Untitled Alien Series

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lgarthy

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PS- it's okay to have gay and trans characters if they add or are essential to the story. Velazquez is a great example of that. It's when you have to add characters into a story based on a predetermined ration (a la most of Netflix's universe these days). It's even MORE annoying when, in the process of checking off the PC requirements. you end up with combined characters-- e.g., the almost-always-present gay-or-trans black and Hindu female(?) character that is inconsistent with his/her/their cultural context. SO FUCKING ANNOYING!

It would be like finding a patch of dark matter on your street. But there "they" are in every fucking Netflix show...
 
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lgarthy

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Ossoi said:
I think both Alien and Aliens are a strong counter to the "you don't like strong female characters in modern movies because you're racist, sexist, white man" line.

Nobody complained about Ripley being the only survivor in Alien, nor did they complain about her being a female action hero in Aliens. Likewise, nobody complains about Vazquez or the female pilot or the female medic. Presumably because it makes sense in the context of a movie set in 2179 that advances in technology allow women to serve on the front line, but more importantly the movies don't beat the audience over the head with the "strong female" stuff - they are just there and nobody bats an eyelid, apart from the in-squad banter with Hudson.

You could say the same about Sarah Connor too
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BUT-- no one needed to see Ripley in her super-tiny panties! But, in fact, being an extraordinary character AND being sexy and being female AND enjoying lingerie is the perfect storm. Even Arnold never pulled that off. And he never can. It is one of the innate tenets of being female. Thank God for that. It never has to be destroyed. Even the greatest females in myth/history can be sexy too. Think Helen of Troy or Athena would ever shop at Lane Bryant?

pfffft!
 
Mist

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lgarthy said:
PS- it's okay to have gay and trans characters if they add or are essential to the story. Velazquez is a great example of that. It's when you have to add characters into a story based on a predetermined ration (a la most of Netflix's universe these days). It's even MORE annoying when, in the process of checking off the PC requirements. you end up with combined characters-- e.g., the almost-always-present gay-or-trans black and Hindu female(?) character that is inconsistent with his/her/their cultural context. SO FUCKING ANNOYING!

It would be like finding a patch of dark matter on your street. But there "they" are in every fucking Netflix show...
Click to expand...
"I hate when writers use seemingly arbitrary rules to come up with when to include non-normative characters. So here are my arbitrary rules as to when it's okay to include non-normative characters!"
 
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Ossoi

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Mist said:
"I hate when writers use seemingly arbitrary rules to come up with when to include non-normative characters. So here are my arbitrary rules as to when it's okay to include non-normative characters!"
Click to expand...

is this straw man of yours a non binary trans retard?
 
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OU Ariakas

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Mist said:
"I hate when writers use seemingly arbitrary rules to come up with when to include non-normative characters. So here are my arbitrary rules as to when it's okay to include non-normative characters!"
Click to expand...

No one gives a shit about "non-normative" characters if they fit the story being told. The problem with those characters for the last 5-8 years is that they have to verbally remind you how "NON-NORMATIVE" THEY ARE EVER SINGLE SECOND THEY ARE ON SCREEN.

Vasquez worked perfectly because she was a fucking cold-blooded soldier. You could tell she was actually the more cool and collected one in the her and Drake duo. The joke scene actually gave the entire squad a personality and showed that she was an integral member of it; they were busting her balls with something they knew used to get under her skin, not calling her weak.

Her and Drake panning their 50-cal guns on the arm attachments and then coming to at-rest is one of the baddest-ass scenes in any movie ever. Fuck that movie is great.
 
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LiquidDeath

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Ossoi said:
View attachment 511813
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jenette goldstein badass GIF
 
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Homsar

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lgarthy said:
Prometheus could never have been a good film... No way.
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Change WW, make every character not retarded would easily make the movie better.

Instead we got idiots jumping in a crocodile pit. I don't want to rewatch the movie but if I recall it was coaching retards and questioning how they there

The monkey or dog they sent in space were smarter than those idiots
 
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Runnen

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lgarthy said:
Prometheus could never have been a good film... No way.

