World of Warcraft: Classic

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Ossoi

Ossoi

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Chysamere said:
Do you have some kind of autism that makes it difficult for you to pick up on non-direct statements?

I'm not playing a rogue in classic. I have never said I am playing a rogue in classic. I just said I was planning on playing Paladin or Priest, which has also been re-iterated several times in this thread as well as on the spreadsheet for the FoH guild.

Why are you continuing to say stuff about fury rogues taking my leather? I'm not trying to pick on the retarded kid but damn if you don't make it difficult.
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I never said you are playing a rogue, I said I hope you aren't. Do you have some kind of autism that makes it difficult for you to comprehend my posts?

I edited my original before I saw your reply, afterwards I quoted my now edited post to make sure you saw it.

WTF is a fury rogue?
 
Warmuth

Warmuth

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I have no idea who he is but that video showed up on youtube for whatever reason and I watched it. Was pretty great.
 
a c i d.f l y

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Ossoi said:
Why would it be any different in classic? The only possible explanation would be if private servers somehow overtuned warriors abilities, which is extremely unlikely.

There's 1 rogue in the top 30 Northdale DPS across MC+BWL+AQ40+Naxx rankings, the rest is mages and warriors. LegacyPlayers | Ranking

The biggest adjustment I faced upon hitting 60 on Northdale was not being able to find warriors willing to tank dungeons because they were all fury/dps and wearing leather to maximise their DPS.

It's different now that Naxx level gear is out, but as already mentioned Ghoul Skin Tunic and other random leather pieces are still considered BIS for warriors.

It's stupid to think that Classic is going to be exactly the same eg specs, strats, as 13 years ago.
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Why wouldn't it? It's already been shown that about 70% of mobs have different health and damage between classic and private servers. Wouldn't be surprised if private server fury warriors are an abberation. Private servers were close, but they don't have the exact figures. I could also see warriors being tweaked higher to increase the number of tanks, since there weren't any alternatives.

I also fully expect strats to be the same. They haven't changed much, even with private servers eeking out means of avoiding mechanics by over gearing (which was happening already during late vanilla).

We'll see within the first 6-8 months what actually holds. Wouldn't hold my breath if I was planning to play a warrior or rogue. Rogue has its own perks, even if it's not being top dps in pve.
 
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Torrid

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One thing that really bothered me while working on EQ emus was how little everybody seemed to care about NPC statistics accuracy. Like I was wasting my life trying to get accurate stats for NPCs and nobody would even notice what is a significant difference between actual values vs. numbers pulled out of somebody's ass. NPCs missing entire abilities go unnoticed.

The metas that arose on WoW emus will be blown to pieces in Classic. I rolled rogue at launch in 2004 and rerolled mage in part because rogues were getting kicked from MC raids. This meta of raids being almost all warriors and rogues on emus is because of the inaccuracy of those servers, I'm pretty sure. It's not like people were morons back then and couldn't realize that melee DPS was so vastly superior.
 
a c i d.f l y

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Torrid said:
One thing that really bothered me while working on EQ emus was how little everybody seemed to care about NPC statistics accuracy. Like I was wasting my life trying to get accurate stats for NPCs and nobody would even notice what is a significant difference between actual values vs. numbers pulled out of somebody's ass. NPCs missing entire abilities go unnoticed.

The metas that arose on WoW emus will be blown to pieces in Classic. I rolled rogue at launch in 2004 and rerolled mage in part because rogues were getting kicked from MC raids. This meta of raids being almost all warriors and rogues on emus is because of the inaccuracy of those servers, I'm pretty sure. It's not like people were morons back then and couldn't realize that melee DPS was so vastly superior.
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To be fair, rogues were fucking god awful until they got a weapon out of MC (also most didn't know how to play or spec them, combat swords you fuckheads
...). The irony of them being kicked from an MC raid. I topped dps with feral in MC until the rogues got their weapons...
 
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Ossoi

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a c i d.f l y said:
Why wouldn't it? It's already been shown that about 70% of mobs have different health and damage between classic and private servers. Wouldn't be surprised if private server fury warriors are an abberation. Private servers were close, but they don't have the exact figures. I could also see warriors being tweaked higher to increase the number of tanks, since there weren't any alternatives.

I also fully expect strats to be the same. They haven't changed much, even with private servers eeking out means of avoiding mechanics by over gearing (which was happening already during late vanilla).

We'll see within the first 6-8 months what actually holds. Wouldn't hold my breath if I was planning to play a warrior or rogue. Rogue has its own perks, even if it's not being top dps in pve.
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Have you even played/raided on a pvt server because if not then we can nip this in the bud right here.

