
He's not going to ~~fuck you~~ stream Apex with you.

And seriously, he was a pro until he met his financial goals and now he's just chill? What if Shroud's goal was 10 mil and now he is going to be chill? You just like this Moon dude better than any other streamer and that is fine because you do you. However, trying to blast other streamers and assuming motives when you have no fucking clue how or why they make choices just makes you sound like an idiot.

Who hurt you?

Mixer is trying to build their base top-down. That doesn't work. They need to incentivize the mid tier and up-and-comers who can help build their viewer base. Those are the people who network with each other, raid each other, play games together etc which gets viewers moved around on multiple streamers. Shroudbois will watch Shroud and when hes done, turn it off. The only growth is his channel. They need to acquire an entire sector like ALL minecraft streamers or certain CS/FN/OW teams. I watched shroud almost every day, but I probably won't now. Half the games he plays aren't FPS anymore so it's like Michael Jordan playing baseball. If a new BR came out I might, but Twitch would have to have zero streamers I enjoy streaming it and I only follow like 15 streamers.

Shroud basically went for the lump sum after winning the lotto. It's probably less than he could have made in the same time at Twitcg, but it's guaranteed and it's instant.

Malakriss · Oct 25, 2019

The thing about mixer is there's nothing to "lock you in" or even lure you in. You're not subscribing to the platform you can literally only use it for ninja or shroud and nothing else. It's like the Supermansion show on Sony's crackle service everyone went "what the fuck is Crackle?" "Sony has a free streaming service?" watched new episodes when they were released and peaced out.

jooka · Oct 25, 2019

I fucking hate what twitch has become, the more people that move the mixer the better.

Cybsled · Oct 25, 2019

Mixer move en masse would require Twitch pulling a YouTube and fucking over monetization for streamers, while Mixer offers a better deal.

goishen · Oct 25, 2019

I've been following this as of late, since the stuff about BadBunny has come out. I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps ship next. That way he can go argue himself to death about the minutiae of shit that's being flung from a cow asshole.

goishen · Oct 25, 2019

Also, this.

chthonic-anemos · Oct 25, 2019

goishen said:
I've been following this as of late, since the stuff about BadBunny has come out. I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps ship next. That way he can go argue himself to death about the minutiae of shit that's being flung from a cow asshole.

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OU Ariakas

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Ravishing

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mkopec

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Xevy

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