What do you do?

Rombo_sl said:

Wait, you went out of highschool to design chemical plants and refineries?
I dont wanna call bullshit but i did plenty of CAD design in my days and theres not a shit chance in hell that some big company would hire a dude who studied CAD in his free time to design multi million dollar complex. Either you fucked the daughter of Exxons cio on a regular basis or they really are riding the shortbus to unicorn land. You're hiding something brah.

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Structural steel design for fabricators (that includes plate work). Started in high school actually since since my dad did it. He drew it and I checked it since every drawing had to be checked. The fabricator I did most of my work for is owned by an engineer and he would stamp anything that needed to be stamped. Very little needed to be stamped. The replacement maintenance stuff as well as most of the actual new steel and plate goes thru Jacobs.

I actually learned AutoCad from a book and playing around with it. The trade was I taught my dad autocad and he taught me the business, he was still drawing on the board in the mid to late 80's. Nobody in my small circle models anything in 3d because of the limited time frame we work on. This is the problem I am running into now, I get lots of modelers but I need someone who can draw on a sketch pad if necessary on the job site and know more than the design.I want someone who knows it from top down and that includes the fabrication end, purchasing, coatings, erection etc....I could hire someone from the jobsite out there who works in a trailer who makes $60k a year all day long.

This was done in the spring before I got sick, it didn't require a stamp. I'm not designing the actual process. That's what process engineers do. I don't work for Exxon. I work for a company that has a contract with Exxon and that includes the Exxon complex in BR which is the refinery, chem plant, packacing plant across the river, and the plastics plant north of town. I'm not allowed to take pics inside most of the plants which is why nowdays we carry a flip phone unless we get a permit.

I'm not saying I could hire someone out of high school. I need someone now with 20 years of experience but they weren't willing to get on the gravy train out of high school. When Exxon says they need it now they need it now and pay incredibly well for it. Too late now. I have friends now that I tried to get into it who really want into now that they see what I make. I live a very low key life and for a good portion of that lived out of state since I could work at home. Suddenly when I decided to go to work for the company instead of contract in the spring and the company provided me with a house while I house shopped suddenly my scale became more known to my friends and now my door is knocking lol.

To give you an idea of the money in this low field comes from. I had to design some pipe hangers in a furnace earlier this year. The ones we were replacing were cast and you can't get anything cast on short notice so we had to design and have them fabricated from 7/8" plate steel. The alloy they wanted to use (from the engineer) could only be sourced from one place in the western hemisphere from what I could find. That was in Michigan. At first I tried to get a semi with 3 drivers would could share time to get it here in 2 days give or take. That wasn't fast enough so I hired a shop in Michigan to pick up the plate and cut it into small enough sections to load on a chartered plane and we flew it into Baton Rouge that afternoon. The delivery charge was just under $400k for just the plate. That didn't include any design or fabrication etc....It pays VERY well. Lots of downtime which is always a bonus as well. You work very hard for a few weeks each spring during turnaround and a few in the fall. There's always something when they open a furnace or whatever that needs design and fabrication on very short notice. I was able to go to college 4 years out of high school and still keep a mostly normal work schedule on the side and pay for it. I have a degree that has nothing to do with the work I do and it's not required. The other guy I work with was a fitter before he fell thru a skylight and broke his back 20ish years ago.

It's VERY LOW TECH. But it's needed NOW and I mean right now. That's where the premium comes from.

It's shit like this that pisses me off. All through high school they told (and still tell) everyone that you've got to go to some crazy expensive college and get a 4-year degree. They fail to mention that 90% of the degrees will be a waste of time and you'll end up jobless, in a job you hate, or buried in debt. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again: I wish my high school guidance counselors had pushed me towards the trades. I see how all the plumbers, electricians, and carpenters in my family are doing now after 15+ years of working right out of high school and they're making more money, have less debt, and work fewer hours than most of us college educated folk.

Hell, even if some tradesman had come along and told high-school me that I could make a great living doing suchandsuch trade, I'd probably have laughed at them because they brainwash you so much in high school about how college degrees are so vitally important.

I just wanted to add after the long ramble. The hardest part I have found trying to find a replacement is attracting anyone with some sense that's not dead set on going to college. In this town if you want to work you can get a plant job and make good money if you are willing to get hot, grimy etc...But I find it hard to find people that can see down the road. Their friend out of high school 2 years is buying a new truck on credit but can't see that in 5 years they will make a bonus to buy a new one and pay cash with it.

95% of my job is sitting at a computer like most other people. It's the other 5% that turns everyone off. It's not bad and I kind of like getting out of the house/office for a change ocassionally.

I had a few friends 20ish years ago who said they wouldn't go to the job site once a month or whatever if there was a chance they might get dirty, rained on or whatever. They couldn't look at the people doing the job they were hired for down the road and see how well they had it.

