Weight Loss Thread

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Moogalak

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Took my first shot of tirzepatide last night. Don't really feel anything yet. Ate less than usual but only because I wanted to avoid the getting sick if eating too much syndrome. Already fell down a rabbit hole that lead me to ..... bodybuilder steroid forums and Chinese chemical plants that do business via email and whats app in search of how people are getting this stuff on the cheap. My future supplier posted her tits on the BB forum and claimed to be a tranny from the Chinese interior.....

If I disappear, it was a bad batch.

Get some GasX. Mounjaro (for me) causes lots of gas burps, and it seems that the gas buildup can cause some nausea.
 

ToeMissile

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I posted this in the health thread the other day, I’m about half way through now. Lots of great/clear info but also pretty frightening. TLDR, there’s sugar in everything and processed food is literally poison.

 
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Sanrith Descartes

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there’s sugar in everything and processed food is literally poison.



game of thrones agree GIF
 

ToeMissile

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For sure, just the clarity and detail of the mechanics at work are eye opening.

While my “sugar in everything “ statement above is a little hyperbolic, for processed stuff it isn’t far off. This includes non-caloric sweeteners, they stimulate an insulin response in a way that is less bad than corn syrup/etc, but still not good.

Anyhow, we’re all pretty well aware that any big industry is at best a mixed bag, educate yourself so you can make informed decisions.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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For sure, just the clarity and detail of the mechanics at work are eye opening.

While my “sugar in everything “ statement above is a little hyperbolic, for processed stuff it isn’t far off. This includes non-caloric sweeteners, they stimulate an insulin response in a way that is less bad than corn syrup/etc, but still not good.

Anyhow, we’re all pretty well aware that any big industry is at best a mixed bag, educate yourself so you can make informed decisions.
Been almost 6 months since I cut out caffeine, as much processed food as I can (obviously not 100%) and salt. Make my own bread, ice cream etc. Did my annual bloodwork last months and its damned near perfect. Even cholesterol is 2 basis points from being in the good category.
 

Captain Suave

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This includes non-caloric sweeteners, they stimulate an insulin response in a way that is less bad than corn syrup/etc, but still not good.

I don't think it's as clear-cut as that. The current state of understanding is not definitive and muddied by the vagaries and limitations of the studies.

tldr; "The inconsistencies in the literature are synopsized by trials in sucralose: one study reported higher blood glucose levels, one study found lower blood glucose levels, and nine studies found no changes."


Spoiler for wall of text.


AS & Blood Glucose Regulation

The main hypothesis here is that the sweet perception alters glycemic and insulin responses, and sweet receptors in the gut are activated in response to AS, increasing glucose uptake. In relation to the former, a trial in morbidly obese subjects but with normal insulin sensitivity [assessed by HOMA-IR] found greater peak plasma glucose levels and insulin response to a 75g oral glucose tolerance test [OGTT] 10-mins after a pre-load with 48mg of the AS sucralose [33]. This study has challenged prior research looking at sucralose, which was considered to have no impact on carbohydrate metabolism in multiple studies looking at glycemic responses [34].


It is difficult to reconcile the current literature in relation to glycemic or insulin responses from sucralose. In the SCF review of sucralose safety, a 6-month study in Type-2 diabetics found a consistent increase above baseline in HbA1c, a marker of long-term glycemic control, in subjects given 667mg sucralose daily. However, this occurred in the absence of impacts on any other markers of glucose regulation, including insulin or blood glucose levels [35]. The SCF review ultimately concluded that as the amounts administered were greater than consumption levels even in high consumers, any effect would be so small as to be clinically insignificant [35]. In the trial finding greater peak plasma glucose and insulin responses to an OGTT, the responses still remained within normal range for OGTT and amounted to nominal differences between sucralose group and controls [36]. The inconsistencies in the literature are synopsized by trials in sucralose: one study reported higher blood glucose levels, one study found lower blood glucose levels, and nine studies found no changes [36].


A recent systematic review of 28 trials of aspartame, sucralose, saccharin, and acesulfame-K confirmed the inconsistencies evident in the literature: some trials have found effects of AS on glucose metabolism while many have not found any interaction, and the significant heterogeneity between subjects, AS used, placebo, and outcome variables, limits comparisons [36]. Another issue is the comparison of AS to placebo, where arguably the appropriate trial design is a comparison with a caloric sweetener [3]. This is because, assuming AS do act to stimulate glucose uptake, this would occur in the context of low gut concentrations of glucose, while a caloric sweetener like sucrose would result in a greater amount of glucose absorbed [37]. This may explain why, in trials using OGTT, the observed differences in absorption are largely nominal [38].


