Tmac
Adventurer
- 10,035
- 17,097
World of Warcraft: Classic
- Thread starter Tmac
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,905
- 6,891
Heheh. Old news for you all I'm sure. But when my friends started talking about Classic after spending years panning it, it kind of blew me away.
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Blizzard had said like 70% or more don’t even make it past level 10. It’s funny because WoW was so carebear level vs EQ in the hand holding department but compared to retail and current games I feel like many people aren’t cut out for a game that actually kills you if you aren’t careful.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,905
- 6,891
That's probably pretty close. These guys play mostly PvP, Black Desert, etc. So it isn't the PvE or grind that will bother them. I don't think they realize what happens on WoW PvP servers though. Haven't warned them. And some of them will love it.
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misery
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 309
- 262
We have to find a way to reverse this. Souls games are huge, so gritty gamers still exist. We need a new MMORPG that's so good it will make players to stick around through the inconveniences so they can realize how much those inconveniences actually help the experience feel more fulfilling. I'm tired to death of all these easy games with no consequences. If the world isn't dangerous I get bored. What's the point of going into a deep dark dungeon if there's no danger involved? It's not a dungeon at that point, it's just a free loot cave. Thankfully in Classic I can play on a PvP server, so the sense of danger will at least be alive and well in the open world.
Dungeons look really simple. I'm not sure if it's the patch or something else, but monsters seem to be dying incredibly easily. When I watch boss HP in Classic beta dungeon videos it just gets chunked off too easily, and I remember bosses hitting a bit harder. The sense of danger and respect for dungeons and bosses was definitely a thing in early WoW. WC, Deadmines, etc were much harder than they appear in the beta. People keep saying it's because players were shitty back then, but I don't think that's entirely accurate. A lot of us came from EQ and were basically trying to min-max our abilities and gear right out the gate. Even running the dungeons for the 20th time on an alt, the bosses seemed rougher. Maybe I just dreamed it, or maybe the guy who said they made encounters easier during an AQ era patch and we're getting that version with 1.12 is correct. Maybe it's because all the class changes have already been done and we're getting the strongest versions of our class. Maybe it's a mix of all of those.
I hope I'm not let down by how easy things have become, though. I want Classic because I don't want my hand held through everything. I don't want to be able to solo everything. I think a lot of people feel the same way. Hardship fosters community and lasting friendships, and in games that hardship has to be manufactured and properly implemented. If EQ had been easy, it would have completely ruined the game. Dark nights, danger around every corner, the bitch of a leveling process, faction that really mattered, travel that really felt like travel, seeing a war with the epic glowing weapons for the first time... I remember all of this the most vividly. So many adventures. Meeting someone in the world truly felt like something amazing. I've been waiting for a game to get this right ever since like most of us have. To think that the MMORPG community is going in the complete opposite direction likely explains why the MMORPG genre is largely considered to be failing.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 29,612
- 82,055
Alright.
Make a MMO that has all the hardcore, enter the world and thrown to the wolves, real decisions real consequences shit you want and then staple on to it some Stardew Valley type casual friendly sandbox game. Like that but waaaaaaay bigger. Give all the casuals, girlfriends, geezers and small children this entirely different thing to do in the same game world. You're out slaying dragons and they're tending fruit trees to grow the best cherries possible to bake the best cherry pie possible to win the cook off at the town fair later in the week.
People would love that shit.
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xzi
Mouthbreather
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After I stopped grinding in Black Desert, instead of quitting the game I started trading and tradeskills for played for another 3 months.
I enjoyed trading. It was literally just "load up a wagon, and afk ride for a half hour" but it was a weird niche I really got into for some reason.
Point being, agreed people love that shit. There should be people capable of slaying demigods but there should also be room for somebody who just only wants to make the best fucking tailoring items the entire server has ever seen because that's their lane they want to go down.
I enjoyed trading. It was literally just "load up a wagon, and afk ride for a half hour" but it was a weird niche I really got into for some reason.
Point being, agreed people love that shit. There should be people capable of slaying demigods but there should also be room for somebody who just only wants to make the best fucking tailoring items the entire server has ever seen because that's their lane they want to go down.
karma
Molten Core Raider
- 476
- 591
Its true. My wife and I didnt fare well in our early UO days, we werent used to the pvp concept, and found getting attacked while in the middle of something else to be tiresome. Instead of quitting we focus'ed on tradeskilling, and eventually opened up a pretty profitable vendor house. We didnt do much in the game but work, but we enjoyed it, and found our own little niche. We eventually expanded our way out to other aspects of the game, but because there was something we were better at than fighting monsters and people, we kept playing.
Made quite a bit of money selling gold on ebay because of that vendor house too lol.
