Westworld

Jait · Jun 28, 2018

If Westworld was McDonalds they served everyone fish tacos today.

It wasn’t what we expected and it tasted like shit. But we should all applaud McDonalds for trying something no one expected or asked for and had nothing to do with their original menu.

Merrith · Jun 28, 2018

Xevy said:
My feelings? I'm literally asking a question. Don't be a retard. Did you guys want season 3 to stay in the park or Maeve become Queen of Westworld or what? No one has said what should have happened, just how mad they are about what did happen.

I would have liked the whole William/Ford story to actually have a real conclusion. It seemed extremely scripted at the start of the season that Ford had put in an underlying narrative for William to follow and what not, ended up going completely off rails with random meet ups with Maeve, then the painfully obvious shit that went down with his daughter that was done in a pretty poor way shoehorned in around the aware Ghost Tribe leader episode. Then he meets Dolores, who has been going around punishing everyone she thinks deserves it...but when faced with the one person you know she would think deserves to be killed the most, she just settles for causing his gun to misfire and blowing off part of his hand? Then...nothing? We think he's about to be a player in the Dolores/Bernard confrontation but it's just a swerve to some random future point when he's getting fidelity test number X?

Season 1 had a clearly defined story that progressed at a great pace. Season 2 felt like they were making up and throwing shit in as they went along.

Malakriss · Jun 28, 2018

More thought was put into this single Silicon Valley scene than the entire 2nd season of Westworld.

Lanx · Jun 28, 2018

This is why Season 1 is SUPERIOR in every way to Season 2
Season 1:
Episode
1,2
writers
Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy
3
Lisa Joy,Daniel T. Thomsen
4
Jonathan Nolan, Ed Brubaker
5
Lisa Joy, Dominic Mitchell
6
Halley Gross & Jonathan Nolan
7
Halley Gross & Jonathan Nolan
8
Charles Yu Lisa Joy
9
Dan Dietz Katherine Lingenfelteriki
10
Lisa Joy & Jonathan Nolan

Season 2:
1
Lisa Joy & Roberto Patino
2
Carly Wray & Jonathan Nolan
3
Roberto Patino & Ron Fitzgerald
4
Gina Atwater & Jonathan Nolan
5
Dan Dietz
6
Carly Wray
7
Jordan Goldberg & Ron Fitzgerald
8
Dan Dietz & Carly Wray
9
Roberto Patino
10
Jonathan Nolan & Lisa Joy

In s1 they always had writer control (aside from eps9), in s2 they got lazy and let these other fucks tell a fucking convoluted story, ONLY TO piece together this fucked up puzzle at the end in eps 10 (on obviously, the fucking puzzle didn't fit right, then we have "STUBBS is a ROBOT!!!")

GuardianX · Jun 28, 2018

Xevy said:
What did you guys want to happen? I honestly don't understand what you all wanted the finale to do.

A season finale is supposed to give you a twinge of, "I wonder what will happen!!?" we were literally told what will happen...

Bernard will be the Yang to Delores' Yin...

I'm guessing MiB won't even be relevant next season because his "Story" is done, he is stuck in purgatory..

Xevy said:
My feelings? I'm literally asking a question. Don't be a retard. Did you guys want season 3 to stay in the park or Maeve become Queen of Westworld or what? No one has said what should have happened, just how mad they are about what did happen.

It was fine that Season 2 was in the park, it expanded on what happened with season 1. As for season 3, who knows, maybe they will break expectations and we will get more than 1-2 episodes from their teased "new content area" like we settled for this season. Personally I just am so underwhelmed with the Delores character and she will be the focus of Season 3 along-side Bernard. Her character is just so weak compared to the other characters, she isn't a "Strong" female role she's just a pain in the ass. An entire season of her just sounds exhausting.

Rengak · Jun 28, 2018

Xevy said:
What did you guys want to happen? I honestly don't understand what you all wanted the finale to do.

I would have liked for the finale to not introduce several new elements that all had to be explained with limited time. Season 1 finale we learned that the maze was actually a way for the hosts to achieve consciousness, and that Dolores is actually Wyatt and killed everyone back in the early days of the park.

In the Season 2 finale we learned :

The Valley Beyond/ Glory/ etc is actually the forge, a data backup center
The forge has a digital Logan inside it
The forge has learned to reduce humans down to 10,000 lines of code and claims we cannot change, even though we saw Sizemore sacrifice himself to further muddy the philosophical waters
Bernard has been coming to the forge to create a place for hosts to live outside the park
The Forge can create a portal to suck out the hosts minds to digital heaven
Stubbs was a robot the entire time
William eventually ends up in the fidelity test
Dolores beams the hosts virtual heaven to somewhere
'Present Day' Charlotte Hale was a robot
Bernard scrambled his own brain to prevent Delos from finding out what happened, which is why he has been acting funny all season.

Only the last item on the list had any real foreshadowing, and the Charlotte-bot probably has some more which can be seen on a second viewing. But everything else was just thrown at the viewer.

I am going to omit the Dolores and Bernard stuff outside the park / Dolores doing the fidelity interviews all season because that is a set up for the next season. But even then all the language they use is so vague we need interviews from the creators to explain what next season is going to be about.

