VALORANT - Riot Games

gauze · Apr 25, 2020

Lol, I wouldn't try to convince you or anyone to play or that it is 'good' given the previous discussion.. I'm just sitting here waiting to see if it yields results, or will cheating be rampant on a F2P game.

Though not related, but cheats have come in many different ways.. I think the most 'impressive' was I believe, KQLY in a LAN tournament.. had it injected on a tournament PC via Steam Workshop under the disguise of a aim training map I believe. It was a VAC ban a couple months later when they essentially discovered it and was followed by a wave of professionals being VAC banned. I know there is a plethora of services that sell premium cheats that range in the couple hundreds of dollars or have monthly fees. If it combats it with effectiveness; then I won't mind.

Nothing is more scarier than a person who is actually good at the game, and uses cheats. It's not about getting the top frag, or doing some myg0t troll shit to infuriate.. but to win huge cash pots. I'm sure we have all had that friend who sat there trying to convince us they were just that good while trying to keep their cheats under wraps.

Decent video about the cheats available for OW.

and the infamous KQLY moment.

But at the end of the day, I get your stance; and see why. It's just a war between developers and programmers.. is it aggressive, yes, is it excessive, maybe, will it have results better than MW, CSGO, OW, PUBG, or whatever other FPS you throw at it; maybe? maybe not?

Regarding the GPU thing, its beyond me; I do know at one point in time, there was a graphic exploit in CSGO where you essentially could remove smokes client side. In classic CS1.6, if you ran on Software rather than OpenGL; smokes were transparent.. thus why at the beginning of a competitive match with CAL or CEVO, you were required to meet in mid.. throw smokes, take screenshots of that and screenshots of status information in console. I think there was something specific regarding disconnects, but I can't remember as it didn't happen often.

TecKnoe · Apr 26, 2020

gauze said:
Lol, I wouldn't try to convince you or anyone to play or that it is 'good' given the previous discussion.. I'm just sitting here waiting to see if it yields results, or will cheating be rampant on a F2P game.

Though not related, but cheats have come in many different ways.. I think the most 'impressive' was I believe, KQLY in a LAN tournament.. had it injected on a tournament PC via Steam Workshop under the disguise of a aim training map I believe. It was a VAC ban a couple months later when they essentially discovered it and was followed by a wave of professionals being VAC banned. I know there is a plethora of services that sell premium cheats that range in the couple hundreds of dollars or have monthly fees. If it combats it with effectiveness; then I won't mind.

Nothing is more scarier than a person who is actually good at the game, and uses cheats. It's not about getting the top frag, or doing some myg0t troll shit to infuriate.. but to win huge cash pots. I'm sure we have all had that friend who sat there trying to convince us they were just that good while trying to keep their cheats under wraps.

Decent video about the cheats available for OW.

and the infamous KQLY moment.

But at the end of the day, I get your stance; and see why. It's just a war between developers and programmers.. is it aggressive, yes, is it excessive, maybe, will it have results better than MW, CSGO, OW, PUBG, or whatever other FPS you throw at it; maybe? maybe not?

Regarding the GPU thing, its beyond me; I do know at one point in time, there was a graphic exploit in CSGO where you essentially could remove smokes client side. In classic CS1.6, if you ran on Software rather than OpenGL; smokes were transparent.. thus why at the beginning of a competitive match with CAL or CEVO, you were required to meet in mid.. throw smokes, take screenshots of that and screenshots of status information in console. I think there was something specific regarding disconnects, but I can't remember as it didn't happen often.

i was that guy at one point early when i started playing 1.5 around 12
only thing thats changed in 20 years is the price, back then 90% of them were free and undetectable for a long time i never paid for one and was never banned.

its easily doable so a streamer could cheat and you would have no idea, i actually wonder about alot of them tbh if you stand to make that much money and never have to show up to an offline tourney whats 200$ a month thats not much people spend more on dumber shit, this is actually something to make you good money tbh ive thought about doing it.

id imagine eventually the comments would come "oh you never play on LAN with a pro team" but those will be far n few from the fanboys youd have in chat for doing insane shit

im not sure how you stop a smart hacker though one that will use a VPN and such? hardware ban? lobby for only cheaters? it being f2p almost invites people to cheat because they have nothing to lose

Noodleface · Apr 26, 2020

I'm not really surprised by those comments given how often you were banned in wow for botting

gauze · Apr 26, 2020

Noodleface said:
I'm not really surprised by those comments given how often you were banned in wow for botting

LOL. Definitely too early to laugh that hard.

