Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

DMK_sl said:

I never understood macro rotations doesn't that take all the fun out of actually playing the game? To each their own but just sitting there press one button would get old real quick for me. I know essentially all I'm doing is pressing the same 6 buttons but still...

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I think you pretty much answered your own question. However, I'd argue the less buttons there are the less need one has to macro. Also, just because one has a macro doesn't mean they always have to use it. MMOs have morphed from thinking more to hours of button mashing, and especially with games like EQ2 and even some WOW classes if you are playing for extended periods of time it's brutal if you aren't 25 and also work on a PC during the day.

The bigger advantage of macro keyboards is the ability to do things faster than most human hands can, and it's a huge advantage in PVP, especially if you can circle strafe and use multiple abilities right at their global cooldown and mash multiple buttons simultaneous via one key.

The game, story, talents, and thinking to me are fun. Mashing the same keys in sequence over and over, not so much. I'm not sure how anyone plays EQ2 without a G13 or G15.

Gecko_sl said:

It essentially can automate your entire rotation, and if you put it on repeat, it can actually automate an entire raid encounter. Record it via the MR key, then put it on nonstop and voila.

It's not superior to doing things manually, but it's immensely useful. My G15 version one is still going strong a good 10 years after I bought it, too.

Plus, it's just damn useful. If you have 3 or 4 oh shit buttons, you can map them to one of your G keys and just hit that when in trouble instead of having to push the actual buttons which takes far more time. You just go in and edit out the delay so instead of the 1/2 to 1 second per push, you can spam them all at the same time which is very useful if they are not on a global timer.

I can't imagine playing any MMO without some sort of macro keyboard or n52. I think it's the only reason I don't have carpal tunnel. You can easily use it with GW2 or Diablo 3 and customize it. I even use my G15 with my controller as I have things mapped to the controller keys via GlovePIE then Macro those same keys to repeat via my G keys so I end up not having to spam so many buttons.

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Yeah but using my WOW example--cooldowns almost always need to be spaced during the encounters (as a tank). You'd usually want just enough cd usage to survive one particular burst to be ready for the next. Most of the rotations have a random element to them such as procs or x% to gain an additional combo point, etc. There's no way to macro that kind of rotation with 100% efficiency. Are you able to interject while still continuing the macro commands? What if you're trying to press buttons during your gcd but the macro decided to keep going? It just doesn't seem like it would really work that kind of design. Certain GW2 classes really did lend themselves to this kind of macro'ing though as they had like 5 damage abilities that had a very definite priority and little skill to skill interaction.

edit: Also as far as multiple abilities on the same button, if abilities are off the GCD a very simple useability, useitem etc. macros can be made without the keyboard functionality and can be bound to any key of your choosing.

You have multiple G keys with multiple macro's bound to them, and can set some to auto repeat or not. Say you have 5 defensive abilities not on the global cooldown. You can map all of those to say, key G5 so when it's your turn as the tank to take the big hit, you press one key and all 5 of those abilities fire off at once. Immediately. You do that while your main attacks are not interrupted at all due to auto repeating. You can even set up macros to step back 5 paces every X amount of seconds, and then X seconds later walk back up on another key.

Turning off macro auto repeat is a simple matter of pushing one button again. It definitely isn't perfect, but macro's for tanking make life simple and far more effective. It lets you overcome the limited bind abilities and protections in place for ingame keybinds, generally, too. You can use potions, items, etc that may not be allowed all at the same time.

In your cooldown example: macro functionality is already supported in most games. Especially in the WoW example. Barring the autorepeats which are not supported functionality in many modern mmo's.

Also, hrm. You could macro a heigan dance then if you needed to Interesting. You'd have to make sure you were in the same location when you activated it but overall not bad. The procs on wow abiltiies are so frequent that I'm not sure how useful it could be.

They're really hurting themselves when they let retards review their game early. The E3 thing is unavoidable, that's understandable but jfc

Soygen_sl said:

Not to mention that The Division took years in development for that 9 hours(I'm guessing this was a made-up number?) of gameplay. Are you ok with 9 hours of a super awesome 10 man dungeon...every 2 years? Obviously this isn't an apples to apples comparison, so it's kind of a whack argument anyway. My point is that MMOs are meant to be played over long periods of time without a somewhat regular release of new content and as such, you're not going to see the detail of a high-budget single-player(or non-MMO multiplayer) game in them

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They could just make it like an mmo and make you do each level 5-6 times before you can go to the next level and repeat the last level over and over and over until you quit

Valderen_sl said:

I have to agree, the people playing are always fairly bad and it makes combat look boring, but then again watching combat in MMO always look boring.

Having said that most leaks and comments about combat say that while kinda good, it's not great and feel a little off which worries me. Smooth combat is very important since its the primary activity. I hole it's either overreaction or stuff that will be fix before release.

