War with Syria

Iannis_sl said:

Could it be any more obvious Obama wants out and that he wants Congress to take the PR hit?

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I read it more that people in congress were going to attack him politically no matter what he did, so the administration wants to make everyone a shareholder in whatever action they take, or don't take.

Also, it was one of primary reasons he was elected. Obama is lucky. Britain saved him from a huge self inflicted wound. He would have been crucified from both ends for going it alone.

If congress rejects this, and he does it anyway, he is committing political suicide.

Patrick Leahy already said the request was too broad and open ended and that the Senate will be rewriting it before voting on it.

Well I'm not even saying that it's wrong of him to demand Congress share the responsibility of the decision. I'd say that's exactly right.

But he's basically sent them a proposition of, "Either Crown me or lets talk about something else". He doesn't have the redneck gravitas that Bush did when Bush demanded (and received) the scepter. That's why it seems to me that Obama wants out from under -- and all this talk from Kerry and anonymous sources about "It's gonna haaaapppeeennn!!" is just bizarre blustering pandering.

Who are they pandering to? I can't figure that out. Themselves?

Jews

chthonic-anemos_sl said:

Jews

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fanaskin_sl said:

CYPRUS, A RUSSIAN FOOTHOLD IN THE CHANGING EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN
BY IGOR DELANOE AUGUST 4, 2013

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Hmm I only skimmed the article but it didn't seem to mention the two rather large British / NATO bases on the island of Cyprus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrotiri_and_Dhekelia

"The United Kingdom has shown no intention of ceding the base areas in their entirety to Cypriot control.... As of 2010, around 3,000 troops of British Forces Cyprus are based at Akrotiri and Dhekelia. Ayios Nikolaos Station, in the ESBA, is a GCHQ electronic intelligence listening station of the UKUSA intelligence network"

Technically they aren't even part of the nation of Cyprus, as when they got independence the base areas were excluded. It's a bit like the Guantanamo Bay base in Cuba.

---Removed by myself, too deep---

I think congress will take this opportunity to kick Obama in the nuts by voting No on military action against Syria. Not because they disagree with Obama on Syria but because many are fed up with Obama's rule by executive order and the constant bypassing of congress. Look for congress to approve allot of options president didn't ask for like sanction, covert operations, arming some of rebels. a naval blockade, and a no fly zone, while at same time not approving air or missiles strikes and also forbidding ground troops outside of spec opt troops.

Then world will flail about for a few months trying to figure out what to do. Eventually arriving back at the point of finally agreeing to take military action.

China and Russia are the biggest question marks here. If they continue to block action on Syria at UN then the situation could well devolve into a new cold war. Obama taking fast military action with Russia and China opposing it but doing nothing was in many ways the best option for Russia and China. There would have been no real damage to there relations with US and Europe. Without quick military action there will be much more pressure on them to do something and the costs of pretending Syria didn't use Chemical weapons will be much higher.

Tuco_sl said:

Yeah, voting against ones own desires because you're upset that the potus is taking away your power to vote would be very ironic.

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There is no need to rush here they can have both there desired results first by making Obama look bad and then in a few months by doing something about Syria. Just Maybe they will also find away to avoid needing to take military action altogether.

Araysar_sl said:

It's kinda amusing because the only reason Congress gets bypassed is because its the most obstructionist Congress in over a century.

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Obama needs to be obstructed allot more often.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/mid...-refugees-live


Israel firing missiles into the sea this morning, to try and instigate something.

Araysar_sl said:

So basically he is using Syria as a ploy to avoid having to request war authorization on Iran later.

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Yeah, I'm sure that will actually happen. Obama asks Congress's approval to make a limited strike on Syria after it gases a few thousand of it's own people, so that he can launch a massive attack against Iran, which will kick off a larger regional war and would be likely to see a shitload more WMD cooked off across the Middle East. Genius!

Obama's Syrian mission creep?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23947881

"In a heated phone call between Secretary of State John Kerry and Democratic members of Congress, one of them warned that the administration had "collective amnesia" about the lessons of Vietnam...

This is not the same. Lessons have been learnt. Every American politician from Mr Obama down is very clear that there will be "no boots on the ground" in Syria. But it already seems Mr Obama is changing his strategy, deepening his commitment, because of his decision to call a vote in Congress... it would be ironic if Mr Obama's decision to get congressional backing forced him further down the road to war than he thought was wise last week. "

Araysar_sl said:

If someone told you last year that Obama would be doing his damndest to help Al-Qaeda jihadists overthrow a secular middle east government, what would you say to that?

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"It sounds like he's thinking of bombing Syria."

It sucks. Really the only way to have avoided this situation would have been to have immediately helped overthrow Assad while much of the resistance movement was still secular, or at least not completely radicalized by foreign muslim extremists like it is now. But the case for intervention then was much, much harder to make. So the world sat on it's hands for 2 years, and lo and behold, what everyone with half a clue predicted has now happened: the rebels have largely been swamped by foreign jihadists, and there's been so much sectarian killing it's unlikely Syria will ever be a contiguous country with a single government again, because everyone hates everyone else. Iraq 2.0, but this time without a foreign intervention to kick things off initially, and with far more animosity between the warring factions.