Weight Loss Thread
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Guest, did you like the last podcast notification?? Well here's the second one, and for the third podcast! Yep. This Thursday 8-8-24 at 7pm Central
Go here to check out his podcast thread for info on topics and links!Go into the FoH discord and find the Happy Time Fun Hour channel and give it a listen!
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Protein is more satisfying that fat and keeps you full for longer (Effects of a high-protein ketogenic diet on h... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI) , so go ahead and listen to the poster boy for aspergers if you want but there is no way I could get through the day on 1g of protein per lb, that would be 168g for me or roughly 500g chicken breast.
In fact, how about you stop listening to random voices on the internet and pay attention to people who've actually posted results? Just stop paying attention to his lame ass science-heisenberg bullshit cause it's fucking retarded, eating at a calorific deficit is the reason you're losing weight. If you think the fact protein is broken down to glucose is going to mean you lose less weight than if you were eating more fats with the same deficit than that's simply not true.
Eating at a calorific deficit is catabolic, hence why you should keep protein as high as possible, there really is no reason to take risks with muscle mass.
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it's three chicken breasts, at least from the packs I buy, that would last me until lunchtime
As for shitshow? I've posted a link to a real world training program which recommends up to 4g/kg of protein and a low carb diet approach, I then posted independently collected results from that said training program but somehow that's not good enough because you know PERSONAL TRAINERS ARE SATAN PERSONIFIED!
Let's not forget my own results, 80kg and 23% body fat to 74% and 9.9% with a 6kg increase in lean muscle mass - all with 1kg of meat a day and green leafy veg
All we've had from ass-master is "YEAH SCIENCE BITCH" with no actual figures of how much protein starts getting broken down into glucose. he's completely ignored the extra satiety from protein
As for shitshow? I've posted a link to a real world training program which recommends up to 4g/kg of protein and a low carb diet approach, I then posted independently collected results from that said training program but somehow that's not good enough because you know PERSONAL TRAINERS ARE SATAN PERSONIFIED!
Let's not forget my own results, 80kg and 23% body fat to 74% and 9.9% with a 6kg increase in lean muscle mass - all with 1kg of meat a day and green leafy veg
All we've had from ass-master is "YEAH SCIENCE BITCH" with no actual figures of how much protein starts getting broken down into glucose. he's completely ignored the extra satiety from protein
chaos
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I get it. We all get it. You made your point. Move on. A lot of people like this thread, Tuco has already warned both of you guys about the personal shit and I'll not have this thread turning into some rickshaw bullshit.
Let your stats speak for themselves. Personally, I am pretty suspicious about The Master's claims and haven't found a reputable source to back them up. The stuff he linked was wanting. But yeah, a pound of chicken is a lot. I cook that in a meal and feed it to my family of 5, and have leftovers.
Let your stats speak for themselves. Personally, I am pretty suspicious about The Master's claims and haven't found a reputable source to back them up. The stuff he linked was wanting. But yeah, a pound of chicken is a lot. I cook that in a meal and feed it to my family of 5, and have leftovers.
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Final thoughts - I've just realised his whole "you should be eating higher fat and less protein" spiel isn't applicable to me....what was that stuff I was melting down and drinking and getting made fun of. OH YEAH COCONUT OIL AKA 100% FAT, then there's the tablespoons of high quality fish oil I take and the handful of nuts at breakfast.
Yeah my fat intake and protein intake is absolutely fine...end of discussion
Yeah my fat intake and protein intake is absolutely fine...end of discussion
chaos
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Bro, you're awful sensitive to some ribbing over LAWL COCONUT OIL for someone who has the impressive results that you have. I'm sure your intake is fine, as I said, I haven't seen anything to back up this claim made earlier about too much protein something something YOU DIE. I'm just saying, that is a lot of chicken breast.
The Myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal Protein Intake for Bodybuilders
No benefit to protein exceeding .82 grams per round of lean body mass, with the exception of steroid users. Handily he footnotes the major studies that have been done on it, if you can find them online you are welcome to look into them more in depth. Eating more protein does nothing for you. I never claimed over eating protein would kill you, if you had a severe enough kidney issue where that would be a real risk you'd probably already know you had a kidney issue that severe, but there has been observed decrease in function in people who were otherwise perfectly normal before. If something gives you no benefit and has potential issues, not to mention it more expensive... why do it?
