Weight Loss Thread

Burnem Wizfyre · Mar 5, 2021

Ossoi said:
1) muscle takes more energy to maintain, building muscle requires even more, this effects your basal metabolic rate and metabolism which allows for more caloric in take.

Not disputing that. This whole discussion has never been about building muscle. Adding muscle whilst losing fat was a "side effect" of me resuming training after an 11 month break from training. I've stated this numerous times

2) Insulin prevents the body from burning fat.

Does it? Because when I asked you to explain my results you attributed it to "Your fucking metabolism you mouth breather."

I then asked you to qualify your two statements as follows: Insulin prevents the body from burning fat, (unless you have a similar metabolism to Ossoi)

3) what you did was not just weight loss

No shit, never claimed it was. Stated multiple times I care about body composition (fat loss and muscle preservation/gain)

4) Caloric restrictive diets lower your metabolism, time restrictive diets (intermittent fasting) increases your metabolism.

Then explain my results and repeated cuts to 10% body fat and below

__________________________________

This debate, has from my perspective, always been about the accuracy of these two claims:

1. You can’t burn fat when you constantly spike your insulin, when you only spike your insulin once you spend longer time in fat burning mode. You switch from burning food you eat to burning your fat stores. Your body increases its metabolism to give you more energy when you fast for prolonged periods, your stuck on a calorie in calorie out mentality when the body doesn’t work that way."

2. Sorry but constantly spiking your insulin levels all day is going to lead to insulin resistance, obesity and diabetes."

We can also add: 3. If your priority is losing fat you are doing it wrong, sorry.

After repeatedly asking you to qualify those first two statements against my results I'm still not sure of your position/response.

You seem to say, "it's possible for you because your increased muscle mass increases your metabolism"

Yet that would seem to contradict 4. Caloric restrictive diets lower your metabolism

So do I have an increased metabolism or a lowered one?

(edit and based on your current weight vs mine, the claims of "you could have done it better" are the literal equivalent of someone yelling "you suck" from the audience at Lebron

I linked you a study you can’t access your fat cells when your insulin levels are spiked, this is scientifically proven.

insulin resistance is due to constantly spiking your insulin, insulin is just like anything else which just means you need to produce more insulin for the same results.

Putting on muscle will naturally increase your metabolism, eating more as well will do the same. Your body adjust its metabolism based on its energy intake, along with other variables such as muscle mass. So when you lower your caloric intake your body reduces its basal metabolic rate, resting metabolism. You can have a high metabolism and get fat because you don’t ever give yourself time to burn fat, and you can have a low metabolism and still burn fat because you give yourself plenty of time to burn fat between meals.

You keep thinking I’m having a pissing contest about who did it better with you I’m not, you clearly have a better physique then me. That being said there are things that you don’t know about that could help you do what you do better, you aren’t the ultimate source of knowledge on this shit dude.

Araysar · Mar 5, 2021

Araysar said:
this is true

16/8 IF was super easy for me, i havent done the multi day ones yet

Just broke my 16 hour fast with two lettuce wrapped triples-triples from In-N-Out

Glorious.

Burnem Wizfyre · Mar 5, 2021

Insulin & It’s Impact on Fat Burning / Weight Loss | Health Expert Guide

Insulin is a hormone produced by the pancreas and maintains blood sugar levels by regulating whether your body uses or stores the energy from carbohydrates.

healthexpertguide.com

The effects of insulin on burning fat is well known, I can go on and on.

Ossoi · Mar 5, 2021

Burnem Wizfyre said:
You keep thinking I’m having a pissing contest about who did it better with you I’m not, you clearly have a better physique then me.

No, not at all. The issue is you don't remotely know what you're talking about. You dismiss CICO and exercise as weight loss tools and instead attribute it to the magical properties of "fasting.

I linked you a study you can’t access your fat cells when your insulin levels are spiked, this is scientifically proven.

a) It was already pointed out to you (not by me) that one study is not conclusive of anything. Regardless, I have no desire to play the "my study is better than yours" fallacy game.

b) Why is it so hard for you to understand:

If it is so hard for you to "access your fat cells when your insulin levels are spiked". Then how do you explain my constant results which only involve lowering carbs to 50-75g and below in the very later stages of the cut - because that's the only way I can get to 1500 calories and below?