McCheese_sl said:

It's shit like this that pisses me off. All through high school they told (and still tell) everyone that you've got to go to some crazy expensive college and get a 4-year degree. They fail to mention that 90% of the degrees will be a waste of time and you'll end up jobless, in a job you hate, or buried in debt. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again: I wish my high school guidance counselors had pushed me towards the trades. I see how all the plumbers, electricians, and carpenters in my family are doing now after 15+ years of working right out of high school and they're making more money, have less debt, and work fewer hours than most of us college educated folk.

Hell, even if some tradesman had come along and told high-school me that I could make a great living doing suchandsuch trade, I'd probably have laughed at them because they brainwash you so much in high school about how college degrees are so vitally important.

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It depends on the area but I know I make more than a good many engineers. The company I work for now the owner is midas. He basically put the maintenance shop that was inside Exxon (talk about a nice fab shop job, it was air conditioned lol) out of business. He waited till the last guy retired who was my scoutmaster and he was a boilermaker and made well into 6 figures. Everyone I know that wasn't my age does the same kind of work or is related to this business.


There also may be some confusion. I'm a designer, not an egineer. Most engineers draw very little. It's drawn by a designer and he either checks it or tells him what he wants and then stamps it if needed.But I've been doing this long enough I now when they need a pipe support to hold a 20" pipe X feet long across a Y span I can do those calcs in and draw it up AND do the shop drawings for it so it can be fabriacted at the same time without an engineer etc...My added bonus to the job is I know it from the engineer down to the guy who will actually purchase the materials, build it, ship it, galvanize it, and erect it and I make sure it's all right and gets done.

It was everywhere here tho, the plants run the economy here. I went to a magnet high school for engineering and we were just starting to fiddle with AutoCad but nobody knew anything about it. But we had classes that the work I do now was discussed.

The funny part is there are LOTS of stuff that need replacing at the BR refinery, LOTS. It was built in the early 1900's and of course lots of it gets replaced on a regular schedule as stuff just doens't last there. But I went to a turnaround about 20 years ago and they pulled out a valve that was no longer in service and was partially buried and it had a swastika cast in it.

It's not a galarous job which has been a big turnoff for college kids we have hired thru the years who eventually move on to something they can brag about or wear a suit to work everyday.

Yeah I rambled again. That's what happens when you have been home off of work for 4 months and not going back till after the first of the year and everyone you know is working.

Jx3_sl said:

Passed my certification test. Now all I need to do is finish coasting through student teaching and I'll graduate in December. Feels good man.

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If you're looking for something for next year, let me know if you're interested in working at an international school in Mexico City. I'll let you know what positions are open, and pass your resume along to our principals. Our letters of intent just got sent out, so people have to decide by next month if they are recontracting for next year or not. Most of the hiring gets done between December and February, with last minute hiring happening through June.

McCheese_sl said:

It's shit like this that pisses me off. All through high school they told (and still tell) everyone that you've got to go to some crazy expensive college and get a 4-year degree. They fail to mention that 90% of the degrees will be a waste of time and you'll end up jobless, in a job you hate, or buried in debt. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again: I wish my high school guidance counselors had pushed me towards the trades. I see how all the plumbers, electricians, and carpenters in my family are doing now after 15+ years of working right out of high school and they're making more money, have less debt, and work fewer hours than most of us college educated folk.

Hell, even if some tradesman had come along and told high-school me that I could make a great living doing suchandsuch trade, I'd probably have laughed at them because they brainwash you so much in high school about how college degrees are so vitally important.

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Exactly this. I was considered smart(was put in gifted classes in school), and I LOVE to work, but I hate school. I still pushed on to a 4-year university and absolutely hated it. Basically wasted my parents money and dropped out after 2.5 years to work full-time at a job I loved instead of going back to school. I would have been a prime candidate for someone to have sat me down at some point in my teenage years and tell me "hey, why don't you apply your work ethic and intelligence to getting a foothold in a trade if you really dislike school that much".

I thought I was avoiding the classic pitfall of a wasted education by not studying what I was interested in, because there were very few careers/high paying jobs related to that(history/english) but what I thought I should study in order to get the best job (computer engineering) and I despised every second of every class I had in college, just zero interest, I was bored to tears and the thoughts of doing that for a living for the next 40+ years made me want to eat a bullet.

University educations aren't for everyone. I could have easily got a history degree, enjoyed my 4 years, and then done absolutely nothing useful with it after college, the only thing that would have accomplished is wasting another year or two of my parents tuition money.

The only person I work with on a regular basis that has a degree is the owner of the company I work for and his son. Both are engineers that we need for the stamp. I have a degree but it's in no way related to my field. In fact I have a GED and could have done what I wound up doing with said GED.

Lots of well paying jobs in my industry/field for people with no degree but it's not gamarous. All the way up to general managers of a business to project managers of some really big projects. I was offered the project managent posistion on two projects in the last few years. One was an experimental clean coal plant that was already $600 million over budget. I turned that one down just because I didn't want it on my resume lol. The other was the VA/ Univsersity medical center complex in New Orleans and I turned that one down just because I didn't want to drive into New Orleans each day. Lots of guys with some real life experience and high school degrees. They don't all have to be "trade" like jobs you normally think of as labor intensive.

