Westworld

Woolygimp · Oct 19, 2016

Braen said:
I think the differences in what happens when the bullets hit is even more telling.

It's like paintball. They hurt like a motherfucker when you first start playing, but after years you just shrug them off - even when they leave bloody whelps. After being in the park for 30 years, he's become pretty damn accustomed to getting hit. There really doesn't need to be any new ballistic technology according to the quote by Aedan.

The conclusion we can draw is that the Man in Black has been shot a...lot, while William was shot for the first time. The original WW logo PROVES that William is in the past though, it's not debatable.

It's like seeing the 1992 Jeep Sahara and knowing you're watching Jurassic Park, and then seeing the glass bubble vehicles and knowing that you're watching Jurassic World (20 years in the future). The logo's are totally different and are only shown at pivotal moments.

TJT · Oct 19, 2016

Woolygimp said:
Can we do some sort of avatar bet that William is the MiB? If those fucking Westworld logo's don't convince you that we are watching two distinctly different timelines (and that William is in the past), then I don't know what to tell you.

I wasn't being facetious or anything. I am honestly appreciative of your elaborate theories here Sir.

No sarcasm. Brofist.

Kiroy · Oct 19, 2016

Woolygimp said:
Can we do some sort of avatar bet that William is the MiB? If those fucking Westworld logo's don't convince you that we are watching two distinctly different timelines (and that William is in the past), then I don't know what to tell you.

You probably already explained but is William a robot or are we seeing different timelines?

Woolygimp · Oct 19, 2016

Different timelines. Everything that doesn't have William in it is from the present. Here's an earlier post.

Woolygimp said:
William is the Man in Black.

It's fucking confirmed. Why? The logo's.

When William arrives at the park, the logo for Westworld is the original one used during the flashback when they were first creating the hosts. The flashback when Ford was explaining Arnold to Bernard.
William is obviously in a much older version of the park. There are other hints such as the bullet, the train being newer, and the narratives being different.

This is the only logo you see with William. With every other character on the show, including the MiB, you see the much newer logo:

The actor who plays William has facial features very, very similar to Ed Harris (if you throw 30 years into the mix). So yeah, not a theory anymore.

So the MiB is not Arnold trying to become immortal and set his "creations" loose.

If you had to take a look at either of those logos, which one looks like one from the 90's and the other a newer, sleeker more modern one? Actually take a second to compare how completely different they are.

Kiroy · Oct 19, 2016

Woolygimp said:
Different timelines. Everything that doesn't have William in it is from the present. Here's an earlier post.

But dolores just stumbled into there camp after running - this is post her having memories of man in black, so that doesn't work right? Not saying your wrong just trying to figure this out.

Woolygimp · Oct 19, 2016

No. Her stumbling into the camp was a memory of her past. The way the shot goes is present, then past, present, then past, present, then past.... She realizes she was shot (her past), looks down sees no bullet (remembers her past) and runs (the present), very next scene she falls into Williams arms which is clever editing, but it's her remembering her past.

Past: She sees her old father (Abernathy)
Present : She sees her new father
and it plays out like this in five or six different aspects, all following the same present/past scheme.

The scene repeats itself like this over and over, but it ends on a scene which following the order which had been established should be the past.

Kiroy · Oct 19, 2016

Woolygimp said:
No. Her stumbling into the camp was a memory of her past. The way the shot goes is present, then past, present, then past, present, then past.... She realizes she was shot (her past), looks down sees no bullet (remembers her past) and runs (the present), very next scene she falls into Williams arms which is clever editing, but it's her remembering her past.

1 Past: She sees her old father (Abernathy)
1 Present : She sees her new father

The scene repeats itself like this over and over, but it ends on a scene which following the order which had been established should be the past.

It could be that but seems way overly complicated.

What about this, in I think the second episode, a present day employee that we've seen in both timelines if your theory is correct, comments that the MiB get's carte blanche in the park. This only really squares if we assume all the employees are also robots.

edit: actually I guess this would just be the present, and ONLY william's scenes are past scenes. Don't remember seeing any present day human (maybe) characters in william's scenes.

Think i'm following now. Can anyone else refute this theory?

Mist · Oct 19, 2016

Lithose said:
Abernathe is the first to say it--the day after the MIB is around when they all die. He had plenty of time to tamper with them. All the people who have said the line so far, had some experience with the MIB.

I'm pretty sure the MiB has interacted with every host in the park.

My main problem with the 'William is the MiB' idea is that if William is in the old park, why aren't the hosts more robotic back then?

Woolygimp · Oct 19, 2016

Kiroy said:
It could be that but seems way overly complicated.