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If it's "just a little off," let's hope it's just a matter of tuning, then, and not a fundamental flaw in design.

Wtf is with this current trend towards twitch combat in MMORPGs? I seriously can't fucking stand it, and despite how amazing this game's systems look, there's no way ill be playing it if I can't play for a 3 hour stretch without my fingers, eyes and brain bleeding from over use.

Quaid_sl said:

Wtf is with this current trend towards twitch combat in MMORPGs? I seriously can't fucking stand it, and despite how amazing this game's systems look, there's no way ill be playing it if I can't play for a 3 hour stretch without my fingers, eyes and brain bleeding from over use.

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I don't get this complaint... do you play MMO's longer than FPS's for some reason?

an accordion_sl said:

I don't get this complaint... do you play MMO's longer than FPS's for some reason?

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For longer periods of time. Absolutely.

I love the fact they are trying to make combat more 'twitch' but cmon it's not really that 'twitch'. I respect everyone is different but Tera's combat (which i fucken loved) was as twitch as you can get in an MMO at the moment and it was still pretty slow.

To be honest I'd love PvE to be just like Diablo in MMOs. I hate taking 5 minutes to kill 1 mob. I love Diablos fast pace and the satisfaction of killing quickly but still having to think when the difficutly ramps up.

Yes, because dodge or die mechanics are so much fun,especiallywith a ping of 300ms.

Ummm. I'm from Australia and have been dealing with 300ms my whole life and still loved Tera and had no trouble at all killing things.

As I've said it's not REALLY that twitch it's still pretty slow. I don't even really consider it twitch game play an FPS is twitch game play.

After reading a lot of these comments, I'm starting to think people want a turn based MMO. Has that ever been tried before?

I don't see why death needs to be the penalty for flubbing a reaction. They just make you memorize the pattern for each deadly event so you don't repeat the critical failure. Especially harsh penalties don't teach you to react to failure positively, they teach you to avoid it beforehand by playing perfectly, which is asshole puckering stress. Diablo 3 has/had a lot of very strong void zones mechanics which people either out-geared or played ranged to ignore them. I don't see how either of those reactions by the player signified appropriate punishments.

I'm far more interested in penalizing time directly as part of the course of gameplay without involving the graveyard rush. Instead of reducing my HP to 0 try my mana, movement, or attack range. Death penalties inevitably equate to time = progress, but they're especially heinous because they involve downtime wherein you're not making progress, you're preparing to by traveling, repairing, rebuffing, etc. That downtime between attempts at whatever killed you is soul crushingly boring, and, in the vacuum of content, can pit you against those that lash out against the group/individual in their frustration.

Why not force them to deal with inefficiencies without killing them? They're not taken out of the event so their responses are still fluid. They'll learn to do better just to progress faster. The guy that is adapting to void zones will kill 10 mobs in a minute, and the guy that gets hit by all of them kills 10 mobs in 3 minutes. The encounter becomes a classroom to play better rather than a single lesson in not standing in fire.

DMK_sl said:

I love the fact they are trying to make combat more 'twitch' but cmon it's not really that 'twitch'. I respect everyone is different but Tera's combat (which i fucken loved) was as twitch as you can get in an MMO at the moment and it was still pretty slow.

To be honest I'd love PvE to be just like Diablo in MMOs. I hate taking 5 minutes to kill 1 mob. I love Diablos fast pace and the satisfaction of killing quickly but still having to think when the difficutly ramps up.

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Exactly. Games like TERA try to make combat twitchy, but it's never quite satisfying. This is my point - I don't feel it belongs in MMORPGs. One could argue quite convincingly that the draw of an MMO is social interaction. Why then, would you make an MMO in which during the largest portion of the gameplay (combat) you are unable to socialize (type)? Makes zero sense to me.

Then the guy that isn't as good still gets to play all the content the good guy gets to play. I'm not a fan of this 'everyone should have a go' to be honest I think it's for pussys. I personally will never be a hardcore MMO play and I'm totally fine with the fact that due to me not commiting as much to a game I don't get as rewarded as people who do.

Quaid_sl said:

Exactly. Games like TERA try to make combat twitchy, but it's never quite satisfying. This is my point - I don't feel it belongs in MMORPGs. One could argue quite convincingly that the draw of an MMO is social interaction. Why then, would you make an MMO in which during the largest portion of the gameplay (combat) you are unable to socialize (type)? Makes zero sense to me.

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Well not exactly.. Just because it's not FPS twitchy doesn't mean it's not good combat. It's pretty much an Action RPG which is a genre in itself.

And I completely disagree with the whole "If I can't type while I fight mobs the combat sucks" like seriously... No offence but that's a terrible idea. May aswell go play second life or something weird like that...People play MMO's yes to socialize but mostly to escape into a world. A world that has fighting/community/drama etc etc. They don't play MMO's to ONLY socialize they want the whole package an MMO can offer not a glorified chat room.