Putting on muscle will naturally increase your metabolism, eating more as well will do the same. Your body adjust its metabolism based on its energy intake, along with other variables such as muscle mass. So when you lower your caloric intake your body reduces its basal metabolic rate, resting metabolism. You can have a high metabolism and get fat because you don’t ever give yourself time to burn fat, and you can have a low metabolism and still burn fat because you give yourself plenty of time to burn fat between meals.

Now we are back to square one, you still can't explain why I get results despite eating 200-400g carbs so you magic wand it as "fasting" even though I've told you that I don't fast, and that during that period I was eating 3 meals, having two peri-workout shakes and two post workout shakes

"That being said there are things that you don’t know about that could help you do what you do better, you aren’t the ultimate source of knowledge on this shit dude."

LiquidDeath already described me as "obsessed" with diet and training, and that's coming from a guy that until recently wore the "I'm the biggest retard in this thread" Crown.

Do you really think if fasting was so optimal that I wouldn't have already tried it, or read up about it?

Bitch, I've forgotten more about diet, nutrition and training AND put it into practice than you will ever know.

And, as already pointed out - would you lecture Lebron how to take free throws? Fuck off and find a 5kg dumbbell or something

Kirun · Mar 5, 2021

Burnem Wizfyre said:
It ramps up your metabolism and burns more energy, starting to think you are daft.

I'm not denying that fasting can give a potential increase to BMR. I'm curious as to what the mechanism is by which the body suddenly increases BMR by denying it food/energy. It's "burning" fat, sure, because it has no other way to get glucose once you start denying it energy(glucose) from food calories. Some doctor's word salad on how insulin works, doesn't really explain the mechanisms by which the body is somehow able to ignore kcals from food and then just magically start feeding from fat stores only. ESPECIALLY when your claim is that it spiked your BMR so heavily that you were able to eat 50% MORE calories and lose MORE weight than previous.

You're either full of complete shit, don't understand how the body uses/stores energy, ate less calories than you think, or increased your activity levels/muscle mass by a considerable margin to ramp up BMR. In fact, your BMR will often go DOWN when losing significant weight, because your body no longer needs shitloads of energy to keep 300+ lbs. of weight going anymore. Now it only needs enough energy to fuel 175 lbs..

Ossoi said:
My interest isn't in getting the number on the scale to go down, it's knowing how to lose fat whilst preserving/gaining muscle

It's literally impossible for the body to lose fat and GAIN muscle at the same time. The body can't exist in both anabolic and catabolic states at the same time. If you're gaining muscle, you're ALSO gaining fat. If you're LOSING fat, you're not gaining muscle.

Now, it's possible to be gaining MORE muscle than you are fat, thus your body fat % lowers, but the human body literally CANNOT burn fat AND gain muscle at the same time.

Burnem Wizfyre said:
10% is how much your fasting increases your metabolism, now tell me how much fat can you burn when you constantly spike your insulin all day doctor.

You can still lose fat by spiking insulin. I can go on a calorie restrictive diet, spike my insulin throughout the day, and still lose fat/weight. I did exactly this and was 387 lbs. at one point. Pic to prove it..

19023712_1307134849335698_1835545196085091251_o_1307134849335698.jpg

Aychamo BanBan · Mar 5, 2021

Ossoi said:
No, not at all. The issue is you don't remotely know what you're talking about. You dismiss CICO and exercise as weight loss tools and instead attribute it to the magical properties of "fasting.

a) It was already pointed out to you (not by me) that one study is not conclusive of anything. Regardless, I have no desire to play the "my study is better than yours" fallacy game.

b) Why is it so hard for you to understand:

If it is so hard for you to "access your fat cells when your insulin levels are spiked". Then how do you explain my constant results which only involve lowering carbs to 50-75g and below in the very later stages of the cut - because that's the only way I can get to 1500 calories and below?

Now we are back to square one, you still can't explain why I get results despite eating 200-400g carbs so you magic wand it as "fasting" even though I've told you that I don't fast, and that during that period I was eating 3 meals, having two peri-workout shakes and two post workout shakes

View attachment 339880

"That being said there are things that you don’t know about that could help you do what you do better, you aren’t the ultimate source of knowledge on this shit dude."

