Where are all the MMORPG games? lol

Where are all the MMORPGs, A+++ titles?

  • Well, the lizard gods have decided since about 2004 they don't want us playing video games

    Votes: 16 25.8%

  • This is a simulation and the simulation lacks in fun

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Enter bullshit here about how A+++ titles cost a lot or some random shit that isn't believable

    Votes: 16 25.8%

  • There are plenty of A+++ MMORPGS! Look at all 8 of them.

    Votes: 5 8.1%

  • Other... but really a combination of A and B

    Votes: 22 35.5%
  • Total voters
    62
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Nightmare said:
We got the best games when the devs made games they wanted to play. Now it's all major corps making them to reinvent the World of Warcraft cash cow. I think the core problem is the "leveling" of player skill. For example, in EQ1 the difference between a skilled enchanter and non-skilled enchanter may be being able to complete the content or not. Then, when you add PvP into the mix it gets way worse. The top 10% of players then take a giant shit on everyone's heads. In World of Warcraft the game was designed in a way to attempt to negate a large amount of player skill so all the "average" players wouldn't be discouraged from playing.

You see this trend throughout the entire industry. Developers "leveling" the playing field to get as many people playing as possible. I think what developers have missed on is the "if you build it, they will come" gamers of yesteryear that came up with EQ, AO, DAoC, RS, etc.

Just look at what happens when someone manages to make something that's "ok". People flock to it.

I think the next big thing will be other games that are created off the Cloud Imperium Games tech, not necessarily Star Citizen itself, but games that use the true 64-bit float positioning, real server meshing, object container streaming, and entity authority with replication layer streaming. Not saying they "invented" these things but bringing them all into the same engine is a pretty big deal.
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The big problem is that not enough people care to make 'true' modern MMOs viable. There are a lot of reasons why and causes of the general decline of the industry, but the reality is the only way we will ever see another game at the scale of WoW in the future and with that specific type of fantasy RPG gameplay is leveraging AI tools.

However, I think the reality is 90% of what makes MMOs 'good' can be accomplished with a competently engineered 'live service' game that uses the right facades to hide the lobby elements and seamlessly integrate them into the world. I look back at something like exploring BRD which was the pinnacle (and generally last) of the sprawling megadungeons which really just acted as an instanced zone and think that you could make that type of experience a a template for an entire game and it would be fine.
 
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Cybsled

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Nightmare said:
We got the best games when the devs made games they wanted to play. Now it's all major corps making them to reinvent the World of Warcraft cash cow. I think the core problem is the "leveling" of player skill. For example, in EQ1 the difference between a skilled enchanter and non-skilled enchanter may be being able to complete the content or not. Then, when you add PvP into the mix it gets way worse. The top 10% of players then take a giant shit on everyone's heads. In World of Warcraft the game was designed in a way to attempt to negate a large amount of player skill so all the "average" players wouldn't be discouraged from playing
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If we are being honest about skill, EQ1 required very little at the individual level unless you were trying to split mobs during pulls or juggle staggered CC while doing other stuff. Most of the gameplay was pretty brain dead and heavily loot dependent in terms of ability to succeed
 
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Cybsled said:
If we are being honest about skill, EQ1 required very little at the individual level unless you were trying to split mobs during pulls or juggle staggered CC while doing other stuff. Most of the gameplay was pretty brain dead and heavily loot dependent in terms of ability to succeed
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Also - high skill floor is stupid. Everyone loved WoW because it was easy, the challenge was not in the mechanics but the commitment. There's no need to make a game like WoW Mythic or M+ at high keys, etc. It's all just wasted effort.
 
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Ukerric

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Discovergy said:
Feels like there aren’t many new MMORPGs coming out anymore. Most people are still playing old favorites like WoW and Everquest.
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There are.

Pity 99% of them are mobile/PC ports of asian grind/P2W fests that die within 2 years.
 
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BoozeCube

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Is Riot ever gonna release their bullshit? As sad as it is to say Ghostcrawler was way better than that faggot Ion god that cunt should of been fired ages ago.
 