Alien is among "the greats" in horror/science fiction cinema. A substantial part of that was involving H.R. Giger in the Alien design and "biomechanics." Giger was a (albeit heroin-addicted) genius.

Aliens, however, is also among the strangest of movie sequels because the film was a genre flip from horror (that happened to also be science fiction) to an action/adventure film (that also happened to be science fiction). The "egg-laying" mother alien, was never part of the H.R. Giger Alien design, but it certainly worked within the confines of the movie. Giger had arranged an entire life-cycle to the Alien. Yes, you can look it up or even find it in his published etchings/artwork. There was a cut scene from the movie (that you can probably find it online somewhere) that showed Dallas being consumed and turned into an "egg." It was felt that it was one more terrible horror in a film that already had just the right amount of scares and gore.

Ret-conning the Alien biology and attempting to force-fit it into a larger framework was one of the MANY flaws that doomed Prometheus. Aliens showed you didn't have to stay true to an internal mythology to make a great film. Even if that internal mythology was extensive. Why Prometheus tried to re-do that still makes zero sense. There was no need...

The other issue that is completely unforgivable in Prometheus is the complete lack of science throughout the film. Let's not be safe or even remotely scientific in (just about) every decision we make in the movie (from checking the atmosphere before attempting to breathe it, etc). You don't have to be a scientist to make a good science fiction movie. Plus, you can use unexplainable non-scientific things (Star Trek does ALL THE TIME) like transporters and warp speed and Time Travel and genesis devices (and have a jolly good time at the movies). You CANNOT, however, be consistently, unfathomably stupid and still have a good science-fiction movie. Unless, of course, that is your goal. Then go for it-- No one minds when you do stupid well (eg,. "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure," "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle," etc).

Prometheus was an abhorrence in film-making, story-telling, myth/world-building, etc. It failed on every conceivable level.

You don't need to go back to "Alien" DNA to make a good new Alien story. You just cannot be as moronic as Prometheus. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that AI could generate a half-decent Alien story with just a few prompts. It takes real human beings to fail at the level that Promethues does.
Click to expand...

Not only was Prometheus a mostly terrible film (some visuals were cool), but they didn't even REALLY try to re-do the mythology, they half-assed it in the worst, most embarassing way. Ridley Scott famously criticized James Cameron's sequel for having turned his cool mysterious alien from Alien into a super-evolved bug species by adding a queen and a hive.. okay, so you decide to make your own movies decades later to fullfill YOUR vision, okay sure...

So if you follow Prometheus, the origins of the xenomorph are :

1) black mutagen goo > 2) infects someone and turns them into a zombie (Fefield was supposed to turn into a more xeno-looking thing but they made him a zombie in the finished film so I'm not counting it)

BUT.. if someone just dips a droplet in your water glass, you get infected but slowly.. and then you pass it on sexually... > 3) if you are female, the embryo develops super quicky in your womb (can it infect males? Who knows!) > 4) the embryo bursts out (or is removed cleanly in the film) > the developped facehugger (or whatever the fuck that was in the film) catches a humanoid (in the film it was an Engineer and not a human.. you know we are 100% genetically identical even though they are 8 feet tall white giants) > 5) a new creature bursts out of said humanoid which the film calls a Deacon. It has vague similarities to a xenomorph due to an elongated head (but sharp and pointy unlike the xenos) and a goblin shark mouth (instead of the xeno secondary proboscis-jaw).

Except in the film, inside the mutagen goo urn chamber of the Engineer temple, there's clearly engravings and frescas of the xenomorph we know from the older films. So how did those ever happen before if the sequel, Covenant, says that they were only made from David's fucking with the black goo for years until he created the first egg from the corpse of Noomi Rapace?