Another issue is that the research in relation to the second limb of the hypothesis, the underlying mechanism of activating glucose transporters in the gut, is as inconsistent as the effects on blood glucose and/or insulin itself. One proposed mechanism is activation of glucagon-like peptide-1 [GLP-1], which has been assessed in 11 studies included in a systematic review: aspartame has been found to lower GLP-1, sucralose and acesulfame-K to increase GLP-1 concentrations [36]. Again, this is not consistent: a trial administering 72mg aspartame and 24mg sucralose or water before a 75g OGTT found no effect of either AS on GLP-1, insulin or glucose in Type-2 diabetics, although healthy subjects had a significantly higher GLP-1 area-under-the-curve from sucralose, but not aspartame [39].


An example of the noted limitations of trial design and resulting findings is evident in two trials. The first used diet soda as an intervention in healthy humans, with a beverage containing 46mg sucralose plus 26mg acesulfame-K, and found GLP-1 increased in response to OGTT compared to water [40]. However, the trial failed to control for compounds in the diet soda – including citric acid, potassium benzoate, phosphoric acid, potassium citrate, natural flavorings and colorings – which may have influenced the results [40]. Consequently, a subsequent trial administered 52mg sucralose, 200mg acesulfame-K, or 46mg sucralose plus 26mg acesulfame-K to healthy subjects, and found no effect of either treatment on GLP-1, blood glucose, or insulin concentrations (41). This is consistent with a trial showing no effect of sucralose administered through intraduodenal glucose feeding on GLP-1 or glucose uptake [42]. Taken as a whole, there are a number of trials that show some effect of AS on GLP-1 and glycemic response [39][40], while other studies [41][42] and a systematic review of 11 studies measuring GLP-1 [37] suggest that the majority of human studies have found no effect of AS on intestinal sweet taste receptors and glucose uptake. The biological basis for the limited studies finding such effect in humans remains unexplained [37].


A criticism of this area has been that, based on in vitro and animal model studies, many authors have reached outside the data to make speculative assumptions on the consequences of sweet-taste receptor activation on glucose regulation [37]. While potential mechanisms have been elucidated in vitro and in animal models, with limited supporting human data, the question begs: are the nominal effects of any clinical relevance? The overall body of evidence for a direct effect of AS on glycemic control is limited [3]. It would be an overreach on the basis of the evidence to say that AS influence blood glucose, insulin, and/or GLP-1 in humans; it would equally be an overreach to say they are biologically inert.

A less measured take from the same author for people who prefer video:

 
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Animosity

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Layne is the best on this. One of the only people who actual sites controlled studies. Most people just spew nonsense.
 
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Locnar

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Well I started on the peptides Nov 30th and on my scale, naked in the morning, I was 231. Figured I'd give an update 2 months in. This morning on same scale same condition I am 215.5

No side effects to speak up, just don't have intense cravings anymore and smaller amounts of food fill me up and the hunger is very rare. I've found it to be pretty amazing actually.

For the first month I took the smallest dose , which is to I guess get your body use to it and see if you have bad sides. After that I've been on the lowest therapeutic dose there is and find it just fine. No extra exercise (which I should change, I know)
 
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ToeMissile

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Well I started on the peptides Nov 30th and on my scale, naked in the morning, I was 231. Figured I'd give an update 2 months in. This morning on same scale same condition I am 215.5

No side effects to speak up, just don't have intense cravings anymore and smaller amounts of food fill me up and the hunger is very rare. I've found it to be pretty amazing actually.

For the first month I took the smallest dose , which is to I guess get your body use to it and see if you have bad sides. After that I've been on the lowest therapeutic dose there is and find it just fine. No extra exercise (which I should change, I know)
All the new weight loss drugs are peptide based? I’m assuming they work similarly in that a large portion of the weight you lose is muscle. Better start working out sooner rather than later.
 

Locnar

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All the new weight loss drugs are peptide based? I’m assuming they work similarly in that a large portion of the weight you lose is muscle. Better start working out sooner rather than later.

Well I'm careful to eat a lot of protein each day. I love milk and whey. I still eat plenty each day but now that I'm not eating the junk and crap I use to , its naturally at a slight deficient. You think 7 lbs a month with good proteins intake would still lead to more muscle loss than fat loss?
 

Animosity

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Well I'm careful to eat a lot of protein each day. I love milk and whey. I still eat plenty each day but now that I'm not eating the junk and crap I use to , its naturally at a slight deficient. You think 7 lbs a month with good proteins intake would still lead to more muscle loss than fat loss?
If you do nothing to preserve or build muscle it will go away faster than the fat.
 