Cybsled

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Riot MMO is going to be the new Project Titan - languishes in dev hell, never gets made, assets get used for something else
 
D

Droigan

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Nightmare said:
We got the best games when the devs made games they wanted to play. Now it's all major corps making them to reinvent the World of Warcraft cash cow. I think the core problem is the "leveling" of player skill. For example, in EQ1 the difference between a skilled enchanter and non-skilled enchanter may be being able to complete the content or not. Then, when you add PvP into the mix it gets way worse. The top 10% of players then take a giant shit on everyone's heads. In World of Warcraft the game was designed in a way to attempt to negate a large amount of player skill so all the "average" players wouldn't be discouraged from playing.
Click to expand...

Cybsled said:
If we are being honest about skill, EQ1 required very little at the individual level unless you were trying to split mobs during pulls or juggle staggered CC while doing other stuff. Most of the gameplay was pretty brain dead and heavily loot dependent in terms of ability to succeed
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The thing that makes this worse is that both statements are true. "Mechanics" these days seem to be "dodge the color on the floor", not nessicarily learn the class. Learning a class is more of adding DPS, not being able to "do more" so to speak, which it was in EQ.

A large problem is that people play class A, then see someone else on class B do something they can't do, bitch about it, then either class A gets nerfed or class B is changed to do what A can. So especially if it is a class that has any sort of skill ceiling where the top 10% can do something extra, then that often gets nerfed.

Over time it's caused lots of MMOs to have classes where it's basically just a mishmash of doing the same, but with different button icons and spell effects.

I had a long break of FF14 way back, but liked the summoner, when I came back, the class was no longer a summoner. Pets were just spell effects. I still remember being able to solo things most couldn't with pet chaining and such. Hated that change so much.

Mage in EQ was changed due to "most" not being able to learn pet control (as Kibartik was basically the first Leroy Jenkins). I remember falling into the trap in that forest zone where you have a door that is locked that you need a key for which is the backdoor exit of a dungeon? Forgot the name of it, lots of goblins in there. Pet wasn't there, and said it was too far away to command anything with it. Was trying to jump my way out, and was sitting down having just added the gate spell back to the hot bar when the pet opened the door (apparently a locksmith) with most of the mobs of the dungeon aggroed right behind it. Scared the shit out of me and died promptly in the pit.
 
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Ukerric

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Droigan said:
A large problem is that people play class A, then see someone else on class B do something they can't do, bitch about it, then either class A gets nerfed or class B is changed to do what A can. So especially if it is a class that has any sort of skill ceiling where the top 10% can do something extra, then that often gets nerfed.
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That is mostly because you're expected to be able to solo everything, except group-designed dungeons and raids (and some modern MMOs have dungeons that can be tackled solo as soon as you overlevel them just a little bit).

If you need to be able to solo everything, you need to have a bit of everything to deal with it (or the content needs to be easy, or both).
 
Grizzlebeard

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I miss the game EQ less than I miss the social aspect of it. The group chat, the server drama, players having a rep they generally cared about because if you were shit in a game where grouping was a necessity then you were pretty much boned.

After I quit EQ and went to FFXI I spent a good couple of years lamenting the differences between it and EQ but to be honest it refined what made EQ awesome. You had enforced grouping still but when you were decently equipped and max level you could solo some fairly hefty named mobs and score decent drops, albeit with punishing drop rates. And it was beautiful with an amazing soundtrack.

Since then the MMOs have just lessened in challenge till we get to the point we're at with FFXIV. The differences in the various trinity roles are so negligible and the open world is dead. Well, most chat except LS and city spam is dead to be fair.
 
Aamry

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I just don't have the time anymore. A home to maintain, a teenage son to keep entertained and fed. When I do play games, it's ones I can drop in and drop out without issues. Me and the kid are playing modded Terraria and Forza Horizon 5. He's not interested in the long play slower RPGs.
 
