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Weight Loss Thread
- Thread starter Sean_sl
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Itlan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I've done IF and keto. Both were a pain. I never felt more energy, I felt foggy and constipated lmao.
If it works for you that's fine, but it definitely didn't work for me. I'll eat my carbs.
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Eat, Fast Live Longer BBC Documentary HD - YouTubeBBC documentary about the positive effects of fasting.
When I started the 16/8 fasting it was mostly overcoming the mental side of 'you should be eating now, isn't this when people eat?'. Once that passed, I didn't really get hungry. It has been another good experience for recognizing hungry vs. not full. The furthest I have gone in the past month has been a 23 hour fast. I only did that once and it was because I overate the previous day so it pretty much balanced out.
I may have to check out that book. I am not sure I would want to regularly fast for two days, but it could be something to try out. Does eating those small quantities rather than nothing make it worse? I feel like my body would handle having no food better than having a small quantity a couple of times a day, but that is probably incorrect.
I may have to check out that book. I am not sure I would want to regularly fast for two days, but it could be something to try out. Does eating those small quantities rather than nothing make it worse? I feel like my body would handle having no food better than having a small quantity a couple of times a day, but that is probably incorrect.
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He only does the small calorie meal so the diet can be maintained indefinitely. It just makes it easier for people to do it knowing they have one restricted meal rather than nothing at all. He tried the 4 day a month fast and the one day on and one day off fast as well and he just didnt think that it was sustainable as a life style change. He dies mention in the book that he is now on a maintenance of 6:1 which is keeping the weight off and his blood numbers in check.
But the fascinating thing about all this is all the scientific studies on how fasting in general can prolong your life, keep your brain from fogging out early with dementia and other shit and how it sets the body into heal and fix mode while you are fasting. How our bodies evolved with feast and famine in mind and not gorging ourselves with food every 3-4 hours like in modern times. Another fun fact I got form that documentary above, during the 30s widespread dustbowl famine in the mid west, life expectancy actually increased by an average of 6 yrs, contrary to what you would believe about people actually starving.
I think the weight loss is just a side effect of basic calorie deficit. But the cool fact is that its 100% fat you are losing, not muscle and fat like on ordinary crash diets and such.
Edit: They key is that this guy was not trying to start a new diet fad. He was not fat or obese by any means when setting out to do this documentary, it was all about general health and longevity, although the numbers when he was tested showed that he was at 27% fat, had bad HDL/LDL, IGF-1(associated with certain caner risk) was at the top of normal for human, and was on the verge of type 2 diabetes. And all of this was fixed by the 5:2 method. After 12 weeks, his fat was 19%, HDL/LDL was normal, IGF-1 was halved and blood sugars became normal range.
But the fascinating thing about all this is all the scientific studies on how fasting in general can prolong your life, keep your brain from fogging out early with dementia and other shit and how it sets the body into heal and fix mode while you are fasting. How our bodies evolved with feast and famine in mind and not gorging ourselves with food every 3-4 hours like in modern times. Another fun fact I got form that documentary above, during the 30s widespread dustbowl famine in the mid west, life expectancy actually increased by an average of 6 yrs, contrary to what you would believe about people actually starving.
I think the weight loss is just a side effect of basic calorie deficit. But the cool fact is that its 100% fat you are losing, not muscle and fat like on ordinary crash diets and such.
Edit: They key is that this guy was not trying to start a new diet fad. He was not fat or obese by any means when setting out to do this documentary, it was all about general health and longevity, although the numbers when he was tested showed that he was at 27% fat, had bad HDL/LDL, IGF-1(associated with certain caner risk) was at the top of normal for human, and was on the verge of type 2 diabetes. And all of this was fixed by the 5:2 method. After 12 weeks, his fat was 19%, HDL/LDL was normal, IGF-1 was halved and blood sugars became normal range.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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So he lost weight and the risks associated with obesity (> 24% is considered obese) went away but instead of believing it had to do with the weight loss he thought it was because of fasting? Like that shit wouldn't have improved if he lost weight without fasting?
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Obese is 30+ overweight is 25-30. And no, weight loss would fix some shit, but not necessarily your blood sugar, insulin resistance and IGF-1.
In the documentary he fixed all that shit with a streight up 4 day fast, without losing much weight. But it went back to his normal without doing more 4 day fasts monthly. Watch it, just for the lulz.
In the documentary he fixed all that shit with a streight up 4 day fast, without losing much weight. But it went back to his normal without doing more 4 day fasts monthly. Watch it, just for the lulz.
Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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I was about 20lbs overweight with a BMI of 28 and was pre-diabetic. I lost 15lbs at the direction of my doctor and my A1c levels returned to normal and I was no longer pre-diabetic.
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Itlan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Xevy
Log Wizard
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3 days a week I go ~19 hours between meals. I go to the gym on an empty stomach for ~15ish hours and I prefer it that way. If I eat before I just end up burping a ton or sloggy feeling. But I basically sleep like 8-12 hours a day so my schedule is realllll fucked up. I blame college and my awesome class scheduling ability.
Someone tell me what the fuck makes up a "toxin" as it pertains to the body. And also feel free to explain why our kidneys/liver don't filter the "toxins".
Rezz
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Toxins are effectively hippy bullshit in that context. The concept is that your body is constantly in a state of barely handling all the "toxins" we intake each day(toxin being anything that wasn't grown by the local farmer/hippy commune). By fasting, you are not bringing more "toxins" in, hence your body then repairs damage instead of just fighting off "toxins."
Which is hippy bullshit science. The same science that says that not eating for multiple days is healthy ever. The human body is indeed designed to survive periods of feast and famine. Hippy writer was correct! But the key terminology there is the word "survive." It is -not- good for you, the body does -not- do things better, and the entire concept is borderline retarded. Your body does not suddenly get better at anything when it is deprived of fuel. Nothing in the world gets better when it doesn't have enough fuel. The only way someone becomes more aware/focused when they are starving, is because they are in the process of dying and actively trying to avoid it. Hence the heightened concentration, because you are dying. Starvation mode, as I referenced it, is that your body slows functions to avoid using up what is suddenly a limited resource: fast acting sugars. This happens almost immediately, and it is why for 100% of the world, not eating for more than a day starts to cause everyone to have less energy. Your body doesn't start producing energy from air to make up for the lack of eating it. And in order to survive, it does so by going into the very same "feast or famine" deal that mkopec referenced. He just did it incorrectly. Every doctor in the world will tell you that it is ok to fast 1-2 days, occasionally. But not eating for multiple days in a row consistently? Yeah, show me the doctor that will ever say that is a good idea who isn't a retard hippy. Also, religious people are lunatics, so their self-starvation antics are equally insane.
The whole line of reasoning is just as retarded as the "cleanse" concept.
No offense to any hippies who buy into that crap, but it's the same idea as fat people arguing that calories in > calories out doesn't lead to weight gain. It's is only true if you ignore real science.
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LOL, hippy science. Granted the research is fairly lacking, but it has been done in humans and in mammals and more studies are being done and there is undoubtedly positive results so far.
Fasting: Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications
Fasting has been practiced for millennia, but only recently studies have shed light on its role in adaptive cellular responses that reduce oxidative damage and inflammation, optimize energy metabolism and bolster cellular protection. In lower eukaryotes, chronic fasting extends longevity in part by reprogramming metabolic and stress resistance pathways. In rodents intermittent or periodic fasting protects against diabetes, cancers, heart disease and neurodegeneration, while in humans it helps reduce obesity, hypertension, asthma and rheumatoid arthritis. Thus, fasting has the potential to delay aging and help prevent and treat diseases while minimizing the side effects caused by chronic dietary interventions.
Among the major effects of fasting relevant to aging and diseases are changes in the levels of IGF-1, IGFBP1, glucose, and insulin. Fasting for 3 or more days causes a 30% or more decrease in circulating insulin and glucose, as well as rapid decline in the levels of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), the major growth factor in mammals, which together with insulin is associated with accelerated aging and cancer (Fontana et al., 2010). In humans, five days of fasting causes an over 60% decrease in IGF-1and a 5-fold or higher increase in one of the principal IGF-1-inhibiting proteins: IGFBP1 (Thissen et al., 1994a). This effect of fasting on IGF-1is mostly due to protein restriction, and particularly to the restriction of essential amino acids, but is also supported by calorie restriction since the decrease in insulin levels during fasting promotes reduction in IGF-1(Thissen et al., 1994a). Notably, in humans, chronic calorie restriction does not lead to a decrease in IGF-1unless combined with protein restriction (Fontana et al., 2008).
