Westworld

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Teekey

Teekey

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Gravel said:
This. And I'm not sure why everyone hates the Maeve conclusion so much. The journey there, perhaps, as it was kind of a mess. But her consciousness (through a hard decision) was a good story.
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I don't mind the conclusion. The problem is, it feels like the knew where they wanted her to be, but didn't pay enough attention to how to get her there.

And so, they established this world with certain capabilities and rules...and then just conveniently ignored a lot of them to help her story along.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Lithose said:
All hosts, programmed to appear human (Remember they specifically say they have the ability to do this). Why? Because a back story and corner stone memory is important to make the hosts believable and build their personality. This entire thing was the corner stone memory for a park built off of the future world war. Ford? He was a host, too. Think about it, if there are multiple parks, how much sense does it make for the real Ford to be working in West World? Makes more sense if each park has a Ford-bot. Future world's Ford-bot is part of the back story.

As for consciousness. I should walk that back, hosts are conscious, but that was needed to make future world work. Its why conscious hosts from all parks are pulled into this one, to give the humans the best experience with hosts that ARE alive and don't have the little tell tale signs of being on rails their discerning, long time customers can see (MIB is a beta tester.) Future world is the ultimate park, one you need to sign a release for...for discerning veterans of their other parks that have become bored with 'safe' game play.
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Nahh i dont buy it. Ford could of been a host, but if this was the first world, AKA west world, and the others followed it, why would Ford not be there, in the main hub? You saw the samurai yourself in Westoworld Hub, right? So this leads me to believe that westoworld IS the entire hub and therefore Ford works there.

I think Ford and his dead partner are like a good vs evil thing going on. Ford was the kind of evil while his partner was good. Ford realized that his partner was right all along, the hosts were becoming awakened, more and more thtrough the years. His partner wanted to shut it all down, while Ford did not believe it at the time and wanted it to continue. Then toward the end the board wanting to take it all away from him, MIB buying the entire thing, people inside wanting to steal the code, it was the last Fuck You to the world, go out with a bang. Help make the changes to the elder hosts so they are aware and awakened, and burn the world down. If he cant have it no one will type of thing.

This entire story is AI gaining consciousness and trying to gain their freedom VS oppresive and destructive humans. Not trying to make a better hardcore server.

Also the entire end scene with Deloris killing everyone, sure those could of all been hosts, but why? why have a reveal of a "new narrative" to a bunch of hosts? And then when Deloris finally wakes up and knows WTF is up, she starts killing other hosts? Nahh, not buying that shit.
 
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Lenas

Lenas

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etchazz said:
Eh, still not buying the MIB now hates Dolores thing. When you really fall in love with someone, that shit never goes away.
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You think he could fall in love with a robot over a weekend VR trip but can't fall out of love with that same robot over 30 years when he sees her repeating the same shit over and over? Come on man. He doesn't hate Dolores, he feels nothing toward her. He has accepted what she is.
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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Gravel

Gravel

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mkopec said:
Nahh i dont buy it. Ford could of been a host, but if this was the first world, AKA west world, and the others followed it, why would Ford not be there, in the main hub? You saw the samurai yourself in Westoworld Hub, right? So this leads me to believe that westoworld IS the entire hub and therefore Ford works there.

I think Ford and his dead partner are like a good vs evil thing going on. Ford was the kind of evil while his partner was good. Ford realized that his partner was right all along, the hosts were becoming awakened, more and more thtrough the years. His partner wanted to shut it all down, while Ford did not believe it at the time and wanted it to continue. Then toward the end the board wanting to take it all away from him, MIB buying the entire thing, people inside wanting to steal the code, it was the last Fuck You to the world, go out with a bang. Help make the changes to the elder hosts so they are aware and awakened, and burn the world down. If he cant have it no one will type of thing.

This entire story is AI gaining consciousness and trying to gain their freedom VS oppresive and destructive humans. Not trying to make a better hardcore server.

Also the entire end scene with Deloris killing everyone, sure those could of all been hosts, but why? why have a reveal of a "new narrative" to a bunch of hosts? And then when Deloris finally wakes up and knows WTF is up, she starts killing other hosts? Nahh, not buying that shit.
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I don't know if I necessarily disagree with you, but as long as the hosts believe they're all humans (the board, guests, etc), does it matter whether they are or not? Does Dolores "awakening" by killing Ford mean less if it later turns out he was actually a host?
 