LiquidDeath already described me as "obsessed" with diet and training, and that's coming from a guy that until recently wore the "I'm the biggest retard in this thread" Crown.

Do you really think if fasting was so optimal that I wouldn't have already tried it, or read up about it?

Bitch, I've forgotten more about diet, nutrition and training AND put it into practice than you will ever know.

And, as already pointed out - would you lecture Lebron how to take free throws? Fuck off and find a 5kg dumbbell or something

Bravo, sir!!!

Ossoi · Mar 5, 2021

Kirun said:
It's literally impossible for the body to lose fat and GAIN muscle at the same time. The body can't exist in both anabolic and catabolic states at the same time. If you're gaining muscle, you're ALSO gaining fat. If you're LOSING fat, you're not gaining muscle.

Plenty of ways to achieve it, as already mentioned - anyone that is a beginner can get "noob gains" where they build muscle and lose fat simultaneously. This fact is well observed.

The same effect can also be reached via steroids. Or by taking a big enough break from the gym to effectively be a beginner again, like the 11 month break I took from the gym.

I've already posted my results from start of December to end of December, along with corresponding diet logs:

Training twice a day for 5 consective days, 2 days off.

11 month training break.

2500 calories target.

Had at least one Dominoes which took me to 3500 calories and 400g carbs for that day

200-400g carbs a day

I look visibly leaner in the second pic despite being 2kg heavier.

4-december-19-s10-priv-animation-gif.339786

Aychamo BanBan · Mar 5, 2021

Kirun said:
You're either full of complete shit, don't understand how the body uses/stores energy, ate less calories than you think, or increased your activity levels/muscle mass by a considerable margin to ramp up BMR. In fact, your BMR will often go DOWN when losing significant weight, because your body no longer needs shitloads of energy to keep 300+ lbs. of weight going anymore. Now it only needs enough energy to fuel 175 lbs..

Well, Burnem is a truck driver that got his education from a MD (and they are all fucking retarded pieces of shit) on YouTube, so I can't say for sure if that qualifies him as an expert in human physiology. But I think that your presumption that he is "either full of complete shit, don't understand how the body uses/stores energy," is pretty accurate.

Ossoi · Mar 5, 2021

Kirun said:
You can still lose fat by spiking insulin. I can go on a calorie restrictive diet, spike my insulin throughout the day, and still lose fat/weight. I did exactly this and was 387 lbs. at one point. Pic to prove it..

View attachment 339882

Nah bro, don't you get it? It wasn't the calorie deficit, it wasn't the training, it wasn't the weight lifting.

You see, when you were asleep for 6-8 hours, on the shitter or playing world of wacraft, driving to work etc You were not eating, you were fasting. Your body can only lose weight when it's not eating, because fasting is magic.

Kirun · Mar 5, 2021

Ossoi said:
I look visibly leaner in the second pic despite being 2kg heavier.

Firstly, muscle weighs more than fat. So, you can appear leaner, yet still weigh more.

Secondly, just because you gained MORE muscle than you gained fat doesn't mean you didn't also gain fat. You just gained a larger portion of muscle than you did fat. This is exactly where bodyfat % comes from. If I gain a pound of weight and 90% of it is muscle, yet 10% of it is fat, it doesn't mean I didn't gain fat. I just gained a larger percentage of muscle in my weight gain, thus lowering my bodyfat %.

I think what is happening here is that people are conflating weight and fat. But there is no mechanism in the human body whereby it GAINS muscle mass while also LOSING fat. If you're gaining muscle, you're gaining fat also, period. Why do you think you look "shredded" after going on calorie restrictive diets when putting on a bunch of muscle/weight? Because your body is feeding off any glycogen stores it has FIRST, thus decreasing your bodyfat % even further. But, you are NOT gaining muscle during this period, you're only losing fat (unless your body doesn't have enough glycogen stores left to convert it to glucose, in which case it'll start feeding on muscle protein for amino acids/energy requirements).

