Weight Loss Thread

DickTrickle

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Far easier to eat 6000 less calories per week than it is to run 2 marathons/week.

Christ most fat people can sit down and eat 6000 calories in one or two sittings I bet.
Right, I get that, but then it's a completely variable percentage for each person. Saying it's 80/15/5 or 95/5/.01 is meaningless unless you're talking about maybe something like average breakdown for a population. That's why I was looking for the context of those numbers because it doesn't make sense for someone actively exercising while restricting calorie intake.
 

Cad

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Right, I get that, but then it's a completely variable percentage for each person. Saying it's 80/15/5 or 95/5/.01 is meaningless unless you're talking about maybe something like average breakdown for a population. That's why I was looking for the context of those numbers because it doesn't make sense for someone actively exercising while restricting calorie intake.
The point is to get through people's thick skulls that you can't come home from working out and eat donuts because "you're exercising." Exercising is a core but small component of weight loss. EATING TOO MUCH is what caused you to gain weight, you won't lose it until you stop doing that.
 

Tenks

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He's basically saying if you're trying to lose weight 95% of the battle is diet. Telling someone to work out for 2 hours a day is unreasonable but telling someone to eat a salad for dinner is not. Both net you 1000 fewer calories.
 

DickTrickle

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Yeah, that make more sense. The way I was reading it didn't because of the use of specific numbers (as some hard and fast thing). And I agree that diet control is ultimately more important than exercise; it's much easier to fuck up by eating snacks than by missing a workout. But if you can do both well, then you'll get to your goals even faster.
 

Fifey

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He's basically saying if you're trying to lose weight 95% of the battle is diet. Telling someone to work out for 2 hours a day is unreasonable but telling someone to eat a salad for dinner is not. Both net you 1000 fewer calories.
Except the fatty eats a salad covered in 700 calories of ranch/cheese/croutons.
 

DickTrickle

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I'm wondering if that 66% vs 6% number comes from belief in the EPOC. There was a metastudy about the research on that which it indicates it's nowhere near as powerful as some would have you believe:Effects of exercise intensity and duration on the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption. - PubMed - NCBI

Recovery from a bout of exercise is associated with an elevation in metabolism referred to as the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC). A number of investigators in the first half of the last century reported prolonged EPOC durations and that the EPOC was a major component of the thermic effect of activity. It was therefore thought that the EPOC was a major contributor to total daily energy expenditure and hence the maintenance of body mass. Investigations conducted over the last two or three decades have improved the experimental protocols used in the pioneering studies and therefore have more accurately characterized the EPOC. Evidence has accumulated to suggest an exponential relationship between exercise intensity and the magnitude of the EPOC for specific exercise durations. Furthermore, work at exercise intensities >or=50-60% VO2max stimulate a linear increase in EPOC as exercise duration increases. The existence of these relationships with resistance exercise at this stage remains unclear because of the limited number of studies and problems with quantification of work intensity for this type of exercise. Although the more recent studies do not support the extended EPOC durations reported by some of the pioneering investigators, it is now apparent that a prolonged EPOC (3-24 h) may result from an appropriate exercise stimulus (submaximal: >or=50 min at >or=70% VO2max; supramaximal: >or=6 min at >or=105% VO2max). However, even those studies incorporating exercise stimuli resulting in prolonged EPOC durations have identified that the EPOC comprises only 6-15% of the net total oxygen cost of the exercise. But this figure may need to be increased when studies utilizing intermittent work bouts are designed to allow the determination of rest interval EPOCs, which should logically contribute to the EPOC determined following the cessation of the last work bout. Notwithstanding the aforementioned, the earlier research optimism regarding an important role for the EPOC in weight loss is generally unfounded. This is further reinforced by acknowledging that the exercise stimuli required to promote a prolonged EPOC are unlikely to be tolerated by non-athletic individuals.The role of exercise in the maintenance of body mass is therefore predominantly mediated via the cumulative effect of the energy expenditure during the actual exercise.
Not to harp on it, but the 6% number just isn't real. Your fat to carb expenditure during exercise skews towards glycogen use at higher intensity, not fat use. Against, you will burn more calories per time spent at high intensity (including fat calories), but the ratio of fat to carb is more skewed towards carb.

rrr_img_115004.jpg
 

Tenks

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IMO you just need to find the right balance for yourself. If you do a bunch of whacko shit to lose some weight fast that is really hard to keep up for years that weight will most probably come back. But if you find a good mix of a diet that works for you and an exercise routine that works for you that can set you up for life long health and fitness. Like I don't particularly eat healthy but I only eat twice a day. I don't really snack at all. So my daily calories tend to come in bursts instead of throughout the day. I also exercise fairly intensely for 45m-1h three times a week to account for it. Thats why I'm not particularly fond of one-size-fits-all models for health and fitness. Sure you can min/max to try and lose weight but if the user despises the routine they may lose the weight then put it right back on when they're completely over doing the routine. Some people may actually be fine with working out 1h a day 5 days a week and if that is the case they can error on a bit less healthy food. Its just whatever works for you.
 