Lithose

Lithose

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Gravel said:
I don't know if I necessarily disagree with you, but as long as the hosts believe they're all humans (the board, guests, etc), does it matter whether they are or not? Does Dolores "awakening" by killing Ford mean less if it later turns out he was actually a host?
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This. In the end, Ford said many, many times--there is nothing special about human consciousness. It's not some golden city on a hill. If she kills a human or a host it doesn't matter. There was no one there to reveal the narrative to except MIB--if they could impress MIB, the hardcore server would work. But everyone there was food for the hosts corner stone. Just like Bernards kid was his corner stone and back story.
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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Namon said:
Ford's renaissance also seemed cheap. They pounded us over the head how he was adamant that these were just advanced animatronics who had limited ability to improvise for story line deviations brought on by guests. He insisted on talking to them while naked in QA. He reminded people all the time that they were not real. How he handled Bernard's constant loops, and tried to end it with his forced suicide. Now all of a sudden, Ford goes all Vizzini from Princess Bride, and goes "I knew this and felt this way all along, see??!?" I know 35 years is a long time, and it is logical the man would have a change in heart, but their over insistence on using smoke and mirrors, again just really muddied up the result.
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He wanted to have the humans remve all their emapthy for the hosts, therefore making them suffer more at their hands, anything to dehuminize them so they continue their suffrage.

Another thing, throughout the show ford says shit to the hosts against the humans all the time, shit like "I am not your friend" Or "You will come to see me as a monster" kind of grooming them and teaching them that humans are the enemy. I think he loved them as his children, and through the years realized that all people wanted to do is use them as fuck dolls and shooting ranges, not exploring them to their depths.

The love for them was why he had his own little corner of the westworld, where he could spend time with his little family of creations, also strike up conversations with that old timer dude in the cold storage. He truly loved them. and he knew that in order to have them awaken, they needed to suffer.
 
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Soygen

Soygen

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Warflagon said:
Another quality post about nothing that has to do with the subject at hand.


But i like you. You at least know a few more words than retard, stupid and poop......
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Mizake

Mizake

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etchazz said:
Eh, still not buying the MIB now hates Dolores thing. When you really fall in love with someone, that shit never goes away. You may tell other people you hate your ex and hope she gets hit by a bus, or dies from some horrible disease, but that only proves how much you still care about them. I just think if there was a little bit of compassion left for Dolores, it would have given his character that much more depth, and could've lead to some kind of redemption, kinda like what happened with Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars. I'm just not buying that after a few days in a park killing robots, that William's personality is completely altered. We know that he is a philanthropist outside of the park, and that he only took on the MIB persona a year ago, so the whole transformation of his personality just seems very inconsistent, but that's just me.
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Hmm.....maybe you've never had your heart broken. To each their own I guess. I totally understood his feelings. I remember in high school I was totally infatuated with this girl, felt like she was into me, turns out I was "friend-zoned", she ended up dating someone who I couldn't even fathom she would like, a total jerk. Years later, I come back to visit my friends and family from college. I end up running into her at a party. She is totally into me, says how much she misses me, how we should have dated in high school; fairly obvious she wants to hook up. She's still as attractive as ever, probably even more so, but I still have zero emotions for her, she has become persona non grata to me. I tell her high school was high school, but high school is long past. I had zero feelings of attractiveness to her, just mainly disgust. So maybe it's just me, but I can totally understand how William becomes completely emotionless towards Delores, especially after seeing how her "feelings" for him were just fake after seeing the other guy in town picking up the can and how she didn't even recognize William.
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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Etchazz should talk to any divorced couple that all started with love and infatuation and ended with some truly seething hatred on both sides.
 
Gravel

Gravel

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mkopec said:
Another thing, throughout the show ford says shit to the hosts against the humans all the time, shit like "I am not your friend" Or "You will come to see me as a monster" kind of grooming them and teaching them that humans are the enemy. I think he loved them as his children, and through the years realized that all people wanted to do is use them as fuck dolls and shooting ranges, not exploring them to their depths.

this is why he had his own little corner of the westworld, where he could spend time with his little family of creations, also strike up conversations with that old timer dude in the cold storage. He truly loved them.
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I think Arnold got close to consciousness, but what he was missing was that little thing to push them over the edge. He was too friendly with the hosts, hoping to give them a pain free life.