Fasting has the potential for applications in both cancer prevention and treatment. Although no human data are available on the effect of IF or PF in cancer prevention, their effect on reducing IGF-1, insulin and glucose levels, and increasing IGFBP1 and ketone body levels could generate a protective environment that reduces DNA damage and carcinogenesis, while at the same time creating hostile conditions for tumor and pre-cancerous cells (Figure 5). In fact, elevated circulating IGF-1 is associated with increased risk of developing certain cancers (Chan et al., 2000; Giovannucci et al., 2000) and individuals with severe IGF-1deficiency caused by growth hormone receptor deficiency, rarely develop cancer (Guevara-Aguirre et al., 2011; Shevah and Laron, 2007; Steuerman et al., 2011). Furthermore, the serum from these IGF-1deficient subjects protected human epithelial cells from oxidative stress-induced DNA damage. Furthermore, once their DNA became damaged, cells were more likely to undergo programmed cell death (Guevara-Aguirre et al., 2011). Thus, fasting may protect from cancer by reducing cellular and DNA damage but also by enhancing the death of pre-cancerous cells.
Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men | Journal of Applied Physiology
by subjecting healthy men to cycles of feast and famine we did change the metabolic status to the better, implying that the mismatch between our ancient genotype and the lifestyle of the westernized individual of today became smaller. To our knowledge this is the first study in humans in which an increased insulin action on whole body glucose uptake and adipose tissue lipolysis has been obtained by means of intermittent fasting. This result is in accordance with previously reported in rodents (2, 32). In these studies, fasting every second day increased the insulin sensitivity approximately sevenfold according to the homeostatic model assessment (2) and decreased the incidence of diabetes (32).
The effects of intermittent or continuous energy restriction on weight loss and metabolic disease risk markers: a randomized trial in young overwei... - PubMed - NCBI
IER is as effective as CER with regard to weight loss, insulin sensitivity and other health biomarkers, and may be offered as an alternative equivalent to CER for weight loss and reducing disease risk.
Glucose tolerance and skeletal muscle gene expression in response to alternate day fasting. - PubMed - NCBI
Alternate day fasting may adversely affect glucose tolerance in nonobese women but not in nonobese men. The gene expression results indicate that fatty acid oxidation and mitochondrial biogenesis are unaffected by alternate day fasting. However, the increased expression in SIRT1 suggests that alternate day fasting may improve stress resistance, a commonly observed feature of calorie-restricted rodents.
Alternate-day fasting in nonobese subjects: effects on body weight, body composition, and energy metabolism
In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss.
Intermittent versus daily calorie restriction: which diet regimen is more effective for weight loss? - PubMed - NCBI
Accordingly, this review examines the effects of daily CR versus intermittent CR on weight loss, fat mass loss and lean mass retention in overweight and obese adults. Results reveal similar weight loss and fat mass loss with 3 to 12 weeks' intermittent CR (4-8%, 11-16%, respectively) and daily CR (5-8%, 10-20%, respectively). In contrast, less fat free mass was lost in response to intermittent CR versus daily CR. These findings suggest that these diets are equally as effective in decreasing body weight and fat mass, although intermittent CR may be more effective for the retention of lean mass.
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease
When organisms ingest regular meals, their cells receive a relatively steady supply of nutrients and so remain in a "growth mode" in which protein synthesis is robust and autophagy is suppressed (68). The nutrient-responsive mTOR pathway negatively regulates autophagy. Accordingly, fasting inhibits the mTOR pathway and stimulates autophagy in cells of many tissues, including liver, kidney, and skeletal muscle (69-71). In this way, fasting "cleanses" cells of damaged molecules and organelles.
Fasting: Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications
Fasting has been practiced for millennia, but only recently studies have shed light on its role in adaptive cellular responses that reduce oxidative damage and inflammation, optimize energy metabolism and bolster cellular protection. In lower eukaryotes, chronic fasting extends longevity in part by reprogramming metabolic and stress resistance pathways. In rodents intermittent or periodic fasting protects against diabetes, cancers, heart disease and neurodegeneration, while in humans it helps reduce obesity, hypertension, asthma and rheumatoid arthritis. Thus, fasting has the potential to delay aging and help prevent and treat diseases while minimizing the side effects caused by chronic dietary interventions.
Among the major effects of fasting relevant to aging and diseases are changes in the levels of IGF-1, IGFBP1, glucose, and insulin. Fasting for 3 or more days causes a 30% or more decrease in circulating insulin and glucose, as well as rapid decline in the levels of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), the major growth factor in mammals, which together with insulin is associated with accelerated aging and cancer (Fontana et al., 2010). In humans, five days of fasting causes an over 60% decrease in IGF-1and a 5-fold or higher increase in one of the principal IGF-1-inhibiting proteins: IGFBP1 (Thissen et al., 1994a). This effect of fasting on IGF-1is mostly due to protein restriction, and particularly to the restriction of essential amino acids, but is also supported by calorie restriction since the decrease in insulin levels during fasting promotes reduction in IGF-1(Thissen et al., 1994a). Notably, in humans, chronic calorie restriction does not lead to a decrease in IGF-1unless combined with protein restriction (Fontana et al., 2008).