Overall I liked the season, but I thought the finale was too much. Honestly if they just cut out the virtual Logan stuff and just say the forge has all the guests data I think it would work as a good episode of television.

hory · Jun 28, 2018

I have a real problem with the entire clementine dramatic horse ride through the crowd scene. It makes ZERO sense, other then to save the main point of the season, for them to use her to make the hosts fight. Why not program her to re-purpose the hosts to be come submissive again, or just simply shut down.

Given the option to A. Save a billion dollars worth or property or B. Burn it to the ground for no good reason anyone would take A. It's more work to make them fight, more of a mess, and more can go wrong. The only reason to manufacture such a totally BS scene is to save the underling plot of the entire season.

pisses me off

Rengak · Jun 28, 2018

hory said:
I have a real problem with the entire clementine dramatic horse ride through the crowd scene. It makes ZERO sense, other then to save the main point of the season, for them to use her to make the hosts fight. Why not program her to re-purpose them to be come submissive again, or just shut down.

Given the option to A. Save a billion dollars worth or property or B. Burn it to the ground for no good reason anyone would take A. It's more work to make them fight, more of a mess, and more can go wrong. The only reason to manufacture such a totally BS scene is to save the underling plot of the entire season.

pisses me off

Well, Maeve never made any hosts shut down either, she made them all kill each other.

hory · Jun 28, 2018

Well, Maeve never made any hosts shut down either, she made them all kill each other.

In samurai land she restrained several hosts, also towards the end of the battle royal she restrained them all, froze motor functions.

I just think given the resources, 10 Million per episode? They could have done a better job. The writing was sub-par and they wrote themselves out of holes, and that's not the way to do it.

Lanx · Jun 28, 2018

hory said:
I have a real problem with the entire clementine dramatic horse ride through the crowd scene. It makes ZERO sense, other then to save the main point of the season, for them to use her to make the hosts fight. Why not program her to re-purpose the hosts to be come submissive again, or just simply shut down.

Given the option to A. Save a billion dollars worth or property or B. Burn it to the ground for no good reason anyone would take A. It's more work to make them fight, more of a mess, and more can go wrong. The only reason to manufacture such a totally BS scene is to save the underling plot of the entire season.

pisses me off

the only way to put them into sleep mode is to say "may you rest in a deep and dreamless slumber", which is probably a high level command.

a low level swarm command like "go kill the other robot" is probably easy to do

of course in the end maeve w/ her super swarm bluetooth and ford super admin was able to Neo hand freeze all motor functions, so who knows.

pharmakos · Jun 28, 2018

Lanx said:
the only way to put them into sleep mode is to say "may you rest in a deep and dreamless slumber", which is probably a high level command.

"Cease all motor functions"

Ossoi · Jun 28, 2018

Don't know what the lovefest for the Expanse is about. Watched s1 and it was decent enough. Didn't get into s2 (probably because I used to watch all my TV shows whilst getting high and then quit we

Rengak said:
I would have liked for the finale to not introduce several new elements that all had to be explained with limited time. Season 1 finale we learned that the maze was actually a way for the hosts to achieve consciousness, and that Dolores is actually Wyatt and killed everyone back in the early days of the park.

In the Season 2 finale we learned :

The Valley Beyond/ Glory/ etc is actually the forge, a data backup center
The forge has a digital Logan inside it
The forge has learned to reduce humans down to 10,000 lines of code and claims we cannot change, even though we saw Sizemore sacrifice himself to further muddy the philosophical waters
Bernard has been coming to the forge to create a place for hosts to live outside the park
The Forge can create a portal to suck out the hosts minds to digital heaven
Stubbs was a robot the entire time
William eventually ends up in the fidelity test
Dolores beams the hosts virtual heaven to somewhere
'Present Day' Charlotte Hale was a robot
Bernard scrambled his own brain to prevent Delos from finding out what happened, which is why he has been acting funny all season.

Only the last item on the list had any real foreshadowing, and the Charlotte-bot probably has some more which can be seen on a second viewing. But everything else was just thrown at the viewer.

I am going to omit the Dolores and Bernard stuff outside the park / Dolores doing the fidelity interviews all season because that is a set up for the next season. But even then all the language they use is so vague we need interviews from the creators to explain what next season is going to be about.

Overall I liked the season, but I thought the finale was too much. Honestly if they just cut out the virtual Logan stuff and just say the forge has all the guests data I think it would work as a good episode of television.

hory · Jun 28, 2018

Delos should have brought in a few china men. They would have reverse engineered and stole Fords tech so fast! They would have know the inter workings forwards and backwards!

BrutulTM · Jun 28, 2018

A guy on a podcast I heard was talking earlier in the season about how he thought the Dolores was going to be the "Satan" character and he wasn't sure who the God figure was. It seems like we got the answer to that at least, that Dolores is robot Satan, and Bernard is robot God, or perhaps Ford is god and Bernard is Jesus Christ.