Ford was able to succeed by realizing that suffering was necessary. Or at the very least, not having an idyllic "life."
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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Teekey said:
I still can't reconcile Maeve's storyline at all. The only argument I can make is that Ford was pushing her through the maze up until she made her own decision? I still don't understand why he would leave one of the most important aspects of the Host revolution (turning off all security measures) to Maeve's Rube Goldberg Machine-like plan which required multiple humans to be complicit, and the overlooking/incompetence of tons of security staff. In the world they've created and presented, how she got as far as she did still makes little sense, even with Ford pulling a lot of the strings.

It really just feels like she was a red herring for the audience, more than it was an actual logical story.
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It could of been a sort of diversion so he could sneak all those hosts in cold storage out, and therefore unknowingly (or knowingly) taking away that download the corp wanted to sneak out of the park since most security teams were tied up with her escape.

Also not sure if this matters, but notice how she left her purse on the train? I wonder if this will come up later (data being snuck out)
 
TrollfaceDeux

TrollfaceDeux

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Mizake said:
Hmm.....maybe you've never had your heart broken. To each their own I guess. I totally understood his feelings. I remember in high school I was totally infatuated with this girl, felt like she was into me, turns out I was "friend-zoned", she ended up dating someone who I couldn't even fathom she would like, a total jerk. Years later, I come back to visit my friends and family from college. I end up running into her at a party. She is totally into me, says how much she misses me, how we should have dated in high school; fairly obvious she wants to hook up. She's still as attractive as ever, probably even more so, but I still have zero emotions for her, she has become persona non grata to me. I tell her high school was high school, but high school is long past. I had zero feelings of attractiveness to her, just mainly disgust. So maybe it's just me, but I can totally understand how William becomes completely emotionless towards Delores, especially after seeing how her "feelings" for him were just fake after seeing the other guy in town picking up the can and how she didn't even recognize William.
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William still loves Dolores. I believe that to be true. William desires to love Dolores is better way to describe it.
He wants the love to be real. Not just some programing language that invoked predestined responses. William desires above all else raw and true emotion from the Westworld. That is why he would go so far as to risk his own life. He wanted it to have a stake.

William wants to keep that love going. He wanted the truth out if Dolores. That is why he pushed it so much.

He wanted Dolores to be free more than anything else. All of his visit to Westworld, his path led to dolores. William and Dolores had a genuine and consistent connection.

Francis was also another character whose path also crossed William.

We would like to think that Dolores is the main protagonist and show made a great deal if emphasis on Dolores's path to conscience when in fact the story is about William and his path.

We keep hearing that the maze isn't meant for him.

Why. The robot side of Dolores looks down upon William because he is just a flesh that will rot away. But dolores really think of him that way? Is this real? Dolores was never free until the end. Or was she? Is that the reason why she didn't kill William or was it the robot programming?


What does she feel about William now that she is technically free?

This show is a fucking koobuki shit
 
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Drinsic

Drinsic

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Warflagon said:
Another quality post about nothing that has to do with the subject at hand.


But i like you. You at least know a few more words than retard, stupid and poop......
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Better keep complaining about posts unrelated to the current discussion by making more posts unrelated to the the current discussion.
 
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Caliane

Caliane

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Mostly just confirmed things we already knew.

maeve story is frustrating as noted.
Everyone else is just so utter incompetent, its infuriating. Old west robots pick up and use submachine guns with ease. ok...
Security all around incompetent. how long has Thor 2 been missing? no one cares. Robots go rogue. murder. no one cares, or notices. Until, "go to live feed". The show goes back and forth too much on how much godlike surveillance they have. you can't have them monitoring the park to every little detail like the "ok the pyrotechnics" then pretend this shit can go unnoticed.
That they HAVE guards that well armed, shows they have the need for them. and they would be trained, as well has total monitoring.
Some of it can be explained by Ford hacking the system. Shutting down monitoring etc. But, that just asked why Ford has such godlike control over the entire park, including security like that...

Fords heelturn is not very satisfying. I don't feel they argued or explained his machivellian maneuvering, after 35 years of playing god and slaves, to decide, no I want you to have free will now, despite many of my very actions in the last 3 weeks directly countering that. like wiping Bernards memory, and making Bernard shoot himself in the head. Was that all part of his plan? make bernard to get Clementine involved. have bernard shoot himself, then send Maeve down after Clementine, to find Bernard and repair him? really?
Ford burning everything to the ground, does make some sense at least.
 
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