@Ossoi: Um, all that study says is that ketogenic diets reduce hunger more than nonketo diets do. The protein used in both the diets in the study was 38.8 grams per meal, they were only varying the fat vs carbs. So you're looking at 120 grams per day in the study. Which, considering the subjects were obese, is nigh identical to the amount of I've been saying you should eat! Isn't that odd. And, note, that is considered ahighamount of protein according to the study, while still being 48 grams less than what you would eat at 1 gram per pound of lean body weight (which is still higher than does you any good).
Sometimes it helps to actually read studies beyond the summary and assume you know what it says. Understanding is in the details.
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Protein Intake While Dieting - Q&A | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonaldPretty sure Lyle Mcdonald knows what he is talking about:
It's worth noting that more recent research supports further benefits of increased protein intakes while dieting, beyond simple lean body mass maintenance.Protein is the most filling nutrient (meaning that higher protein intakes tend to control hunger better) and studies have found that higher protein intakes can help to stabilize blood sugar levels while dieting which has benefits from both an energy level and appetite standpoint.Protein high in the amino acid leucine (with the dairy proteins whey and casein being the two proteins highest in leucine) seem to have extra benefit in this regard.
Now, as individuals get leaner, protein requirement tend to go up further for reasons discussed in other articles on this site. As well, regular training tends to further increase protein requirements. So lean athletes trying to lose fat while sparing lean body mass loss need even higher protein intakes than this. And we've known for decades now that caloric intake per se tends to impact on protein requirements; as caloric intake goes down, protein requirements go up. And vice versa.
While less data on this group is available, bodybuilders and athletes have long used a protein intake of 2.2 g/kg (1 g/lb) lean body mass as a generalized intake level and as folks get very lean, intakes of 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of lean body mass may be required to stave off muscle loss while dieting. In some very extreme cases, such as the near protein only diet approach of my own Rapid Fat Loss Handbook even higher protein intakes may be required for very lean individuals.
So basically we have an intake continuum ranging from about 1.5 g/kg (0.68 g/lb) as a minimum for the obese non-training individual up to ahigh of around 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of protein per pound of lean body mass for very lean heavily training athletes or bodybuilderswith middle ground values being found in between those two extremes. You'll note that I didn't put any of those values in terms of percentages for reasons
So basically Lyle has just vindicated everything I've been saying - which is that "weightwatcher" type dieters (eg fatties that only care about scale weight) can get away with lower protein on a keto diet....but that athletes/bodybuilders or anyone more concerned with reducing body fat and preserving/increasing muscle should eat more, up to 3.3g/kg which funnily enough also happens to be the exact same amount recommended by some of the 12 week body plan success stories that I posted earlier on this thread12 Week Body Plan Diet Question(s) Ultimate Performance Forums
Now ass-master, you can keep your bullshit going if you want - I'm sure you are capable of finding an excuse to trivialise the work of Lyle Mcdonald "HE JUST WANTS TO SELL MOAR BOOKS AND INCREASE HIS INTERNET NOTORIETY LOLSZ" or you can shut the fuck up and accept that REAL WORLD RESULTS/APPLICATIONS have their place.
Your other choice is to let your pedantic ass-burger bullshit find some little grammatical flaw or minor trivial point to keep this going all day
It's worth noting that more recent research supports further benefits of increased protein intakes while dieting, beyond simple lean body mass maintenance.Protein is the most filling nutrient (meaning that higher protein intakes tend to control hunger better) and studies have found that higher protein intakes can help to stabilize blood sugar levels while dieting which has benefits from both an energy level and appetite standpoint.Protein high in the amino acid leucine (with the dairy proteins whey and casein being the two proteins highest in leucine) seem to have extra benefit in this regard.