Pharone

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Aamry said:
I just don't have the time anymore. A home to maintain, a teenage son to keep entertained and fed. When I do play games, it's ones I can drop in and drop out without issues. Me and the kid are playing modded Terraria and Forza Horizon 5. He's not interested in the long play slower RPGs.
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Lord of the Rings Online is perfect for "drop in and drop out with out issues" and actually accomplish stuff. I'm honestly surprised more people haven't added Lotro as their long term "other" game they play because it is so solo-friendly, story-based, and allows you to make actual achievements in either short or long sessions (up to you).
 
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Animosity

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Pharone said:
Lord of the Rings Online is perfect for "drop in and drop out with out issues" and actually accomplish stuff. I'm honestly surprised more people haven't added Lotro as their long term "other" game they play because it is so solo-friendly, story-based, and allows you to make actual achievements in either short or long sessions (up to you).
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Agree LOTRO is a lot of fun and doesnt really require anyone else. GW2 is also very hop in and out friendly.
 
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Vinjin

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The last time I played LOTRO was so long ago that I think the game was still relatively new at that time. I don’t really remember why I stopped but I have thought about trying it out again recently.

My biggest concerns are how does it hold up to today’s standards in graphics and gameplay? And what’s the payment model now?
 
Animosity

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Vinjin said:
The last time I played LOTRO was so long ago that I think the game was still relatively new at that time. I don’t really remember why I stopped but I have thought about trying it out again recently.

My biggest concerns are how does it hold up to today’s standards in graphics and gameplay? And what’s the payment model now?
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It still looks really good surprisingly. It is F2P, subbing just gives you some extra perks like with EQ.
 
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Vinjin

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Animosity said:
It still looks really good surprisingly. It is F2P, subbing just gives you some extra perks like with EQ.
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So I downloaded it and tried logging in with an old account that didn't work. I guess it was blitzed long ago which is fine. The problem is it won't let me create a new account because no matter what email address I put in at the account creation page, it says it's already in use. Is the only way around that to contact support?
 
Pharone

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Vinjin said:
So I downloaded it and tried logging in with an old account that didn't work. I guess it was blitzed long ago which is fine. The problem is it won't let me create a new account because no matter what email address I put in at the account creation page, it says it's already in use. Is the only way around that to contact support?
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Possibly. I'd do that or just create a new gmail account to use for it.

Here are some notes based on my experience over the past couple years in Lotro...

The game now has content free to play up to level 95, so technically, you have content to play through for a very long time. It is very story-based, so if you aren't at least skimming the quest dialogue, you are missing a big part of what makes Lotro special. It's not really the kind of game that you race to end game and then start having fun. The journey in Lotro IS the fun.

Your character is going to look like warmed over ass at first. Don't let this get you down. The old low level gear is horrifying bad looking. Why they have never updated the visuals of all this old gear is beyond me. Don't get hung up on how bad it looks. As you get going in levels, you will acquire gear that looks better, and you can piece it all together to make your own look using the wardrobe system.

At around level 48 when you get to the Mines of Moria, the game changes drastically. You will go on a quest to get your Legendary Items (everybody calls it their LIs). These are two items that go in your weapon and class inventory slots. They open up a whole new system to the game that is a major part of Lotro for the rest of the game. It's like an AA system, but it is tied to your legendary items. The traceries you slot in to them, the rank of those traceries, and the level of the tracery slots (you level the slots up) make HUGE differences in how your character plays. Its complex (like most systems in Lotro), and worth watching some YouTube videos on it when you get near the level to get them.

There are HUGE spoilers all through out Lotro. Again, it is a story-based game. If you watch YouTube videos, you ARE going to see spoilers all over the place. It's not a big deal, but just be aware that even though the story follows the books/movies, there are individual story lines happening in the game that you may not be aware even if you have read the books and watched the movies. Big plot twists and shocking things happen all through out the epic quest lines of the game.

If you want to get an idea of what to expect in the game (or watch some spoilers), feel free to go check out my extensive playlists on YouTube at youtube.com/pharone1.
 