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Cutlery

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Yeah, you can eat all the protein you want, but if you're not doing anything to encourage synthesis of it, youre gonna burn whatever is available.

its kinda the point of all of this stuff - there's no free rides. Nutrition and training is the way, it's proven to be the way, and if you take shortcuts, you'll suffer the effects of the shortcuts, whatever they may be.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Yeah, you can eat all the protein you want, but if you're not doing anything to encourage synthesis of it, youre gonna burn whatever is available.

its kinda the point of all of this stuff - there's no free rides. Nutrition and training is the way, it's proven to be the way, and if you take shortcuts, you'll suffer the effects of the shortcuts, whatever they may be.
This be true. I have been doing cardio for years but havent touched free weights in forever. Even though my mass is roughly the same, the first time I grabbed the weights I was appalled by how much less strength I had vs 10 years ago. Its a slow slog back.
 
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ToeMissile

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This be true. I have been doing cardio for years but havent touched free weights in forever. Even though my mass is roughly the same, the first time I grabbed the weights I was appalled by how much less strength I had vs 10 years ago. Its a slow slog back.
This, I forget the numbers but there’s something like 1% loss of muscle mass per year after 40 and it keeps ramping up as you age.
 

Cutlery

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And I watched a video a few days ago where Jeff Nippard cited a study saying something like seniors on a high protein diet (talking 1g/lb of body weight, kind of a crossover from the pol discussion too), also have something like a 70% less chance of breaking bones and shit.

Protein super important as you age - we are all getting older, and we're never gonna look like Arnold. For us it's important to slow the rate of loss of what we have. Remember the golden rule of the elderly too - whenever you stop moving, that's when you die. Every old person I've ever known that stopped doing shit went downhill in a remarkably quick pace.
 
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Captain Suave

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Yup, plus resistance training helps maintain bone density ie not busting a hip or something while taking a spill.

High-impact activities, too. My wife tried to take part in an osteoporosis study and was thrown out because her bone density was off the scale from 20 years of falls in judo and jiu jitsu. Gymnasts get this, too, if they eat enough.
 

ToeMissile

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High-impact activities, too. My wife tried to take part in an osteoporosis study and was thrown out because her bone density was off the scale from 20 years of falls in judo and jiu jitsu. Gymnasts get this, too, if they eat enough.
For sure. Gymnastics is a rough one though, a lot of wear and tear. I did it pretty hardcore as a kid for a while and am pretty suspicious it’s responsible for stunting my height a bit. Overall a win though as it gave me an above average agility/body awareness/control. I can even still do decent hand-stand.
 

Daidraco

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I "guess" this can go here. Its Weight Loss, but not... like lose 100 pounds kind of weight loss.

Im trying to cut by a small bit, as Im starting to get some pudge around my sides. My gains have went up substantially since I started "bulking" but.. even counting macro's.. not all days are equal so my pre-planned meals are too much some days and not enough on others. Im up to 218 as of this evening, since really starting into weight lifting back in October. I would like to get back down to ~200, but Im sketch on cutting too hard and too fast, not only because Im afraid Ill lose muscle/power, but because I will nerd rage if Im hungry for too long.

For reference, this is what I worked out for my size and Ive been sticking to it since roughly the end of November (Since I know Ill be asked):
Meal 1: 205gr Eggs, 50gr Oatmeal, 125gr Banana.
Meal 2: 150gr Chicken, 20gr Olive Oil, 185gr White Rice - (oil fits the macros and makes the meal no so plain).
Meal 3: 65gr Protein Powder, 405gr Green Apples
Meal 4: 55gr Lean Ground Turkey, 185 Gr, White Rice
Workout - 780ml "Regular" Gatorade.

I have scales, and measuring cups and all that - but Im just kind of eye balling it since I know roughly what the amount looks like, but its still probably higher than stated.

Now that thats out of the way, on to the actual question.
I was using Complete Nutrition's Hardcore Platinum Burn -
burn-facts.jpg

I wasnt sure if it was doing anything when I was taking it. I felt like I was body temp "hot", but thats it. Now that Ive been away from preworkout for a while, and Im not taking anything like that.. I feel like Im not getting as good of a workout as I used to. My shirt isnt drenched when I leave the gym - but I have a full on hour and a half, to two hour regiment of weight lifting. Wednesdays is my rest/core day, and 30 minutes of stairs is in that - but I guess Im not really "wanting" to focus more on cardio to cut back some of this weight.

Have any of you tried anything like that, that you looked back on and thought it worked well?

(Oh and I take an assortment of Vitamins (Animal Pack, Fish Oil) and Instant Creatine.)