What about this, in I think the second episode, a present day employee that we've seen in both timelines if your theory is correct, comments that the MiB get's carte blanche in the park. This only really squares if we assume all the employees are also robots.

What? You never see that employee with William (Luke Hemsworth). You don't see William interact with any employees, only hosts.

Rewatch the episodes with the idea that every scene with William is 30 years in the past. Pay attention to the details. Look at the train in the first episode and look how old it looks, then look when William is on it and how it looks brand fucking new. Notice that all of the narratives are completely different.
Nothing going on in the park seems to effect William or Lucas. They are basically in a bubble.

Kiroy · Oct 19, 2016

Woolygimp said:
What? You never see that employee with William (Luke Hemsworth). You don't see William interact with any employees, only hosts.

Yup check my edit I caught myself.

Kiroy · Oct 19, 2016

Mist said:
I'm pretty sure the MiB has interacted with every host in the park.

My main problem with the 'William is the MiB' idea is that if William is in the old park, why aren't the hosts more robotic back then?

Well we don't know how old the park is, that's only what... 30-40 years ago park? There might not be many changes in the robot tech. Do we have a timeline on how long ago the robots were shit?

I'm liking

Woolygimp theory

Woolygimp · Oct 19, 2016

Kiroy, read my ninja edit. If you aren't convinced after a rewatch then I'd be amazed. William/Lucas' plotline doesn't cross any other character or plot point in even the slightest manner, it's like they're in their very own special version of the park (and they are; the past). None of the narratives are even the same. The prostitutes aren't even behaving in a manner consistent with the present.

Woolygimp · Oct 19, 2016

Kiroy said:
Well we don't know how old the park is, that's only what... 30-40 years ago park? There might not be many changes in the robot tech. Do we have a timeline on how long ago the robots were shit?

I'm liking Woolygimp theory

We are told the oldest host was the guy who played the instrument that Ford talked to in EP1.

Dolores is the oldest host still active in the park (hint). The "robot" tech seems to have been phased out pretty rapidly, perhaps even before the park opened.

Kiroy · Oct 19, 2016

Woolygimp said:
Kiroy, read my ninja edit. If you aren't convinced after a rewatch then I'd be amazed. William/Lucas' plotline doesn't cross any other character or plot point in even the slightest manner, it's like they're in their very own special version of the park (and they are; the past).

You've convinced me unless someone has some good evidence I've forget or a future show disproves.

Woolygimp · Oct 19, 2016

I'm really speculating here but I am really, really fucking convinced Ford murdered Arnold.

Look at 0:35 for the preview of EP4. Imagine what that kind of man would do with someone who's accomplishments would basically ruin him financially and his life's work. Why would a host kill Arnold, when they speak so fondly of him? Ford is suspiciously vague about his death, hinting that it was either suicide or murder but places the blame on the hosts trying to scare Bernard into not continuing Arnold's work.

"Arnold was careful, it was no accident." to Bernard right before warning Bernard to stop toying with the androids.

Lithose · Oct 19, 2016

Mist said:
I'm pretty sure the MiB has interacted with every host in the park.

My main problem with the 'William is the MiB' idea is that if William is in the old park, why aren't the hosts more robotic back then?

Yep, probably, but I mean they make a point of him being around or being seen in the malfunctions with Hosts who can't escape or are at his mercy.

Just something else for William=MIB, not sure if its true or not, but from episode 3.

CaughtCross · Oct 19, 2016

William not interacting with any other humans besides his buddy and the logo thing is pretty strong evidence. Plus Jonathan Nolan wrote the short story that was the basis of the movie Memento, the guy likes messing around with timelines to tell a story. Looks like we are gonna see the incident that happened 30 years ago at the park.

Ladro · Oct 19, 2016

CaughtCross said:
William not interacting with any other humans besides his buddy and the logo thing is pretty strong evidence. Plus Jonathan Nolan wrote the short story that was the basis of the movie Memento, the guy likes messing around with timelines to tell a story. Looks like we are gonna see the incident that happened 30 years ago at the park.

Also the screenplay for The Prestige, one of my favorite movies. Guy knows how to fuck with people and timelines, so it wouldn't surprise me if William is the MiB.

TJT · Oct 20, 2016

I am also hanging my hat on

Woolygimp 's autist analysis.

I will maintain that they key evidence is Chekov's Delores is Old. No reason to mention that she is the oldest running host on the park who hasn't changed (other than repairs) if they didn't intend to do some timeline shenanigans.

Springbok · Oct 20, 2016

Welcome back Wooly, I'm all over this theory. Hard to find holes in it - this feels like the early days in the LOST thread. Don't fuck us over, JJ

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