Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

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Utah
<Gold Donor>
11,868
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Holy shit this is a dumb argument. This is like the "Tastes Great!" vs "Less Filling" commercial. The game is both, it is not exclusively one or the other. This game is being designed and developed with PvE & PvP in mind. Can we get back to discussing features the game as?
 

DMK_sl

shitlord
1,600
0
Holy shit this is a dumb argument. This is like the "Tastes Great!" vs "Less Filling" commercial. The game is both, it is not exclusively one or the other. This game is being designed and developed with PvE & PvP in mind. Can we get back to discussing features the game as?
Thanks so much for setting that straight for us bra! Think of what would of happened if you weren't here to enlighten us with your wisdom. Oh and I'll be sure to start discussing game features because you just told me to. Because PvP and PvE aren't features of the game....
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
44,152
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Hardly a pvp game, but there's certainly some potential and hope on my part that it'll be good for pvp. The open world stuff in combination with attackable/destroyable settler deployables could make for some interesting and fun times. That and warplots are where it's at for me.
Exactly this and what Draegan has been saying. The PVP aspects of this game are cool, don't get me wrong. But if anything they are to add variety to the game. Especially Warplots. Something ultra-cool to sink a guilds resources (platinum) into, have some fun and fight mudflation. The use of skillshots and unique animations for all skills per class are a step in the right direction as far as meaningful PVP goes. But take it with a grain of salt and enjoy the variety it offers.
 

zzeris

The Real Benny Johnson
<Gold Donor>
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As much as I love PvP, games that want a wider audience just can't make it a top priority. Either a game will trivialize the rewards, or a small subset of the player base will always have an advantage from previous teamwork, etc. No one wants to lose over and over to a pro squad. Make it a fun endgame option for whoever wants to participate and everyone ends up happier. This game is sounding like a great time waster even if it doesn't last as an addiction.
 

Tmac

Adventurer
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
10,287
17,953
A major reason we don't see this stuff anymore is that it all gets removed, nerfed, and sanitized because a dev team cannot "balance" creative shit like that. And those things are fun. Any game that attempts to do both makes the shit in the game bland for both sides of the coin. PvP'ers don't get real balance ever, and PvE'ers don't get to work towards their godly sword of doom.
The surgical balancing Blizzard pursues with their PVP is exactly what sucks all the fun out of it.

PVP isn't fun when you do it in a lab. It's fun when it's random and overblown. It's fun when the tides turn.

PVP in WoW stopped being hilariously fun when they tried to create a meta-game within the mini-game that are BG's.

If WoW hadn't have had hard coded factions and added a few neutral points of interest, world PVP could've been glorious.

The problems begin when devs start fine-tuning PVP instead of just focusing on PVE.

Let the playas play!
 

DMK_sl

shitlord
1,600
0
Yeah it's really fun when you randomly get cheesed or your class is the gimp one. PvP is the most enjoyable when it is balanced and skill is the reason you win not some bullshit OP class like you seem to be inferring. Why do you think SC 2 is such a great game? Because it's pretty much the closest thing to balance you are ever going to get.

I could be wrong but it sounds like you used to enjoy playing OP classes and stomping people because of it.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
PVP is in the game because when you spent a billion dollars on a game you have to make it appeal to everyone, instead of focusing on any one thing.
 

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
You're all so fucking annoying it's quite impressive. This is literally a thing we argue about in every single mmo thread.
EVERY THREAD.

The game isn't even out, why are you already arguing?
 

Xevy

Log Wizard
9,061
4,288
Wildstar has a limited action set on your bar.

That's bigger for PVP than most of you can understand.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,597
11,941
Wildstar has a limited action set on your bar.

That's bigger for PVP than most of you can understand.
Agreed. It's much easier though for people to remain ignorant and not google shit and just drop by threads and repeat the same shit that they do in every thread.
 

Heallun

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,100
1,073
Agreed. It's much easier though for people to remain ignorant and not google shit and just drop by threads and repeat the same shit that they do in every thread.
I just got here :| I'd be happy either way on the pvp and my telegraph concerns were assuaged!
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,597
11,941
I just got here :| I'd be happy either way on the pvp and my telegraph concerns were assuaged!
Actually my post was assholish and wasn't directed towards you. Just don't understand why people spend so much time in threads of games they have no desire to play or like. It's the same bitter ass argument over and over. My apologies.
 