I'd like to do city management; I have a degree in hospitality and tourism management
I'm currently a shift leader at an Arby's attached to a gas station

I'm just going to jump in and echo McCheese and some other's thoughts. This whole "no child left behind" thing and parents acting as if trade school is beneath their child is ridiculous. Way too many kids are going to college and graduating with crippling debt they have no chance of repaying. Meanwhile every time I have to call a plumber it ends up costing me like $300 for an hour's worth of work.

My wife's family are all in the trades - most HVAC and the like. They make good money (the dad is over $100k, the sons around $60k). They're the type of people that if they went to college they would've had trouble and maybe settled for a terrible degree or failed out entirely and been in debt. They're not stupid, but they aren't the classroom type. I think they chose great careers that will never go away and pay well. The downside is the toll on the body. If my kid grew up and that's what they wanted to do - then I'd support them 100%. Let's get you in a trade highschool and on the right path early.

On the other hand, my wife and I did well in college and got degrees. While hers was mostly a waste, mine was great and I'm starting out making more than most people will make for most of their lives. If my kid wanted to go into engineering, or be a doctor, dentist, teacher - I'd support that too.

In the end I'll support whatever they do, but I don't want them to fall into the trap that college is the only way. If everyone went to college we wouldn't have garbage men.

Khane_sl said:

Meanwhile every time I have to call a plumber it ends up costing me like $300 for an hour's worth of work.

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And probably 20-30% of that actually goes in to the plumber's pocket, depending on the company he works for. The rest goes to pay for overhead, insurance, vehicle maintenance/depreciation/gas, tools, etc etc. Not to mention that while he only did an hour's worth of work at your particular house, it probably took him 30 minutes each way to get there, depending on where you live. Maybe more. We don't do service because it's just not our focus, but the little bit we do we charge our guy out at $120/hour (his wage is close to $50, including vacation/stat holiday pay), and we don't make a single cent on him. It's strictly favors for people we know and can't avoid.

I would imagine in most places in the US, plumbers aren't making much more than $20-30 an hour in actual wages, if they're working for someone else. That's still decent money, but it's not exactly boy band dollars.

Similarly, in dealing with an ugly employment issue, we had a partner at our law firm advising us. He charged I believe $550/hour. I would imagine that similarly, he's not seeing much more than a third of that in terms of his actual salary, if that.

I resigned today without having a sure thing lined up. Totally deranged and ignorant but it felt so good i couldn't resist

Eomer_sl said:

And probably 20-30% of that actually goes in to the plumber's pocket, depending on the company he works for. The rest goes to pay for overhead, insurance, vehicle maintenance/depreciation/gas, tools, etc etc. Not to mention that while he only did an hour's worth of work at your particular house, it probably took him 30 minutes each way to get there, depending on where you live. Maybe more. We don't do service because it's just not our focus, but the little bit we do we charge our guy out at $120/hour (his wage is close to $50, including vacation/stat holiday pay), and we don't make a single cent on him. It's strictly favors for people we know and can't avoid.

I would imagine in most places in the US, plumbers aren't making much more than $20-30 an hour in actual wages, if they're working for someone else. That's still decent money, but it's not exactly boy band dollars.

Similarly, in dealing with an ugly employment issue, we had a partner at our law firm advising us. He charged I believe $550/hour. I would imagine that similarly, he's not seeing much more than a third of that in terms of his actual salary, if that.

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Yeah but that's true for most jobs. For what I was Doing before this they were charging $150/hr but I make roughly 1/4 of that

Noodleface_sl said:

Yeah but that's true for most jobs. For what I was Doing before this they were charging $150/hr but I make roughly 1/4 of that

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Yup, agreed. I just go a little cross eyed when I see people bitch about how much a plumber or electrician costs and ignore the fact that the hour of work done probably actually takes double that when you include travel time, or use the charge-out rates of companies as a data point in a conversation about individual earnings. Trades can pay well depending on the specific trade, where you live, and what industry you're in. No question. But it can take 5-10 years to get to the point where you're making a decent wage, and unless you go in to business yourself or are willing to work in bumfuck nowhere working several weeks straight on a shift, you can top out very early in your career wage wise as compared to white collar jobs.

Then again, the fucked up American post secondary education system (it costs HOW MUCH to go to a run of the mill state college, let alone a prestigious one?) really does screw with the numbers as well.

Picasso_sl said:

I resigned today without having a sure thing lined up. Totally deranged and ignorant but it felt so good i couldn't resist

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My wife did the same 3 weeks ago. Hater her boss so badly she just put in her notice and quit. She's still putting in resumes all over the place, hope to god she finds something soon. I really don't want to go more than 3-4 months on 1 salary, things will start to get a little tight at that point. She was 55-60% of our income, and our health insurance benefits. Yikes.

Mines only a girlfriend but she makes twice as much as me so I'm hoping she doesn't leave me and i hardly notice.

And if it doesn't work out i can always count on FOH to crowd fund me.