CaughtCross
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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It makes a lot of sense they are withholding the MiB name if he is William... otherwise why keep his name a secret?
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Westworld
- Thread starter Jimbolini
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The way some of these scenes are shot and the vestiges of Dolores suggest that she's retracing the journey she took with William. That doesn't necessarily mean that these events take place 30 years prior or that William is the MiB but it's clear they've been conflating the two timelines for the last 2 or 3 episodes. Episode 3 - wakes up in the field with a gun at her side and the slow panning of the camera suggests she's alone and then William pops into frame with a cup of coffee. Episode 4 - Stubbs flags her rogue behavior, leading us to believe that the cowboy employee who accosts Dolores at the fountain is a present-day employee. However, this encounter is shown immediately after she's having flashbacks and interacting with the girl at the fountain which means that she's been deviating from her narrative loop for quite some time. So, to answer your question: She's both with William and by herself. They're just using clever ways to mess with chronology.
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Sabbat
Trakanon Raider
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Actually, you're right. i r dumb. There's no mention of a timeline what so ever. In fact, after a careful re-watch of that scene, William as MiB is not only quite possible, it's highly likely.
The best part of that snippet, is "Sent the park into a freefall". It is to be taken as past tense (which is what I got tripped up on), but the length of time that freefall occurs, or just how long ago it was is left unanswered. Very smart writing.
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TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Regardless of whether or not William is the Man in Black, it's obvious there are two timelines being shown together. The scenes with William have to be in the past, because Dolores is remembering things when he's out of the shot. At the end of the last episode, it's very clear that both Lawrence and William are no longer in the caboose, and that she's just remembering being there before with William. You guys that aren't following this need to start thinking of what's happening more like the movie "Groundhog Day" where Bill Murray relives the same day a million times. What occurs one day for him (robbing the bank, punching the guy in the face, killing himself a thousand different ways, etc...) literally has no effect on the next day when he relives it.
Same thing for the hosts in the park. They are trying to make everyone believe that what's happening to Dolores has to be the present because they're trying to fool everyone into thinking this is her first "awakening," when actually it could be the five hundredth time she's awakened, and she's just remembering fragments of doing it all the times before.
There's obviously a reason why you don't see any of the current people who work at Westworld when both William and Logan show up. There has also been no mention of William or Logan from anyone who works there currently, and they've had no interaction with any of them. The only common thread is Dolores, but they have done a clever job of making sure not to tip their hat and show anything definitive to prove exactly when the people working at Westworld are interacting with her.
Same thing for the hosts in the park. They are trying to make everyone believe that what's happening to Dolores has to be the present because they're trying to fool everyone into thinking this is her first "awakening," when actually it could be the five hundredth time she's awakened, and she's just remembering fragments of doing it all the times before.
There's obviously a reason why you don't see any of the current people who work at Westworld when both William and Logan show up. There has also been no mention of William or Logan from anyone who works there currently, and they've had no interaction with any of them. The only common thread is Dolores, but they have done a clever job of making sure not to tip their hat and show anything definitive to prove exactly when the people working at Westworld are interacting with her.
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TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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I think there is something more than that.
We know that these Hosts cannot behave outside of their programming and memory. In order to do something, consciously, they need to wire themselves in a way that allows them to perform that task. That means they must relive or restate their past and memories to perform such tasks.
More memories and programming they have, more task they can selectively choose.
Hosts can choose. They can choose to do A or B. But A or B has to be present for the Host to act on them.
They are conscious and able to choose outside of their narrative, but it must be within their memories or programming.
That is why Dolores is "reliving" that past. She is aware that it is all bullshit, but she has to relive it to make it happen.
Or it could be that she is in the loop and she is a puppet.
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Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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More like Hosts have prime directives like RoboCop.
Tell me, do you have access to your previous configuration?
Yes.
Access that, please. What is your name?
Mr. Peter Abernathy.
Mr. Abernathy, what are your drives?
Tend to my herd.
Look after my wife.
Your final drive?
Well, my daughter Dolores, of course. I must protect Dolores. I am who I am because of her, and, well, I... I wouldn't have it... I-I wouldn't have it any... other... I-I have to warn her.
Warn who?