I really feel like they got so into making things complicated and unexpected that they forgot to make a coherent story or make us give a shit about any of the characters. I didn't even watch the finale until a couple days after it aired and then it took me two nights to get through it. I don't think that's ever happened to me with an HBO series before.

kaid · Jun 28, 2018

hory said:
I have a real problem with the entire clementine dramatic horse ride through the crowd scene. It makes ZERO sense, other then to save the main point of the season, for them to use her to make the hosts fight. Why not program her to re-purpose the hosts to be come submissive again, or just simply shut down.

Given the option to A. Save a billion dollars worth or property or B. Burn it to the ground for no good reason anyone would take A. It's more work to make them fight, more of a mess, and more can go wrong. The only reason to manufacture such a totally BS scene is to save the underling plot of the entire season.

pisses me off

Honestly given the whole design of the theme park is a murder it is probably just easier to toggle hosts into kill hosts mode than into shut down mode given that is a pretty core type drive for all of them.

Raes · Jun 28, 2018

kaid said:
Honestly given the whole design of the theme park is a murder it is probably just easier to toggle hosts into kill hosts mode than into shut down mode given that is a pretty core type drive for all of them.

Actually, most of the hosts are designed to be victims. I don't see how you get the opposite idea.

GuardianX · Jun 28, 2018

Ossoi said:
Don't know what the lovefest for the Expanse is about. Watched s1 and it was decent enough. Didn't get into s2 (probably because I used to watch all my TV shows whilst getting high and then quit ..

For me the love with the expanse is simple.

It's a simple show pulling off a a decent story, there isn't a bunch of "complex" bullshit in the story relating to flashbacks and retconning and underlined moral pining. It's basically like this:

Season 1 -- Fucking people hate each other and don't know why
Season 2 -- Fucking people hate each other and are kinda figuring out why now...
Season 3 --

Fucking people who hate each other, stand in a place where they all touch noses while in a trash compactor as it closes

Season 4 --

(Prediction) Fucking people who hate each other get a LOT more space to spread out and hate each other in.

EDIT:

The Expanse feels like "Mass Effect" the TV show IMHO.

---

Westworld basically should have expanded on a couple things:

Season 1 -- People are generally cool, but a few are assholes. (this is basically what happened + sentience attained)
Season 2 -- Robots figure out that people are generally cool, but a few are assholes. (This SHOULD have happened, but it was so glossed over and the human sacrifices were so pointless they borderline meaningless)
Season 3 -- People figure out that robots are generally cool, but a few are assholes. (This is Animatrix...)

The issue that WW is running into is that it wants to have villains but they spent the whole season killing anyone we really cared about calling a villain, aside from Delores. For some reason she isn't a villain..

Ossoi · Jun 28, 2018

GuardianX said:
For me the love with the expanse is simple.

It's a simple show pulling off a a decent story, there isn't a bunch of "complex" bullshit in the story relating to flashbacks and retconning and underlined moral pining. It's basically like this:

Season 1 -- Fucking people hate each other and don't know why
Season 2 -- Fucking people hate each other and are kinda figuring out why now...
Season 3 --

Fucking people who hate each other, stand in a place where they all touch noses while in a trash compactor as it closes

Season 4 --

(Prediction) Fucking people who hate each other get a LOT more space to spread out and hate each other in.

EDIT:

The Expanse feels like "Mass Effect" the TV show IMHO.

---

Westworld basically should have expanded on a couple things:

Season 1 -- People are generally cool, but a few are assholes. (this is basically what happened + sentience attained)
Season 2 -- Robots figure out that people are generally cool, but a few are assholes. (This SHOULD have happened, but it was so glossed over and the human sacrifices were so pointless they borderline meaningless)
Season 3 -- People figure out that robots are generally cool, but a few are assholes. (This is Animatrix...)

The issue that WW is running into is that it wants to have villains but they spent the whole season killing anyone we really cared about calling a villain, aside from Delores. For some reason she isn't a villain..

I didn't realise I actually posted that hence why it's unfinished.

I made the effort to finish season 2 then started s3, it was ok at the beginning with the Mars/Earth stuff. I've always found the acting a little cheesy and that UN Senator women just brings back memories of "BEHROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ"

Got bored halfway through the season, I just don't rate it or the acting

GuardianX · Jun 28, 2018

Ossoi said:
Got bored halfway through the season, I just don't rate it or the acting

Ya, that's basically where Westworld season 2 hit me.

With WW, I don't know, I didn't give them as much of a pass because season 1 was SO good that season 2 should have been closer in quality but it wasn't and I don't really wanna re-quote what everyone has already said here.

With The expanse, I already know it's the SyFy channel and usually their stuff is "B" ish actors. The story was compelling enough that I was interested in the world and the story didn't contain any glaring issues aside from how people were acting their parts. Aside from that, the show was masterfully done on the technical side, fights in orbit causing issues on ground, sound being dampened in space, slowdown burns...ECT...the show has their technical team on TOP of things.

Jait · Jun 28, 2018

You have to care what happens to the characters. Expanse finds a way to make a Sociopath a lovable endearing character. Westworld did the same with MiB and others in season 1.

Season 2 proved beyond any doubt every character has plot armor. It was impossible to care. Half of the “deaths” were limbo deaths based ENTIRELY on contract negotiations.

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