Weight Loss Thread

Ossoi_sl said:

Maybe for scale-watchers trying to lose weight but for anyone who trying to lose body fat and preserve/increase muscle then why cut back on protein. The "12 Week Body Plan" (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mens-Fitness.../dp/1781060576) by Nick Mitchell ofhttp://upfitness.co.uk/advocates low carb and 4g of protein per kg at the start of the diet and that was responsible for results like thesehttp://www.carlgottlieb.com/12-week-...ansformations/

And for the record I eat 300g of protein a day and constantly registered ketones on ketostix when I was low carbing.

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Because protein gives no benefit whatsoever beyond .8 grams per pound of lean body weight at most and that study was based on professional athletes. Over the short term excess consumption won't do any damage, unless you already have a liver or kidney issue. If that plans works, I'd say it has to do with the rest of plan, not the excess protein. Uh-huh, you know what that means? It means you weren't in ketosis. When people are in ketosis their body uses the ketones, it doesn't piss them away. The first time you go into ketosis you should show increasing readings on ketostix that then sharply drop off to nothing once your body transitions over to actually using them. If you want accurate readings you need to do blood samples, which are more expensive ($2 a strip at the cheapest). So if you were a couple of weeks in and still showing high readings on ketostix, that means you weren't ever in ketosis.

Ossoi_sl said:

I really can't be bothered with this stupid argument. I've been low carb for so long that when I eat enough carbs to get knocked out of it (eg this past weekend which was birthday celebrations) that I go back into ketosis extremely quickly with no flu like symptoms because I'm super adapted.

"So if you were a couple of weeks in and still showing high readings on ketostix, that means you weren't ever in ketosis." <- HOLY SHIT, if you're pissing out ketones and you're not in ketosis then why the hell are they being produced, just stop with the cretinity

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Because it is what your liver does with fats. In fact a person on a perfectly normal diet will still have ketones in their blood and urine, just in smaller amounts. But a person in ketosis will havelowerurine readings than a normal person, but higher blood readings. Aren't facts fun?

Experiment: Optimal Ketosis for Weight Loss and Improved Performance | DietDoctor.com

Like that guy. He tracked both. See how as he gets into optimal ketosis his blood ketones go up but his urine ketones take a sharp dip? Takes some time, but it happens.

Don't trust Ossoi, he used to tell us he was ingesting 1200g protein a day

Because a lot of people are unhealthy and sticking to a plan, any plan, is better than what they were doing. This isn't exactly news. Also ignoring science doesn't make it invalid, but here!

5 Most Common Low-Carb Mistakes (And How to Avoid Them)

Point 2. By people who made their reputation studying low-carb diets. I figure that'll invalidate the appeal to authority argument nicely, since, well, mine is an actual medical doctor and yours is a personal trainer looking to make a buck. Would you care to throw out any other classic fallacies?

The Master_sl said:

@Denaut: The dangers of eating too much protein, as I noted, are mostly overblown because most people do eat to much. Many very healthy people buy into the myth of one gram per pound of lean body weight and are fine, even though the extra protein is pointless. But we're talking about up to double that level of excess protein and, yes, it can cause health issues. In the short term it will generally only happen if you already have a liver or kidney issue, but the long term even if you started out fine, there is a real risk.

No. See earlier post. If you eat excess protein but do not eat enough fat to go into ketosis your body will turn the protein into sugar, a carbohydrate, via gluconeogenesis. If your body is consuming sugar in the frankly enormous quantities that breaking down protein gives you, you are not on a low carb diet, even if you eat zero actual carbs. A ketogenic diet requires roughly twice as many grams of fat as protein or you'll never enter ketosis, your body will live off the sugar gotten from breaking down the protein rather than using ketones. This is basic biology here. Well, basic college biology.

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You are confused, mixing ketogenic with low-carb diets. All ketogenic diets are low-carb diets but not all low-carb diets are ketogenic diets, I'd draw you a Venn diagram if I wasn't feeling lazy. The benefits of a low-carb diet go beyond just being in ketosis and include things like increased satiety, fewer food options (you eat less when you have fewer options), and other benefits. If you subscribe to the fructose is the major obesity contributor hypothesis it also eliminates that from the diet.