Let's not even mention how the incubation times are completely fucked up in the recent films (I don't mean AVP or AVP Requiem because those are kind of arcade-style fun premises that just want action, but in Covenant the actual xenomorph incubation of the religious captain dude takes like 10 minutes... and what comes out looks NOTHING like the chestburster of the original film, it's supposed to be a kind of snake-looking larvae that later grows into the familiar xenomorph but instead we get a teeny-weeny fully-formed miniature xeno..)

Shit just makes no sense. Ridley is an old drunk and should stop embarassing himself. This show will probably be at best half-decent or completely awful and it would probably STILL be an improvement over how Ridley massacred his own franchise.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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Ossoi said:
I think both Alien and Aliens are a strong counter to the "you don't like strong female characters in modern movies because you're racist, sexist, white man" line.

Nobody complained about Ripley being the only survivor in Alien, nor did they complain about her being a female action hero in Aliens. Likewise, nobody complains about Vazquez or the female pilot or the female medic. Presumably because it makes sense in the context of a movie set in 2179 that advances in technology allow women to serve on the front line, but more importantly the movies don't beat the audience over the head with the "strong female" stuff - they are just there and nobody bats an eyelid, apart from the in-squad banter with Hudson.

You could say the same about Sarah Connor too
Click to expand...
I think people complain when it just gets shoehorned in, especially when they're poorly we characters. It's never bothered me that Ripley was the protagonist and the first two movies, and the same goes with Sarah Connor. What's more annoying though is when all of these idiots out there women of them ever been portrayed in a heroic role for some BS, and now we're doing it for the first time and are crappy film. I think that's what really pisses people off, including myself.

You know what the answer is, just don't watch that shitty movie or TV show.
 
Dr.Retarded

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OU Ariakas said:
No one gives a shit about "non-normative" characters if they fit the story being told. The problem with those characters for the last 5-8 years is that they have to verbally remind you how "NON-NORMATIVE" THEY ARE EVER SINGLE SECOND THEY ARE ON SCREEN.

Vasquez worked perfectly because she was a fucking cold-blooded soldier. You could tell she was actually the more cool and collected one in the her and Drake duo. The joke scene actually gave the entire squad a personality and showed that she was an integral member of it; they were busting her balls with something they knew used to get under her skin, not calling her weak.

Her and Drake panning their 50-cal guns on the arm attachments and then coming to at-rest is one of the baddest-ass scenes in any movie ever. Fuck that movie is great.
Click to expand...
That's it.

If it's a well-written character that's believable and the audience can empathize with, I don't really care about their gender or whatever, just make them likable. As goofy as Stephen King has become, I've read his On Writing book a couple of times, and his one real tenant is you have to have believable characters that take on a life of their own. If you can do that, you're golden, and at least according to him the story kind of writes itself. Place your characters into a circumstance, and if they're developed well enough, you'll know we're having an idea of what they're going to do.

I think a lot of really successful authors or writers feel his way, her books or movies are super successful because people believe whatever characters are real, been having an emotional attachment to the events that unfold around them.
 
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Ossoi

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Chanur said:
She has massive tiddys and owns a lingerie shop in LA.
Click to expand...

now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west
A lingerie shop where your girl gets undressed
The bra's make em look like balloons on her chest
Pack a johnny for your pecker in the city of sex

We in that Sunshine state with a big ass seat
The shop where you never find the changing room empty
 
lgarthy

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Runnen said:
Not only was Prometheus a mostly terrible film (some visuals were cool), but they didn't even REALLY try to re-do the mythology, they half-assed it in the worst, most embarassing way. Ridley Scott famously criticized James Cameron's sequel for having turned his cool mysterious alien from Alien into a super-evolved bug species by adding a queen and a hive.. okay, so you decide to make your own movies decades later to fullfill YOUR vision, okay sure...