Made quite a bit of money selling gold on ebay because of that vendor house too lol.
misery
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 309
- 262
Sounds awesome. Just make it so the fruit trees can wither and die if they're not taken care of and make it so critters can steal your shit if you don't defend it. That way they need to interact with the community if they want to be prosperous. It also gives players who might defend their goods from being stolen a reason to interact with and help the pie makers. You need to have a whole interconnected community of different types of players. You can have them doing completely different things, but in certain ways they greatly benefit or depend on one another. Let's say the pies they make give really nice buffs for dungeon running, stam, health regen, spellpower, whatever. Let these types of players fight their own battles with nature, other entrepreneurs, the weather and critters that want to take their crops.
Maybe goblins come out of the nearby forest from time to time to take a few apples off the tree or steal some of the pies. Let's say the players make really nice profit from selling their wares since not everyone can do what they do and spend all day gathering and making pies, so they can afford to pay people to guard their wares from goblins or maybe even other players and there's enough incentive to do so. Maybe have some advanced warning like a guard noticing goblin footprints to alert the townsfolk to be wary for goblins in the area. Then the farmer or shopkeeper could hire players to guard their stuff until the threat is over. Perhaps when the fog rolls in there's an increased change of bog monsters coming to mess your stuff up, so you should be on guard during those times. If you involve players stealing from shops, you'd need to have a jail system, a PK system ala Lineage II and other things in place so that griefers could be kept in check. I never played UO, but I think they had some interesting game mechanics related to PvP that might be utilized.
Maybe let players open up their own little shop like in Recettear with their own little storefront. They can decorate their shop or stand inside and out, but they also have to pay taxes to the king to do so. Maybe other people can make lanterns, long lasting torches and various other dungeoneering supplies. Make owning a shop something very prestigious, so that not everyone is incentivized to have their own shop but can instead work in a shop they like as an employee. Players who are more casual might stand on the streets to sell their wares, so that organic trading routes and areas can form, ala the EC tunnel. Maybe owning a small stand among a bunch of other stands can be the next step up from that. Guess I better stop before this ends up being a novel.
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uniqueuser
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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We already had this, more or less, two decades ago in Ultima Online.
That branch withered and died while the EQ/WoW one grew to bear the shitfruit still being consumed today.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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- 82,055
Think of it as a rediscovery of old technology. One day your recipe for concrete or steel just stopped working and it took a while for people to figure out again. Ultima Online is the gaming equivalent of forgotten lore.
When I say staple Stardew Valley 2.0 on to the existing MMO archetype I really mean it. Just backfill the entire rest of the world's innkeepers, farmers, dairy herders, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers with people doing entirely their own thing. People love that shit. Just scoop out a little hunk of the world and start a crab milkery.
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Bondurant
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,845
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They probably aren't, that's why Classic has a quite tight development team and why they can't really afford fixing stuff before release.
WoW Classic isn't vanilla, it's a "enjoy as you like" version of vanilla, with most of 1.12 patch content minus a lot of features. Blizzard isn't gonna make a bunch of money over it, a lot of WoW players with token subs are gonna play it basically for free, and there's like no services (gold, race, transfer, etc) you'll be able to buy. It's snapshot nostalgia, their way to bring people back into Live, unless you're in a very serious guild there's no way you're gonna stay busy at all, especially during the first 3 months where layering will be everywhere and BGs an upcoming content.
Live is still and will be their golden goose, money isn't about subs anymore, it's also about services. Their investor calls made it quite clear, it's been 6 years they speak about MAU (Monthly Active User) rather than subscriptions.
misery
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Ya know, after all these years, and everything we’ve been through together, it still brings a smile to my face that literally every thread about an mmorpg invariably turns into a game of limp biscuit about immersion and old school rpg mechanics.
Keep on truckin' you fucking dorks.
Keep on truckin' you fucking dorks.
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Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 29,612
- 82,055
Another 39 days about until I can start landing mad Skillcoils yo. Gotta pass the time somehow.
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Ukerric
Bearded Ape
- 8,372
- 10,406
Remember: somebody paid real money for that token.
And that's why it's doomed. Not because it's bad, but because Kotick Supreme Council will not tolerate a game that doesn't include lots of microtransaction opportunities for long.
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Jimbolini
Semi-pro Monopoly player
- 2,599
- 976
This describes me. I never really played WOW as I focused on other games, and I will be subbing 1-3 accounts for Classic.
It may fall apart 2 months later, but at least gives me an idea as to what the game is about.
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misery
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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- 262
I have a feeling some people are seriously underestimating how much Blizzard wants this to succeed and how well it will end up doing in the end. I've rarely seen so much hype over a game. YouTubers and streamers made hundreds of thousands of dollars during the beta. A lot of people have been waiting for a good MMORPG to play for a very long time, and WoW is tried and tested. I think you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of it. The dedicated PvP players will stick around for a very long time, and there are quite a few of them. Not to mention the time investment into the game and characters will keep many people busy and attached to the game for quite a while. The community building aspects of the game will help build up a strong community, just like they did during the original launch. The game is far from perfect, but it did a lot of stuff right. Oldschool WoW is a lot deeper than most people realize or remember. Go watch some of madseason's videos if you want to know how deep the game can go, hell here's an hour long powerpoint on just the bags and bag system in classic.