Fasting has the potential for applications in both cancer prevention and treatment. Although no human data are available on the effect of IF or PF in cancer prevention, their effect on reducing IGF-1, insulin and glucose levels, and increasing IGFBP1 and ketone body levels could generate a protective environment that reduces DNA damage and carcinogenesis, while at the same time creating hostile conditions for tumor and pre-cancerous cells (Figure 5). In fact, elevated circulating IGF-1 is associated with increased risk of developing certain cancers (Chan et al., 2000; Giovannucci et al., 2000) and individuals with severe IGF-1deficiency caused by growth hormone receptor deficiency, rarely develop cancer (Guevara-Aguirre et al., 2011; Shevah and Laron, 2007; Steuerman et al., 2011). Furthermore, the serum from these IGF-1deficient subjects protected human epithelial cells from oxidative stress-induced DNA damage. Furthermore, once their DNA became damaged, cells were more likely to undergo programmed cell death (Guevara-Aguirre et al., 2011). Thus, fasting may protect from cancer by reducing cellular and DNA damage but also by enhancing the death of pre-cancerous cells.
Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men | Journal of Applied Physiology
by subjecting healthy men to cycles of feast and famine we did change the metabolic status to the better, implying that the mismatch between our ancient genotype and the lifestyle of the westernized individual of today became smaller. To our knowledge this is the first study in humans in which an increased insulin action on whole body glucose uptake and adipose tissue lipolysis has been obtained by means of intermittent fasting. This result is in accordance with previously reported in rodents (2, 32). In these studies, fasting every second day increased the insulin sensitivity approximately sevenfold according to the homeostatic model assessment (2) and decreased the incidence of diabetes (32).
The effects of intermittent or continuous energy restriction on weight loss and metabolic disease risk markers: a randomized trial in young overwei... - PubMed - NCBI
IER is as effective as CER with regard to weight loss, insulin sensitivity and other health biomarkers, and may be offered as an alternative equivalent to CER for weight loss and reducing disease risk.
Glucose tolerance and skeletal muscle gene expression in response to alternate day fasting. - PubMed - NCBI
Alternate day fasting may adversely affect glucose tolerance in nonobese women but not in nonobese men. The gene expression results indicate that fatty acid oxidation and mitochondrial biogenesis are unaffected by alternate day fasting. However, the increased expression in SIRT1 suggests that alternate day fasting may improve stress resistance, a commonly observed feature of calorie-restricted rodents.
Alternate-day fasting in nonobese subjects: effects on body weight, body composition, and energy metabolism
In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss.
Intermittent versus daily calorie restriction: which diet regimen is more effective for weight loss? - PubMed - NCBI
Accordingly, this review examines the effects of daily CR versus intermittent CR on weight loss, fat mass loss and lean mass retention in overweight and obese adults. Results reveal similar weight loss and fat mass loss with 3 to 12 weeks' intermittent CR (4-8%, 11-16%, respectively) and daily CR (5-8%, 10-20%, respectively). In contrast, less fat free mass was lost in response to intermittent CR versus daily CR. These findings suggest that these diets are equally as effective in decreasing body weight and fat mass, although intermittent CR may be more effective for the retention of lean mass.
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease
When organisms ingest regular meals, their cells receive a relatively steady supply of nutrients and so remain in a "growth mode" in which protein synthesis is robust and autophagy is suppressed (68). The nutrient-responsive mTOR pathway negatively regulates autophagy. Accordingly, fasting inhibits the mTOR pathway and stimulates autophagy in cells of many tissues, including liver, kidney, and skeletal muscle (69-71). In this way, fasting "cleanses" cells of damaged molecules and organelles.
Water is potentially toxic as well. Are you going to stop consuming that so your body has less toxins to fight? The whole removing toxins from your body is just nonsense, as others have already pointed.
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I dont give a shit about toxins but if something I can do to prolong my life, reduce the chance of cancer, reduce the chance of cardiovascular death, reduce the chance of brain deterioration then maybe there is something there. Dont be fucking dense. I just linked you 7 published studies how fasting might be beneficial. This is not "hippy" science.
Am I going to go out and start fasting for 4 days? Probably not, just pointing out that most of the shit said by you guys about fasting is simply not true. Its something to think about, thats all.
Am I going to go out and start fasting for 4 days? Probably not, just pointing out that most of the shit said by you guys about fasting is simply not true. Its something to think about, thats all.