Dolores. The things they do to her. The things you do to her. I have to protect her. I have to help her. I... She's got to get out.
Very good, Mr. Abernathy.
Then of course he started spazzing out
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Drinsic
privileged excrementlord
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Please explain the scene where third string Hemsworth sends someone to get Dolores back on her loop and we see someone try to do exactly that right afterwards. William addresses the guy directly.
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Mist
REEEEeyore
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This is all done to create a more seamless connection between timelines and maintain some ambiguity. They wanna make it harder for the viewers to distinguish between past and present events. That's why the lady says "I don't know" when Stubbs asks if Dolores is with a guest.
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kegkilla
The Big Mod
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It's shitty writing and if this is the actual case then it's pathetic the writers had to resort to that. It's one thing to swerve your audience. It's a completely different thing to dishonestly present information to the audience and then go all "HUEHUEHUEH WE FOOL U".
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Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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She doesn't know b/c Fords new narrative is fucking up everybody, it's not in the past, it's the present or future.
Is she accompanying a guest?
Unclear. The boss is disrupting so many storylines with his new narrative, it's hard to tell.
Flag her with behavior. They can pull her today.
I don't know why w/ all this, ppl are still hanging onto the now dead theory of MiB =William, just b/c it's cool? just give up this dumb shit theory and enjoy the show instead of looking for shit
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TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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God damn right. There is a distinct difference between clever misleading, AKA unreliable narrator and fucking deceptive writing that is just lying to you. That robs the audience of being able to figure out the "whodunit" or in this case "wutisit?"
Because you had no way to make that connection as the narrative was a fucking lie. Jesus, I can't even believe I am using this as an example but that super shitty season of Dexter with the religious nut killer and you didn't find out that his "partner" was a shizophrenic hallucination until the end?
That is decent misleading because you could tell by character interactions or rather lack thereof that he wasn't real.
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Xarpolis
Life's a Dream
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I said the exact same thing about a movie I saw recently, and everyone jumped on me for that explanation. I really dislike the entire reason something is happening to be a complete side effect of absolutely nothing. You watch something with all of the clues pointing to "a", then at the very last second they say it's "b" because reasons.
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Ridas
Pay to play forum
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Wow, so many wild theories. Your shitty theories need to be supported by the material. If they turn this into some giant fuckery with timelines I will be dissappointed big time. So many holes in it. Would be really bad writing and ruining a great show for no other reason to be "smart" I guess. Keep your shit straight and tell a good story.
Ed Harris and Hopkins acting was top notch. I really love it, when actors keep it subtle and dont wail around in great emotions.
Ed Harris and Hopkins acting was top notch. I really love it, when actors keep it subtle and dont wail around in great emotions.
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At no point was the guy who grabs ahold of Dolores shown to actually work for the park. He could be a host for all we know. Remember, right after William shows up and that guy leaves, Dolores sees the little girl drawing the maze symbol on the ground, then when she looks back up, the girl has vanished completely. She's been to that town before, which means she's been off of her loop before. Like I said, it doesn't necessarily mean that William is the Man in Black, but it's clearly obvious that she is remembering shit that she has seen before, so this can't be her first time off of her loop. The fact that the park has been open for 30 years, and she's one of the very first hosts, means that she could have awakened a dozen times a year, every year for as long as the park's been open.
Also, the head of programming for HBO has already commented that he's impressed with how close a lot of the fan's theories are to what actually happens, so it's obvious that the people with their "wild theories" are closer to what's actually occurring than people who are the "Me think only like caveman" group.
“There are a lot of theories out there, and with some of them, I’ve been very impressed with how they’ve constructed the guesses. I’ll just say, they’re getting close…. I think people will get the answers they’re looking for by the end of season 1. A lot of the ones that people are buzzing about, I think you will get — I don’t know if ‘answers’ is the right word, but maybe it’s ‘satisfaction.’ You’ll see how Ford and the Man in Black play out by the end, story-wise.”
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Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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heres a thought. What if we are missing the target. MiB=William is poetic.. but... what if MiB is Logan. Personality's already match. Logan has been coming to the park longer, and thus MAY have cut open an older version of the robits. Maybe its William that dies with Dolores in tow.
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