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Palum

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Pharone said:
Possibly. I'd do that or just create a new gmail account to use for it.

Here are some notes based on my experience over the past couple years in Lotro...

The game now has content free to play up to level 95, so technically, you have content to play through for a very long time. It is very story-based, so if you aren't at least skimming the quest dialogue, you are missing a big part of what makes Lotro special. It's not really the kind of game that you race to end game and then start having fun. The journey in Lotro IS the fun.

Your character is going to look like warmed over ass at first. Don't let this get you down. The old low level gear is horrifying bad looking. Why they have never updated the visuals of all this old gear is beyond me. Don't get hung up on how bad it looks. As you get going in levels, you will acquire gear that looks better, and you can piece it all together to make your own look using the wardrobe system.

At around level 48 when you get to the Mines of Moria, the game changes drastically. You will go on a quest to get your Legendary Items (everybody calls it their LIs). These are two items that go in your weapon and class inventory slots. They open up a whole new system to the game that is a major part of Lotro for the rest of the game. It's like an AA system, but it is tied to your legendary items. The traceries you slot in to them, the rank of those traceries, and the level of the tracery slots (you level the slots up) make HUGE differences in how your character plays. Its complex (like most systems in Lotro), and worth watching some YouTube videos on it when you get near the level to get them.

There are HUGE spoilers all through out Lotro. Again, it is a story-based game. If you watch YouTube videos, you ARE going to see spoilers all over the place. It's not a big deal, but just be aware that even though the story follows the books/movies, there are individual story lines happening in the game that you may not be aware even if you have read the books and watched the movies. Big plot twists and shocking things happen all through out the epic quest lines of the game.

If you want to get an idea of what to expect in the game (or watch some spoilers), feel free to go check out my extensive playlists on YouTube at youtube.com/pharone1.
Click to expand...
Every time I've tried to get into this game since it launched I've failed. Just something about it. I know everyone says it picks up later on story wise as you get deeper into the main chronology.
 
Pharone

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Palum said:
Every time I've tried to get into this game since it launched I've failed. Just something about it. I know everyone says it picks up later on story wise as you get deeper into the main chronology.
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Its definitely not for everyone. The thing with Lotro is that if you look at it as a level up game and just focus on grabbing quests, completing quests, rinse and repeat, you are going to hate the game. There is nothing special or makes it stand out against any other MMORPG when it comes to the quest grind / level up experience. I got really, really bored with Lotro when I just tried to plow through the content to get to max level faster.

The true enjoyment in Lotro comes from the stories themselves. Not just the epic story lines, but all the side story lines along the way. While there are some quests that are your typical fluff crap that you see in other MMORPGs, the vast majority of the quests are actually written very well and continue further than "collect 10 hooves and go to next NPC".

Even outside of the main-line epic quest lines, you will find that every area you go to has some sort of over arching story line told through the quests in that area. You will find that some of these quests continue on to the next area or pop up later on in another area in later levels. The characters you meet along the way (and there are MANY of them) tend to pop up over and over in various places. It feels like a living breathing world with a real experience that transitions over time.

In other MMOs like WoW, you meet "dumbass the goblin" who needs you to go pick up poop in a cave, and then you never hear from him ever again. The quests almost all feel like fluff filler with throw away NPCs that you couldn't give two shits about other than to click em to get the quest and then click em to turn in the quest. That's vastly different from how Lotro feels.

If you try to play Lotro the same way you would play WoW, you are going to hate it. It's just that simple. Reading the quest dialogue is a HUGE part of enjoying Lotro. It's not going to be for everyone. For instance, my brother hates Lotro because he's just not a strong reader so he misses everything in the quest dialogues.
 
Jasker

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This thread is embarrassing.

THERE ARE 8+ BILLION PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. WE ARE PLAYING LIKE TWO MMORPGS.

This is impossible.

It cannot occur in base reality.

This isn't base reality.

This is a simulation.
 
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