On another side note, relevant or not.. the punishment for cheating has also gone further, from lawsuits(Fortnite) to jail time(more so in China); far beyond just the banned from the game, bye. I think the first instance was with WoW actually, sometime between vanilla and burning crusade.. but it has become a more norm in the late 20-teens. I'd imagine the extreme stance is to save their asses from making lawsuits, which could potentially spawn other lawsuits; given backdoor exposures. Regardless, the most I remember from playing PUBG in 2016/17 was literally all about China#1, Region Lock, and "fucking Chinese hackers."

From the video above, OW apparently added the CSGO-like system "Overwatch" to help increase finding hackers. Basically it's just peer VoD review informing whatever QA department to look into it further than just relying on automated systems.. because so far in the past, they pretty much suck; huge wave of hackers until said hack is exposed, then massive ban.. rinse repeat. Process can take months at a time.

I wouldn't mind games adopting CSGO's prime queue. Basically account linked to your phone number.. but thats the only other method I know of. As said before, I think Valve still won't play ball with ESEA or Faceit, and share anti-cheat info.

Noodleface · Apr 26, 2020

The nice thing about OW is now you can view any vod on any console with a 5-character key. Makes reviewing super easy.

xzi · Apr 26, 2020

CSGO Overwatch is(was?) fantastic, and it's interesting how much VAC has evolved over time because now when I do OW cases (granted I haven't been playing the last year or so) it's almost always a blatant cheater whereas before I'd get a lot of cases that you couldn't quite tell.

It's also another classic valve "just let the community take care of it" has been their motto since day 1 and somehow it even works when it comes to banning cheaters.

Lenaldo · Apr 27, 2020

xzi said:
CSGO Overwatch is(was?) fantastic, and it's interesting how much VAC has evolved over time because now when I do OW cases (granted I haven't been playing the last year or so) it's almost always a blatant cheater whereas before I'd get a lot of cases that you couldn't quite tell.

It's also another classic valve "just let the community take care of it" has been their motto since day 1 and somehow it even works when it comes to banning cheaters.

Overwatch does a good job catching blatant hackers, but its not going to catch the good ones. For one, the VODs are at 30 tick or something crazy low so you won't see details.

Unfortunately it's an arms race and the cheaters have a much easier job especially with the limitations on anti-cheat. Look at Valorant's vanguard causing so much butthurt yet a lot of CSGO cheats run in ring0. People that are going to cheat don't mind and that's why they will always be more effective. They need to go after the developers much like Blizzard has and also make the cost of being caught much higher. HWID banning is better than what steam does, but is also easily spoofed. Ultimately for Valve, there's no incentive to stop the cheaters from buying new accounts so I doubt they ever go that route.

I like Valve's AI approach as I think it's pretty clever to look for patterns - one thing that is for certain is no software is truly "random" like a human is. I'm suspect how many games it can really review given bandwidth limitations but it's a cool start. I think trustfactor has been a pretty good thing too and would like to see it expanded. If I get killed by someone on a 15 year old account with a 1k inventory and 2k+ hours, I typically assume he is just better than me or got lucky. However, if its a level 1 acct with no skins and 10 hours played it's pretty disheartening.

gauze · Apr 27, 2020

While rare in my first hand experience/knowledge, and my friend will state its more common than you think.. But I had a friend who was a big skin trader, and would 'pay me' to either boost his account or carry him into higher ranks for trading/advertising. Mostly before the economy crash, so idk about now.. But there were a fuck ton of hackers on accounts that were >5digit, 1k+ inventory, and a few 1000hrs. And I mean like, haha wanna see something funny kinda hacks.

The one I know of specifically had an inventory worth about 8k, dragon lores and .0001 whatever knives. Played it off like he didn't cheat, despite being blatantly obvious; mostly due to rage moments where he'd pop off and try to play it off like skill. Went on for months, friend kept him around because of trading. Eventually one day when we were all playing PUBG, we learned his CSGO acct got vac banned.. And that 8k inventory got reduced to 0. I forget exactly what happen to the skins, I just think he has them but no access to the market. He tried to tell us it was for some f2p game that got vac banned, and it effected all of his steam games and so on.

I'll ask him if he still has a running list of accts that were vac with expensive inventories.