Now, as individuals get leaner, protein requirement tend to go up further for reasons discussed in other articles on this site. As well, regular training tends to further increase protein requirements. So lean athletes trying to lose fat while sparing lean body mass loss need even higher protein intakes than this. And we've known for decades now that caloric intake per se tends to impact on protein requirements; as caloric intake goes down, protein requirements go up. And vice versa.
While less data on this group is available, bodybuilders and athletes have long used a protein intake of 2.2 g/kg (1 g/lb) lean body mass as a generalized intake level and as folks get very lean, intakes of 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of lean body mass may be required to stave off muscle loss while dieting. In some very extreme cases, such as the near protein only diet approach of my own Rapid Fat Loss Handbook even higher protein intakes may be required for very lean individuals.
So basically we have an intake continuum ranging from about 1.5 g/kg (0.68 g/lb) as a minimum for the obese non-training individual up to ahigh of around 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of protein per pound of lean body mass for very lean heavily training athletes or bodybuilderswith middle ground values being found in between those two extremes. You'll note that I didn't put any of those values in terms of percentages for reasons
So basically Lyle has just vindicated everything I've been saying - which is that "weightwatcher" type dieters (eg fatties that only care about scale weight) can get away with lower protein on a keto diet....but that athletes/bodybuilders or anyone more concerned with reducing body fat and preserving/increasing muscle should eat more, up to 3.3g/kg which funnily enough also happens to be the exact same amount recommended by some of the 12 week body plan success stories that I posted earlier on this thread12 Week Body Plan Diet Question(s) Ultimate Performance Forums
Now ass-master, you can keep your bullshit going if you want - I'm sure you are capable of finding an excuse to trivialise the work of Lyle Mcdonald "HE JUST WANTS TO SELL MOAR BOOKS AND INCREASE HIS INTERNET NOTORIETY LOLSZ" or you can shut the fuck up and accept that REAL WORLD RESULTS/APPLICATIONS have their place.
Your other choice is to let your pedantic ass-burger bullshit find some little grammatical flaw or minor trivial point to keep this going all day
....So does posting links that say I'm right amuse you or is it really entirely accidental? He used literally the same number I did. Note he is saying 1.5g/kg, as opposed to my .68g/lb, but do the math, those are the same number. I find it particularly amusing that 1.5g/kg is basically 120 grams of protein per day for someone who is at 168 lbs of lean body mass.
Check my link. No study, even for professional athletes, has found anything over .82g/lb to do you any good with the sole exception of people who were using steroids. Now curiously some of the studies Lyle is referring to were on professional athletes. Guess what they were doing? If you said using steroids, you'd be correct, and (of course) they were caught out during the study because of the odd results. So... I mean, I guess if you're using steroids, you can go nuts with your protein intake and it'll actually have some benefit. Otherwise, not so much. I find it really odd you think real scientific case studies are not somehow "real world" data.
Check my link. No study, even for professional athletes, has found anything over .82g/lb to do you any good with the sole exception of people who were using steroids. Now curiously some of the studies Lyle is referring to were on professional athletes. Guess what they were doing? If you said using steroids, you'd be correct, and (of course) they were caught out during the study because of the odd results. So... I mean, I guess if you're using steroids, you can go nuts with your protein intake and it'll actually have some benefit. Otherwise, not so much. I find it really odd you think real scientific case studies are not somehow "real world" data.
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Point proven, for a man of science you sure do post some unfounded bullshit, now fuck off to my ignore list
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12 Week Body Plan Transformations | CarlGottlieb.com
I guess these guys were all on steroids as well as 3g protein per kg too, RIGHT?
I guess these guys were all on steroids as well as 3g protein per kg too, RIGHT?
Correlation is not causation. The changing their diets, rigorous exercise regimen, etc., had more to do with their change. Eating protein over .82g/lb (at most) does nothing for muscle gain or maintaining muscle mass, unless you're on steroids. The fact that they made the transition while eating excess amounts of protein doesn't mean eating excess amounts of protein caused the transition. Not a hard concept.
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No, in the understanding of human biology in the medical and scientific community. Facts are not opinions.
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Please explain why upto 4g of protein per kg is recommended in this book thenAmazon.co.uk: 12 week body planFunnily enough I couldn't see any steroids in the list of recommended supplements