Witcher 3

Sidian · Apr 19, 2015

Or it means you can go off the beaten path just instead of following a guide to kill the random rare monster off beaten path C and owning path A & B afterwards means you can still do C, get a "rare" item that is better then what you have and still beat A & B easier but it won't be as OP as every other game. It's one of the main reasons I got so bored with Skyrim. I was playing all open world, eventually leveled up blacksmithing, got the best armor in the game, then everything else became a joke all because I felt like running around maxing my blacksmithing up. Wish I never did that because after the 20 hours to do that everything else in the game(besides the random rare bosses) was a complete joke and made it boring as hell.

Where as say the blacksmithing armor scaled with my level, well maybe it would have been awesome at level 12 when I finished it but with level 20 mobs it wouldn't be the best in the game still. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer this gear scaling, will make the overall game much more balanced and therefore much more enjoyable, especially during the first playthrough.

Vorph · Apr 19, 2015

I agree that it might defeat the purpose of an open world map, but that's fine with me. The Witcher should remain story driven, and not turn into some sort of Skyrim bullshit where the story is practically an afterthought as you go wandering around the world for 80 hours, completely ignoring it. I still think a branching-linear narrative is vastly superior to a completely open sandbox.

Dandai · Apr 19, 2015

Sidian_sl said:
Or it means you can go off the beaten path just instead of following a guide to kill the random rare monster off beaten path C and owning path A & B afterwards means you can still do C, get a "rare" item that is better then what you have and still beat A & B easier but it won't be as OP as every other game. It's one of the main reasons I got so bored with Skyrim. I was playing all open world, eventually leveled up blacksmithing, got the best armor in the game, then everything else became a joke all because I felt like running around maxing my blacksmithing up. Wish I never did that because after the 20 hours to do that everything else in the game(besides the random rare bosses) was a complete joke and made it boring as hell.

Where as say the blacksmithing armor scaled with my level, well maybe it would have been awesome at level 12 when I finished it but with level 20 mobs it wouldn't be the best in the game still. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer this gear scaling, will make the overall game much more balanced and therefore much more enjoyable, especially during the first playthrough.

That's an interesting observation, as I did the exact same thing when I first played Skyrim. Without the draw of phat loots, I couldn't maintain any interest in the game as nothing I was encountering was very challenging. Hopefully our concerns are unfounded and the system will be unexpectedly awesome.

Foggy · Apr 19, 2015

If anything, monsters and loot below your level should scale up, keeping all content challenging, and nothing should scale down above your level.

iannis · Apr 19, 2015

I might be wrong, but I assume the loot scaling speaks to too much content rather than too little.

The map looks huge. If they've packed it in, then going through their spreadsheet and testing every possible encounter for every bit of cheese would be tedious and take forever. Way easier to just apply some global loot scaling thingamamath.

But I might be wrong and it might be complete wtf. Either way:

ronpaul.gfycat

popsicledeath · Apr 19, 2015

Sidian_sl said:
you guys are bitching about gear scaling?

Now, now, pay attention. Bitching about gear scaling are the words we're using, but the meaning is that it makes no fucking sense and jacks up suspension of disbelief when you're playing a game, and are familiar with games, and run across something that's suck a crock of shit we wonder what the fuck they were thinking.

Sidian_sl said:
All this does it make it much easier to balance overall because you will never get completely overpowered compared to your level range, balancing stats is already a very tough (if not impossible) thing to do in an open world single player RPG.

BALANCE?!

If they're concerned about balance, they shouldn't make an open world game. Instead of spending time, resources, and player-WTFs to balance something you admit is very tough or impossible to do, they should just save themselves the hassle and not design something into the game that is a red flag and crock of shit. Or just make the game linear, or control kills with other mechanics like quests or unlocking mobs, etc.

popsicledeath · Apr 19, 2015

Sidian_sl said:
Or it means you can go off the beaten path just instead of following a guide to kill the random rare monster off beaten path C and owning path A & B afterwards means you can still do C, get a "rare" item that is better then what you have and still beat A & B easier but it won't be as OP as every other game. It's one of the main reasons I got so bored with Skyrim. I was playing all open world, eventually leveled up blacksmithing, got the best armor in the game, then everything else became a joke all because I felt like running around maxing my blacksmithing up. Wish I never did that because after the 20 hours to do that everything else in the game(besides the random rare bosses) was a complete joke and made it boring as hell.

Where as say the blacksmithing armor scaled with my level, well maybe it would have been awesome at level 12 when I finished it but with level 20 mobs it wouldn't be the best in the game still. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer this gear scaling, will make the overall game much more balanced and therefore much more enjoyable, especially during the first playthrough.