Heallun

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,100
1,073
Actually my post was assholish and wasn't directed towards you. Just don't understand why people spend so much time in threads of games they have no desire to play or like. It's the same bitter ass argument over and over. My apologies.
I figured the personalities with etched-in-stone viewpoints were part of what made FOH boards FOH boards? After talking to the same people for so many years you realize you probably already know their opinions (and often their input) before it's posted. The rest is just humor.

edit: Back on the topic of Wildstar--are there plans soon for a large content reveal? From the gameplay videos available they don't seem to have even basic class balance down, let alone group balance and raid balance. Not sure if this is ready for a 2013 release...
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
Yeah it's really fun when you randomly get cheesed or your class is the gimp one. PvP is the most enjoyable when it is balanced and skill is the reason you win not some bullshit OP class like you seem to be inferring. Why do you think SC 2 is such a great game? Because it's pretty much the closest thing to balance you are ever going to get.

I could be wrong but it sounds like you used to enjoy playing OP classes and stomping people because of it.
Its alot easier to make a soft rock-paper-scissors balance system in RTS games though. Applying SC2 balancing to the MMO sphere gives you auto-wins and auto-loss. Regardless, he didnt say he wants auto-wins or to be the OP class, he said the game is less fun if everything is watered down into a perfectly balanced, bland soup that tastes like nothing. And that's what most MMO PvP that was "balanced" would turn. I say would because they are never was balanced proper to begin with. Now maybe you can pull examples out of the air from the more recent years when every class in WoW or any other MMO since was balanced in several PvP scenarios at the same time (arena, small bg, big bg, not OP while holding a point, unstoppable runner etc). I just know when I played there was always a class or two that stood above the rest in too many of those scenarios and and one or two that were the laughing stock of the other classes. And these balance attempts that didnt actually work out came at the price of interesting pve abilities.

World pvp might be a problem with this suggestion, but for all the restricted to pure pvp areas like arenas I would prefer classes to have a different skill pool. You can have overlap for skills that actually work the same, but if in doubt split them in two. Different names and all so the whole "works different in pvp" issue doesnt come up.

Limited skill bar is great for PvP (well for PvE too). Remains to be seen how often you can switch out but I hope it requires being out of combat for a long enough time that switching is a preparation decision and not one made during a fight.
 

Heallun

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,100
1,073
Curious how you got to this point.
Sure! Each one of their videos they're barely damaging the enemies or are completely rolling the enemies. I've seen no group or pvp gameplay showcased. Perhaps they're just not showing us the videos of these things but I'd speculate that it's because they're not sure how they want characters to be in relation to each other and that they don't have the numbers close to finalized. Also, there are 2 more classes still yet to be revealed which may make showing group content harder, who knows. I'm sure it's being tested internally.
 

DMK_sl

shitlord
1,600
0
Its alot easier to make a soft rock-paper-scissors balance system in RTS games though. Applying SC2 balancing to the MMO sphere gives you auto-wins and auto-loss. Regardless, he didnt say he wants auto-wins or to be the OP class, he said the game is less fun if everything is watered down into a perfectly balanced, bland soup that tastes like nothing. And that's what most MMO PvP that was "balanced" would turn. I say would because they are never was balanced proper to begin with. Now maybe you can pull examples out of the air from the more recent years when every class in WoW or any other MMO since was balanced in several PvP scenarios at the same time (arena, small bg, big bg, not OP while holding a point, unstoppable runner etc). I just know when I played there was always a class or two that stood above the rest in too many of those scenarios and and one or two that were the laughing stock of the other classes. And these balance attempts that didnt actually work out came at the price of interesting pve abilities.

World pvp might be a problem with this suggestion, but for all the restricted to pure pvp areas like arenas I would prefer classes to have a different skill pool. You can have overlap for skills that actually work the same, but if in doubt split them in two. Different names and all so the whole "works different in pvp" issue doesnt come up.

Limited skill bar is great for PvP (well for PvE too). Remains to be seen how often you can switch out but I hope it requires being out of combat for a long enough time that switching is a preparation decision and not one made during a fight.
I wish each class had a specific set of PvP abilities that can only be used in PvP. Obviously that's a lot more work for Devs but that way you could balance PvP really well. It wouldn't affect PvE at all and give the PvP a lot of depth. .
/
 

DMK_sl

shitlord
1,600
0
Sure! Each one of their videos they're barely damaging the enemies or are completely rolling the enemies. I've seen no group or pvp gameplay showcased. Perhaps they're just not showing us the videos of these things but I'd speculate that it's because they're not sure how they want characters to be in relation to each other and that they don't have the numbers close to finalized. Also, there are 2 more classes still yet to be revealed which may make showing group content harder, who knows. I'm sure it's being tested internally.
I hope you're trolling..
 

Valderen

Space Pirate
<Bronze Donator>
4,639
2,866
Newp, probably just haven't done enough research. I've only done minimal searching. I'd be interested in some group gameplay or group pvp videos if you have links to any.
There are no group or pvp video right now.

As for balance from a gameplay video, it's hard to say...most of the video out there though are developers playing, and they are in invincible mode and not taking any damage.