Kirun · Apr 27, 2020

Constant(and easy, in some cases)hacking in modern FPS games on the PC has turned one of my favorite genres into one of my least. I saw it in Battlefield 5 constantly, PUBG, CS:Go, etc. While F2P can be great as a "check this out" type of thing, it allows the barrier of entry to be so low that this shit becomes rampant. It also doesn't help that developers either don't give a shit, or simply don't have the resources to combat so many people trying to cheat the system.

As an anecdotal experience with this, I had a buddy of mine who I thought was an absolute god at FPS games. He used to give me constant shit when we'd play because I'm definitely not as good as he was. Whereas he'd often pull us through a situation where we were significantly outnumbered, I'd rarely be able to do the same. The "my back is getting sore" jokes were unending, but it was all in good fun and I'd have a laugh at myself. Also, the constant shaming got me to go full try-hard and at one point during the height of our Overwatch days, we were solid Diamond and would occasionally flirt with Masters rank.

Well, we go to a rock festival a couple years ago and I bring my laptop to watch Netflix at the hotel/play some graphically aged games. We go to fire up Netflix and I forgot that I didn't renew my subscription, but my buddy says no problem, he'll just log into his. He forgot his password but just logs into his google account instead, because he had it autosaved. Well, about a year or so goes by and I bust out the laptop to multi-box on the Selo's TLP when it came out. For whatever reason, I accidentally clicked my gmail bookmark(probably muscle memory as I check it often for work)on the laptop after booting it up. Well, it just so happens to still be logged into my buddy's google account and in his e-mail were probably 30+ e-mails from various hacker sites/groups. I check his search history and it's littered with "cheats for X" or "hacks for X" style searches for almost every multiplayer game we've ever played.

He used to constantly tease me as being "past my prime"(I'm 35 and he's 26)and always works in "ok boomer" jokes. So, I screenshot the search history and e-mails, send it to him on Discord and say, "I may be past my prime, but at least what little skill I have is legitimate". He banned me from Discord and we haven't talked since.

Xevy · Apr 27, 2020

Yeah, definitely a lot of people like this. I posted a clip in the CoD thread about a guy who won the game and I called him out for cheating. He acted shocked for about 3 seconds and then said "Okay, so I use no recoil because---" and I just left before he could try and justify it. He was using a toggle (body at least) and no-recoil. Don't think he had ESP, because he was oblivious to shit I could manually figure out. He also sounded about 45 years old. A lot of games like this people with insecurity issues who can't deal with sucking more over time just HAVE to be competitive even if something else is doing it for them. It's all an ego thing. I'm pretty good at shooters, but I KNOW there are 17 year old kids I'll never be able to beat. That's just how it is. I'm not going to cheat or anything, I'm just going to savor the earned victories I get when I actually do beat them.

The funny thing is cheaters in these games CAN lose. I watch most of the blatant CoD people play the game out and they lose about 50% of the time. Just the nature of the beast with low TTK games. However in shit like Apex when they can save themselves in bad situations, if they're actual competent players, they'll just always win. Some of these guys are actually good players and I guess they're just SO competitive they NEED to win. Kinda fucked up. Like Pro Athletes that do hoodrat shit when they're literal millionaires because they have egos and shit and then lose everything.

Got this beta, CS was never something I enjoyed so I doubt I'll ever install it. Add that with CS go community + LoL community? No fucking thanks.

Noodleface · Apr 27, 2020

Reminds me of someone giving me shit in wow because I levelled slow and had blue boots, yet that person was level botting AND rotation botting and got banned. Must be some weird psychology behind it

xzi · Apr 27, 2020

It's a start, I guess. Still don't like that they openly say Vanguard can just block whatever it wants on your computer though.

TecKnoe · Apr 27, 2020

Noodleface said:
I'm not really surprised by those comments given how often you were banned in wow for botting

I was banned once in WoW and i botted for over 6 years, and that was because i came back from a long break and didnt do my research and went back to the old bot i was using, was never banned in any other game for hacking just to clarify since you and deathwing still seem to have a hard on for it

TecKnoe · Apr 27, 2020

also if you really wanna go as far as you can without being a "hacker/cheater" you can just make a mouse macro that will give you no recoil as long as you own a mouse that cost more than 30$ shit i bet even those can do it, i dont even do that cheating to me was something i did as a kid much like gauze buddy, it made playin in pugs fun, i did it in online scrims but i also went to lan tournaments and didnt cheat and i wasnt ass horrible because believe it or not using wallhack for a bit gave me a bit of insight to where people camp 90% of the time and what can/cant be walled so i gained some info, y aim suffered for a bit of course but before a LAN we would practice and id not use the cheat so call it whatever you want. i think hacking is way more rampant now before it was more of a hidden society you kinda had to be invited to or stumble upon it it really wasnt like today where you can literally find a hack for everything jus by searching google and shelling out money to them