This is also why you're able to eat like a fucking horse during intense training periods. Because your body is actually sending some of that excess energy to fat stores to help build up muscle fibers/proteins.

Ossoi · Mar 5, 2021

Kirun said:
Firstly, muscle weighs more than fat. So, you can appear leaner, yet still weigh more.

Lol, what you mean is muscle has a higher density than fat. 1lb of muscle weighs the same as 1lb of fat.

Kirun said:
Secondly, just because you gained MORE muscle than you gained fat doesn't mean you didn't also gain fat. You just gained a larger portion of muscle than you did fat.

Look at the photos especially my stomach, which is the main area where men hold their fat. You can clearly see improved definition and my belly button does not look as "deep". Hips are clearly leaner and the vascularity in my arms is more visible

This is exactly where bodyfat % comes from. If I gain a pound of weight and 90% of it is muscle, yet 10% of it is fat, it doesn't mean I didn't gain fat. I just gained a larger percentage of muscle in my weight gain, thus lowering my bodyfat %.

Really you're just arguing semantics here - arguing that you can't simultaneously lose fat and gain muscle at the EXACT same time. Whereas I'm saying over a specific period, it is possible to do both.

I don't give a fuck when the fat evaporated or when the muscle decided to grow, all I care about is what I look like at the end and how long it took me to achieve.

P.S

You missed out another factor despite actually mentioning glycogen in your post. It's possible that some of the weight gain was water weight/glycogen retention from eating 200g+ of carbs.

Captain Suave · Mar 5, 2021

Kirun said:
eat like a fucking horse

Fuuuck that vegan noise.

Locnar · Mar 5, 2021

Ossoi said:
How do you explain this then?

View attachment 339801

How the fuk do you expect us to answer this question when you are wearing clothes in the pics?

Kirun · Mar 5, 2021

Falxy-US said:
Well, Burnem is a truck driver that got his education from a MD (and they are all fucking retarded pieces of shit) on YouTube, so I can't say for sure if that qualifies him as an expert in human physiology. But I think that your presumption that he is "either full of complete shit, don't understand how the body uses/stores energy," is pretty accurate.

Burnem Wizfyre is a good American and I'm not trying to shit on the guy. I applaud his weight loss as it isn't an easy task and there's a TON of bad information out there in regards to diet/exercise. And as a former fatty and food addict, I know how difficult that shit can be. I just happen to think he's misinformed about the mechanisms behind fasting and how/why it works in regards to energy storage/consumption/weight loss.

But, I'm always open to learning more shit about diet, so if he has compelling evidence on how/why fasting significantly increases BMR, I'm all ears.

Kirun · Mar 5, 2021

Ossoi said:
Lol, what you mean is muscle has a higher density than fat. 1lb of muscle weighs the same as 1lb of fat.

Really you're just arguing semantics here - arguing that you can't simultaneously lose fat and gain muscle at the EXACT same time. Whereas I'm saying over a specific period, it is possible to do both.

I don't give a fuck when the fat evaporated or when the muscle decided to grow, all I care about is what I look like at the end and how long it took me to achieve.

P.S

You missed out another factor despite actually mentioning glycogen in your post. It's possible that some of the weight gain was water weight/glycogen retention from eating 200g+ of carbs.

Yeah, I meant density, you're correct. 1lb is 1lb, I didn't articulate that well.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm arguing. It IS possible to do both, you're correct. It just isn't physically possible for the human body to exist in a catabolic and anabolic state at the same EXACT time. You can indeed gain muscle+fat in an anabolic state, then LOSE fat in a catabolic state at another point in time, but you can't do both at the exact same time. If your body is currently gaining muscle, it isn't also burning fat at the exact same time.

Water weight has so many factors involved that it's just something I don't even pay attention to as long as my weight is staying within a 3-5lb. fluctuation range.

Burnem Wizfyre · Mar 5, 2021

Ossoi said:
No, not at all. The issue is you don't remotely know what you're talking about. You dismiss CICO and exercise as weight loss tools and instead attribute it to the magical properties of "fasting.

a) It was already pointed out to you (not by me) that one study is not conclusive of anything. Regardless, I have no desire to play the "my study is better than yours" fallacy game.

b) Why is it so hard for you to understand:

If it is so hard for you to "access your fat cells when your insulin levels are spiked". Then how do you explain my constant results which only involve lowering carbs to 50-75g and below in the very later stages of the cut - because that's the only way I can get to 1500 calories and below?