So, you successfully played a game in an open world. Just like in the real world, before venturing out you over-prepared yourself, and got the expected results. You spend years in your garage paying someone to add mods and upgrades to your Honda so it would already be hella fast when you hit the streets.... what did you expect to happen?

Don't sit in town leveling up a tradeskill and expect it to not help you (often immensely)? Don't follow some 'guide' to get an item that will trivialize other content? Or, if you want, do it... you can do that in an open world!

Basically, I don't want them to make odd game-design decisions on the assumptions that other people need their hands held and someone to change their diapers in an open world game. Just don't make it open world at that point. And if people who can't control themselves aren't having fun, good.

Caliane · Apr 19, 2015

popsicledeath_sl said:
If they're concerned about balance, they shouldn't make an open world game. Instead of spending time, resources, and player-WTFs to balance something you admit is very tough or impossible to do, they should just save themselves the hassle and not design something into the game that is a red flag and crock of shit. Or just make the game linear, or control kills with other mechanics like quests or unlocking mobs, etc.

I think we've mentioned it. but yeah, open world games could learn a lesson from Zelda/metroid. gate areas with special skills/tools. Rock climbing... require a certain run stat level or something to make a jump required.. Clear some bandits to open up the roads to a certain area. thus gating by require a boss fight.. repair a bridge, etc, etc.

Kedwyn · Apr 19, 2015

How about fuck your perceived balance that is generally unbalanced garbage that ultimately hurts actual game play and if you're going to bother making an open world game stop trying to force me into playing in some predetermined fashion.

I'm sure Witcher will stand on its own as an excellent game in its own right but the tendency to over balance and sterilize games in the name of balance is a trend that needs to stop.

Caliane · Apr 19, 2015

how about narrative and progression?

how many people didnt even finish the skyrim mainquest? I sure as fuck didn't.
is that ok for skyrim? maybe. is that ok with The Witcher? fuck no.

Vorph · Apr 19, 2015

popsicledeath_sl said:
If they're concerned about balance, they shouldn't make an open world game. Instead of spending time, resources, and player-WTFs to balance something you admit is very tough or impossible to do, they should just save themselves the hassle and not design something into the game that is a red flag and crock of shit. Or just make the game linear, or control kills with other mechanics like quests or unlocking mobs, etc.

This would have been my preference but that's not the game they made.

I think the real issue is expectations. Do people think they're getting a sandbox game set in the Witcher world, or do they think they're getting a Witcher game with a big map instead of a bunch of small ones that are compartmentalized by chapter with some sandbox-style content as sidequest material? I'm betting on the latter.

Kedwyn · Apr 19, 2015

Caliane_sl said:
how about narrative and progression?

how many people didnt even finish the skyrim mainquest? I sure as fuck didn't.
is that ok for skyrim? maybe. is that ok with The Witcher? fuck no.

So because skyrim has mediocre main quests that means every game with an open world is forced to as well? Riiiiiight.

Tuco · Apr 20, 2015

Vorph_sl said:
This would have been my preference but that's not the game they made.

I think the real issue is expectations. Do people think they're getting a sandbox game set in the Witcher world, or do they think they're getting a Witcher game with a big map instead of a bunch of small ones that are compartmentalized by chapter with some sandbox-style content as sidequest material? I'm betting on the latter.

I honestly dont know what we are getting.

iannis · Apr 20, 2015

I'm thinking we're getting a witcher game with a big map with a couple of sandbox elements.

I wouldn't expect much sand. At least I personally am not. The rails will be there, you'll just be allowed to stray from them a bit.

Didn't they extend development because some initial feedback that they got was along the lines of it was too MMO-ey same-y, and they needed to fill in more?

Tuco · Apr 20, 2015

The funny thing about the Witcher is that it lends itself very well to sandbox games because of how open the 'monster killer' theme is. The main storylines in the witcher games where Geralt is fighting some political war, or coming into contact with the Wild Hunt always seemed like exceptions to Geralt's lifestyle rather than the typical stuff he does.

jooka · Apr 20, 2015

While that's his trade, the stories don't delve to far into that at all.(the books)

Tuco · Apr 20, 2015

I didn't read the books, so maybe you could enlighten me. To me it seems like Geralt spends 90% of his time fighting monsters across the land and 10% of his time doing the shit we did in Witcher1/2. Is that not true?

jooka · Apr 20, 2015

Off killing monsters is more background info in the books, a way to describe how much of a bad ass he is. It's what he does/trained to do as a profession. From there it goes on into how he ends up in situations he doesn't really want to be in that's political. So in the books the 10% you talk about is more like 80%

Dandain · Apr 20, 2015

I was just going to mention that I really like the fact that if you own each Witcher game on steam they give you 5% off the preorder. Nice nod to buyers of the previous titles and worth another mention.

Vorph · Apr 21, 2015

And 20% off if you own them on GOG.

Witcher 3

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