Fifey

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Tenks, that kind of level headed thinking had no place in the weight loss thread.

I eat like a five year old but do enough exercise that it cancels out.
 

Balroc

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More of a weight gain question. Any merit to the idea of "recharging" w/ milk after a workout or is there something better?
 

Dandai

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IMO you just need to find the right balance for yourself. If you do a bunch of whacko shit to lose some weight fast that is really hard to keep up for years that weight will most probably come back. But if you find a good mix of a diet that works for you and an exercise routine that works for you that can set you up for life long health and fitness. Like I don't particularly eat healthy but I only eat twice a day. I don't really snack at all. So my daily calories tend to come in bursts instead of throughout the day. I also exercise fairly intensely for 45m-1h three times a week to account for it. Thats why I'm not particularly fond of one-size-fits-all models for health and fitness. Sure you can min/max to try and lose weight but if the user despises the routine they may lose the weight then put it right back on when they're completely over doing the routine. Some people may actually be fine with working out 1h a day 5 days a week and if that is the case they can error on a bit less healthy food. Its just whatever works for you.
Not sure if you were specifically addressing me, but I agree that fitness (and health) isn't one size fits all. I enjoy weight lifting, and I enjoy my time at the gym. Otherwise there's no way 5 days of gym time per week would be sustainable. Sustainability is absolutely the most important part of any lifestyle change, or, as you say, you'll get that weight back (and probably even more because your body's metabolism has adjusted for the lower calorie intake of whatever crash diet you just did to lose your weight).

PS: I'm not ignoring you DickTrickle (how am I supposed to take you seriously with a name like that?). I'm just at work and can't listen to the specific part of the podcast where they discuss their findings and how they arrived at their 66% conclusion. I'll see if I can get to it tonight when I get home.
 

Ossoi

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What has your experience been with the low carb and carb cycling? Norton recommends a carb refeed one day every couple of weeks (for an overweight person such as myself) where you ONLY eat carbs and protein that day for your caloric needs (no fat because fat + insulin spike means the ingested fat gets taken right to storage).
I carb cycle for cutting. Fats+Protein+Veg on rest days and pre workout, carbs+protein+veg in post workout meal. I wouldn't worry about it for now. That would be something I would implement if you find your progress slowing down
 

Dandai

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I carb cycle for cutting. Fats+Protein+Veg on rest days and pre workout, carbs+protein+veg in post workout meal. I wouldn't worry about it for now. That would be something I would implement if you find your progress slowing down
Nice! Yeah I figured worrying about carb cycling was pretty much a fine tuning thing and not really appropriate for someone who is still 30+% body fat.
 

Dandai

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Instead of editing new pictures into my original post, it probably makes more sense to link before and after in a new post:

Before
rrr_img_114979.jpg

Week 1
rrr_img_115159.jpg

Not much noticeable difference in the pictures (despite the first being 258 lbs and the second being 246 lbs), but it's only been a week.

Edit: The wife says she's pretty sure the 10 lbs came from my thighs. Guess I should start including legs in my pictures. Is there a classy (ie I wouldn't blush to show my mother) way to do that?
 

ubiquitrips

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All the pictures I see online of thigh shots are just guys in boxer briefs pulling up one side of the boxer near their hip. The 'half speedo' as it were. I am glad you are taking weekly pictures this early in the process. That is something I wish I had done and regret not doing it.
 

ubiquitrips

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One of the tracker apps I have been following finally got their 1.0 release. I am not sure I am going to move over to it as I am so heavily invested in MyFitnessPal currently and Joy will go subscription ($2/mo) after the trial which is still more than the $0 for MFP. If only they would have gotten this app out during the MFP Premium outrage they may have been able to make a pretty big dent.

Joy - Lifestyle Tracker

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...joyapp.android
 

Eomer

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More of a weight gain question. Any merit to the idea of "recharging" w/ milk after a workout or is there something better?
Chocolate milk is supposed to be a really good recovery drink. As good or better than most sports drinks.
 

Khane

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I was 178 at the beginning of the summer. Stepped on the scale after back day today and I am 198. Too many burgers and Pimm's cups this year.
 

Dandai

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More of a weight gain question. Any merit to the idea of "recharging" w/ milk after a workout or is there something better?
Safe to assume you're asking about muscle gain, not just body fat right? Layne Norton talks about carbohydrates and protein synthesis inthis video. For milk, the more fat they take out, the more sugar they put in (because otherwise milk really doesn't taste like much). Milk is definitely better than nothing if you're trying to encourage protein synthesis (repair muscle, increase mass, etc), but you're probably going to want more protein than the 8g/cup that milk has. Personally, I always drink a 25g protein shake immediately after I'm done working out (I take it with me to the gym). Carbs + protein does increase protein synthesis by a very slight amount, but protein alone increases protein synthesis by way more than just carbs alone. Fat has no effect on protein synthesis.