I'm not sure how you can claim that a classes abilities could be wrong when that kind of stuff wasn't hidden like mob armor/hp/resistances eg. If the tool tip says "does weapon dmg + 20" then it's pretty straight forward to copy that over.

a c i d.f l y said:
I also fully expect strats to be the same.
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Honestly, this notion that things are going to be the same 13-14 years later is pretty stupid. People have had 13-14 years to learn everything there is to know about Vanilla, and people are doing stuff a lot differently - hence why someone recently figured out how effectively dps in catform

I mean, look at this video of the world first Vael kill -

Visible in the chat is "lionheart = pvp" when actually it's BIS into Naxx Lionheart Helm - Items - Vanilla so that's a world first level guild who by todays standards didn't know how to gear their warriors properly.

One thing that will be different in Classic is the current pvt server practice of getting DMT, Songflower, ZG and Onyxia buffs before raids, with Ony being on its original timer. But even then, Rogues also get the same buffs so that doesn't explain why fury warriors are best melee dps.
 
T

Torrid

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Ossoi said:
I'm not sure how you can claim that a classes abilities could be wrong when that kind of stuff wasn't hidden like mob armor/hp/resistances eg. If the tool tip says "does weapon dmg + 20" then it's pretty straight forward to copy that over.
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Easy. Implementation errors, to start with. Even if you have the precise calcs, doesn't mean they are all implemented correctly. I found many errors in my own code over the years when I implemented EQ combat mechanics. Granted they were relatively minor as testing finds anything major.

Secondly those hidden NPC stats have a large impact on encounter difficulty. If your NPCs have paper armor, then naturally your melee DPS will perform much better. I have precise classic EQ combat rolls implemented, but they're not really precise in-game without accurate NPC data. Even just granting less HP to bosses will favor classes blowing cooldowns. This stuff matters. Proc rates being way too high is another known emu issue.

Also things like hitboxes have a large impact on gameplay. Everybody is saying how classic hitboxes are massive and 'it can't be right'. I recall dodging MC trash AoEs by mentally timing them and briefly running out of range then back. If hitboxes are much smaller, then that is much easier. These details add up.
 
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T

Torrid

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Ossoi said:
We are discussing rogues Vs warriors, both of which are melee DPS
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This started as a generic rogue DPS rant before you turned it into a fury warrior rant, but whatever you win on the internet.

If the emus can't even get basic things like mana and health regen right, (according to Tip's video) what makes anybody think they have things like rage gen right? Fury warriors may top the DPS meters in Classic, but don't take it for granted
 
Khane

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Wasn't the world first Ragnaros kill like 10 rogues or some shit?
 
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Arbitrary

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Torrid said:
I plead guilty
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I leveled a rogue for a while because I thought mace spec looked really cool. Maces! On a rogue! EVEN MORE STUNS. It taught me that trash exp mobs benefit from diminishing returns on stuns.

I was very disappointed in my lesson.
 
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Ossoi

Ossoi

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Torrid said:
This started as a generic rogue DPS rant before you turned it into a fury warrior rant, but whatever you win on the internet.

If the emus can't even get basic things like mana and health regen right, (according to Tip's video) what makes anybody think they have things like rage gen right? Fury warriors may top the DPS meters in Classic, but don't take it for granted
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Have any beta testers pointed out rage is slower than pvt servers?

There's your answer
 
xzi

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Chanur said:
Warriors were beating rogues in my vanilla guild post BWL raids. That was fairly normal I thought.
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Same, but we had a fury warrior with that +nature damage mace from naxx and a thunderfury

most of his time was spent shooting his gun because like 3 procs and he would pull agro immediately, it was like a windfury proc on roids

hilarious in pvp though
 
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Ossoi

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Another example of how greater knowledge improves performance of warriors - on Alliance 99.9% of warriors are human females

Human because people realised the +weapon skill on swords/maces massively improves DPS (this applies to human rogues too). Female is something to do with hotboxes

That's why Edgemasters Gloves go for 800-1000g, people have a better understanding of how weapon skill boosts damage against raid level mobs

How many people farmed Devilsaur on their rogue in vanilla? I remember at least one rogue in our guild doing it, not sure about the rest

Well on Northdale Devilsaur is pre raid bis for fury warriors and cross faction "mafias" work together to control the Devilsaur spawns/market because of the high demand

So yeah, you can speculate that pvt servers have inadvertently boosted warriors abilities, the reality is it's far more likely that 13 years has given people the knowledge necessary to make warriors the best melee DPS

Of course there's also the fact that classic will launch with 1.12 final talents, whereas we were all raiding without these talents to begin with


Edit: also the fact that people know exactly what items are best at every phase of content - hence the people that do BRD "lava runs" to farm Hand of Justice and Ironfoe

All these things cumulate to make things very different to how they were in retail.
 
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