Now we are back to square one, you still can't explain why I get results despite eating 200-400g carbs so you magic wand it as "fasting" even though I've told you that I don't fast, and that during that period I was eating 3 meals, having two peri-workout shakes and two post workout shakes

View attachment 339880

"That being said there are things that you don’t know about that could help you do what you do better, you aren’t the ultimate source of knowledge on this shit dude."

LiquidDeath already described me as "obsessed" with diet and training, and that's coming from a guy that until recently wore the "I'm the biggest retard in this thread" Crown.

Do you really think if fasting was so optimal that I wouldn't have already tried it, or read up about it?

Bitch, I've forgotten more about diet, nutrition and training AND put it into practice than you will ever know.

And, as already pointed out - would you lecture Lebron how to take free throws? Fuck off and find a 5kg dumbbell or something

You are not the Lebron James of diet and nutrition, you aren’t a even on the bench, in the NCAA or high school you are dumb cunt narcissistic moron down at the YMCA.

Lipohypertrophy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That happens at injection points for type one diabetics because of the effects of insulin on the ability to burn fat. If you want pictures I’ll link the gross ass fat clumps that form around long term insulin injections at the same spot. You are literally arguing against something as well known as gravity is the reason shit falls to the ground. You are a glaring example of Dunning-Kruger.

Ossoi · Mar 5, 2021

Burnem Wizfyre said:
You are not the Lebron James of diet and nutrition, you aren’t a even on the bench, in the NCAA or high school you are dumb cunt narcissistic moron down at the YMCA.

And from a body composition perspective, if you put me next to you, then who do I look like?

Lebron? Jeremy Lin? The best college player in the state? The best high school player in the city?

Whereas you're the fat kid that goes to Band Camp

Burnem Wizfyre said:
That happens at injection points for type one diabetics because of the effects of insulin on the ability to burn fat. If you want pictures I’ll link the gross ass fat clumps that form around long term insulin injections at the same spot. You are literally arguing against something as well known as gravity is the reason shit falls to the ground. You are a glaring example of Dunning-Kruger.

Burnem Wizfyre · Mar 5, 2021

Kirun said:
Burnem Wizfyre is a good American and I'm not trying to shit on the guy. I applaud his weight loss as it isn't an easy task and there's a TON of bad information out there in regards to diet/exercise. And as a former fatty and food addict, I know how difficult that shit can be. I just happen to think he's misinformed about the mechanisms behind fasting and how/why it works in regards to energy storage/consumption/weight loss.

But, I'm always open to learning more shit about diet, so if he has compelling evidence on how/why fasting significantly increases BMR, I'm all ears.

Here is what happens, once the body runs out of all the glucose and glucagon and all that stored energy and has no choice but to access the fat, it ramps up your BMR for two reasons. First reason is you have plenty of fat available, on a lean person this wouldn’t happen and muscle breakdown would begin to occur and actual starvation would be happening. The reason behind this is we didn’t not evolve in the world we find ourselves in today, our ancestors went great amounts of time without food. The body ramps up our metabolism to give you more energy to go find that food, can’t be sluggish and out of energy when trying to locate that food. I think I did that second reason already lol.

Burnem Wizfyre · Mar 5, 2021

Ossoi said:
And from a body composition perspective, if you put me next to you, then who do I look like?

Lebron? Jeremy Lin? The best college player in the state? The best high school player in the city?

Whereas you're the fat kid that goes to Band Camp

View attachment 339895

Address Lypohypertrophy please.

Burnem Wizfyre · Mar 5, 2021

Ossoi said:
Nah bro, don't you get it? It wasn't the calorie deficit, it wasn't the training, it wasn't the weight lifting.

You see, when you were asleep for 6-8 hours, on the shitter or playing world of wacraft, driving to work etc You were not eating, you were fasting. Your body can only lose weight when it's not eating, because fasting is magic.

This is you clearly not understanding basic fucking biology, you’re a retard.

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