As to the protein itself, the excess protein does not "go to waste" as it is burned for energy like you yourself have said multiple times. That is using, not wasting. Secondly, show me a published medical article where a group of otherwise perfectly healthy people ate so much protein as to cause liver and kidney damage. I looked myself and couldn't find a single one. There is no amount of protein an otherwise healthy person can eat that would damage their organs. They'd probably injure themselves from simply eating too much food as a whole before the protein itself became a problem.

So yes, eating primarily protein is a completely viable and effective (if expensive) weight loss strategy with little to no risk in an otherwise healthy individual compared to any other strategy.

High-Protein Diets Can Hurt Kidneys

You didn't look very hard. Also, again, your body turns the protein into sugar. That is a carbohydrate. If you're not doing ketosis, your body is still running on carbs. That is not a low-carb diet. Just because you put protein in your mouth doesn't mean your body isn't burning carbs. You are slowing the introduction of sugar by making your body break it down first, but that isn't any different from eating complex carbs like sweet potatoes, which also take time to be broken down. Or eating sugar together with fiber. Again, all it does is slow uptake. Which isn't a bad thing, fast sugar uptake is one of the primary reasons you get insulin response issues, but it isn't low-carb unless you're going solely by the definition of what kind of material your food is when you chew it and ignore what it actually does in your body. Also having fewer options is a psychological thing, not a dietary one. That is a self-control issue.

Excess protein does go to waste. It provides no net benefit. If I get something that gives me no benefit and then I literally turn it into shit, how is that not waste?

Ossoi_sl said:

If you bother to read the links I posted, the site that hosts the results of the 12wbp was actually put together by someone who purchased the book rather than the author himself (who incidentally has stated he gets 7.5p for each copy sold).

And if you want more results then try hereResults -I would hazard a guess its results like these that have meant UP can open gyms in the UK, Hong Kong and Marbella as opposed to being in it for a "quick buck"

And as I said earlier, you are confusing "ketosis low carb" for WEIGHT LOSS vs "low carb" for FAT LOSS and MUSCLE PRESERVATION. Someone focused on weight loss might try and stay in ketosis until they reach their target scale weight. Someone focused on reducing body fat and preserving/increasing muscle mass might start off in low carb before introducing carb cycling or timed carb meals in order to fuel muscle growth and replenish glycogen stores - meaning they're constantly shifting in and out of ketosis.

Now fuck off back to weightwatchers cretin.

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Books give people notoriety, it isn't about how much you make per book sale. Yes, notoriety means you can open up branches of your business in new places. Does that make him a good business man? Sure. Does it make him a medical doctor with a minimum of ten years of training in human biology? Not so much.

The Master_sl said:

High-Protein Diets Can Hurt Kidneys

You didn't look very hard. Also, again, your body turns the protein into sugar. That is a carbohydrate. If you're not doing ketosis, your body is still running on carbs. That is not a low-carb diet. Just because you put protein in your mouth doesn't mean your body isn't burning carbs. You are slowing the introduction of sugar by making your body break it down first, but that isn't any different from eating complex carbs like sweet potatoes, which also take time to be broken down. Or eating sugar together with fiber. Again, all it does is slow uptake. Which isn't a bad thing, fast sugar uptake is one of the primary reasons you get insulin response issues, but it isn't low-carb unless you're going solely by the definition of what kind of material your food is when you chew it and ignore what it actually does in your body. Also having fewer options is a psychological thing, not a dietary one. That is a self-control issue.

Excess protein does go to waste. It provides no net benefit. If I get something that gives me no benefit and then I literally turn it into shit, how is that not waste?

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Did you read your own link or just the headline? The very first two sentences are:

High-protein diets like that of the popular Atkins diet may accelerate the loss of kidney function in people withearly problems. However, these controversial dietsdo not seem to affect people with normal kidneys, suggests new research.

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Seriously...

Beyond that you are playing meaningless semantical games, a low-carb diet is not defined by your body's biochemistry, it is defined by what you put in your mouth. Unless you for some reason just invented a new definition that only you use because you are wrong and don't want to admit it? I will say it one more time, the benefits of a low-carb diet go beyond just being in ketosis, although for mega ultra fast rapid fat loss ketosis is probably the besttypeof low-carb diet.

Again, the extra protein doesn't "go to waste" and very much provides a benefit... which is 4 Calories of energy per gram. What part of your own statements are you not understanding? Now saying it is a ratherexpensiveand financially inefficient way to get get those Calories makes some sense, but it certainly isn't wasted.

Ossoi_sl said:

post pics or stop posting.

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