So if you follow Prometheus, the origins of the xenomorph are :

1) black mutagen goo > 2) infects someone and turns them into a zombie (Fefield was supposed to turn into a more xeno-looking thing but they made him a zombie in the finished film so I'm not counting it)

BUT.. if someone just dips a droplet in your water glass, you get infected but slowly.. and then you pass it on sexually... > 3) if you are female, the embryo develops super quicky in your womb (can it infect males? Who knows!) > 4) the embryo bursts out (or is removed cleanly in the film) > the developped facehugger (or whatever the fuck that was in the film) catches a humanoid (in the film it was an Engineer and not a human.. you know we are 100% genetically identical even though they are 8 feet tall white giants) > 5) a new creature bursts out of said humanoid which the film calls a Deacon. It has vague similarities to a xenomorph due to an elongated head (but sharp and pointy unlike the xenos) and a goblin shark mouth (instead of the xeno secondary proboscis-jaw).

Except in the film, inside the mutagen goo urn chamber of the Engineer temple, there's clearly engravings and frescas of the xenomorph we know from the older films. So how did those ever happen before if the sequel, Covenant, says that they were only made from David's fucking with the black goo for years until he created the first egg from the corpse of Noomi Rapace?

Let's not even mention how the incubation times are completely fucked up in the recent films (I don't mean AVP or AVP Requiem because those are kind of arcade-style fun premises that just want action, but in Covenant the actual xenomorph incubation of the religious captain dude takes like 10 minutes... and what comes out looks NOTHING like the chestburster of the original film, it's supposed to be a kind of snake-looking larvae that later grows into the familiar xenomorph but instead we get a teeny-weeny fully-formed miniature xeno..)

Shit just makes no sense. Ridley is an old drunk and should stop embarassing himself. This show will probably be at best half-decent or completely awful and it would probably STILL be an improvement over how Ridley massacred his own franchise.
Click to expand...
As I said-- it takes human beings to fuck up something this badly. As detailed and correct as your observations are, there are probably 20-fold inconsistencies and 100-fold stupidities in that awful film. It angers me just thinking of how badly they fucked-up the Alien universe. I recall being viscerally upset when I saw the film on it's opening week at a stadium-seating theater.

And yes, you can argue successfully that Aliens fucked-up the mythology too. But it was a bad-ass film! It's ironically odd how we can look past the obvious PC-elements of that film. For it's day it was also trying to be forcefully "progressive" with it's female/mommy tropes. But not in the horrbly over- nauseating way modern films/series/media does.

If you tried to fuck-up a film as badly as Prometheus, you would likely end up with a smash hit (a la "The Producers.").
 
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P

pwe

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Dr.Retarded said:
How many of the crew do you think will be gay or trans? I'm guessing at least two maybe 3. Could be the android is androgynous.
I'll admit, I'd enjoy a faithful series in the universe, but as others have said, I just don't think Hollywood has the capacity to capture what made the original movies so great. The roadmap was there with the comics, but everybody's got to have their own original interpretation so they can create their special story to tell.
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Honestly, the whole universe promotes xenophobia. It's just not ok in 2024.
 
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RobXIII

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I think they should use the Gibson Alien 3 script. I found a fun read about it on wordpress:


alienseries.wordpress.com

Cold Wars: William Gibson’s Alien III

Starlog #128, March 1988 Alien III was inevitable. After the commercial and critical smash that was Aliens, Twentieth Century Fox turned to Brandywine Productions for more bottled lightning. Though…
alienseries.wordpress.com alienseries.wordpress.com
 
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Dr.Retarded

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RobXIII said:
I think they should use the Gibson Alien 3 script. I found a fun read about it on wordpress:


alienseries.wordpress.com

Cold Wars: William Gibson’s Alien III

Starlog #128, March 1988 Alien III was inevitable. After the commercial and critical smash that was Aliens, Twentieth Century Fox turned to Brandywine Productions for more bottled lightning. Though…
alienseries.wordpress.com alienseries.wordpress.com
Click to expand...
Too bad they can't do it now since the actors are too old. There's an actual pretty good audio acted version on audible with multiple narrators and sound effects, but I think I got for free when they were doing one of their audible original things.

I guess you could try to replace the actors but I just don't think that's going to work considering how iconic they are at least in that universe.

Alien III: An Audible Original Drama https://a.co/d/4QpirbC
 
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