TecKnoe · Apr 27, 2020

Xevy said:
Yeah, definitely a lot of people like this. I posted a clip in the CoD thread about a guy who won the game and I called him out for cheating. He acted shocked for about 3 seconds and then said "Okay, so I use no recoil because---" and I just left before he could try and justify it. He was using a toggle (body at least) and no-recoil. Don't think he had ESP, because he was oblivious to shit I could manually figure out. He also sounded about 45 years old. A lot of games like this people with insecurity issues who can't deal with sucking more over time just HAVE to be competitive even if something else is doing it for them. It's all an ego thing. I'm pretty good at shooters, but I KNOW there are 17 year old kids I'll never be able to beat. That's just how it is. I'm not going to cheat or anything, I'm just going to savor the earned victories I get when I actually do beat them.

The funny thing is cheaters in these games CAN lose. I watch most of the blatant CoD people play the game out and they lose about 50% of the time. Just the nature of the beast with low TTK games. However in shit like Apex when they can save themselves in bad situations, if they're actual competent players, they'll just always win. Some of these guys are actually good players and I guess they're just SO competitive they NEED to win. Kinda fucked up. Like Pro Athletes that do hoodrat shit when they're literal millionaires because they have egos and shit and then lose everything.

Got this beta, CS was never something I enjoyed so I doubt I'll ever install it. Add that with CS go community + LoL community? No fucking thanks.

find 4 others and game with them, find discords that hold scrims i have a few so far, i try to always play custom because if i 5 stack its a stomp, and if i solo Q games tend to be shitty

Noodleface · Apr 28, 2020

Vanguard now blocks cpu-z/gpu-z from running on your PC as well as any tuning software for gpus. At least in my case I could use afterburner but the game would crash, but the latest update is blocking program for execution

TecKnoe · Apr 29, 2020

so first is distortion why do some pros use it vs others not? i read up on it but didnt really understand why some one have it on vs off

second is improved clarity, from what i read it makes things further away appear better why would they turn this off?

third letterbox or fill? why do some have this on or off

fourth is Vignette

Lastly how would i calculate my edpi if im using 450 DPI and in game .62

gauze · Apr 30, 2020

Probably a bit of personal preference and placebo.

I'd assume vignette will help center/crosshair focus, and reduced distractions by obscuring the outsides slightly. I'm not sure how much it fades, but I can't imagine it being that horrible, nor is there any sort of slider.. I'll still find myself being like oo birdy, looking off to the corner of my screen or being distracted by a sova arrow flying through the air... only has it been a few times was it an omens head in the skybox. /shrug

Distortion is probably a decent read on the chaos that is going on. I think the hit indicators are currently pretty shit for the game, and aren't all telling.. Comparatively to say, CS, where a bright red radial direction appears.. but also I doubt the distortion is Call of Duty levels of bad where you're in a screen covered in blood.

Just guesses though, tried to run a game w/ em on and nothing change.. but I also have everything on low.. Most of these players also run with extremely high digital vibrance, so maybe it also helps that.. there was a vod of someone with shroud, and they were laughing at the digital vibrance in this game because everything is extra bright due to the more flat color palettes.. I wouldn't know how to find it, or if I dreamed it; but I remember it?

As far as blackbars vs stretch; which is what i'm assuming you're talking about.

The easiest answer is that some of the pro's have been playing for a long time, and it was pretty much foolish to run anything other than 640x480 in CS1.6.. so it just stuck to running it when everything was swapping to TN wide; so some ran black bars over stretched. Moving from CRT and 4:3 wasn't natural had you been playing competitively extensively.. Then follows monkey see monkey do, [insert pro] does it, now so do I. Arguments and debates over things like better frames, which is reasonable.. to less mouse movement/visual area.. bigger models; blah blah. Tons of arguments on why or why not. If it makes you feel better, then do it; if you're disgusted by it, don't do it.

Araxen · Apr 30, 2020

gauze · Apr 30, 2020

Although beta, weeee

VALORANT - Riot Games

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