World of Warcraft: Classic

Blessing of Wisdom: 30mp5, 12tick/min = 396mana/min, lasts 5m
blessing - Search - Classic DB

Mana Spring Totem: 10mp2, 30tick/min = 300mana/min, lasts 60s
Mana Tide Totem: 290mp3 x 4, 1160/cast
totem - Search - Classic DB

1 Blessing per Paladin, raid cast.
4 Totems per Shaman, group only.

World Firsts:
Alliance has 90% of the lesser bosses and Nefarian.
Horde took Onyxia, Ragnaros, C'Thun, and Kel'thuzad.

I'm actually tempted to level a shaman this time. Druid versatility was just too strong.

This was the damage meters from our first Rag kill without the UBRS fire resist buff. This isn't probably very reliable, since the range impacted damage reporting to the logs. Original Recount was really only reliable for your own group.

Found this video of the Ascent first kill on Rag... lol at channeling bandages.

xzi said:

Hunters pretty much just existed for tranq lol, but they were gods in pvp if played correctly. Only thing that countered them was warriors. (or rogues but rogues countered everything)

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My old AV shenanigans.

/sit in middle of AV, making it look like you're AFK
Freezing trap right on your ass
Wait for nub rogue to take bait

Sorry I didn't mean BoW, I meant the debuff the pld could put on the boss that would proc mana on hit. Judgement of Wisdom maybe? I think that's how it worked, you blessed yourself then judged the mob, put a debuff, and then maintained that, and everyone in the raid could get mp. It was a lot better than mana tide iirc, while BoW was just mana totem.

Anyway PvP wise the class was very solid imo and I liked it a lot in vanilla(played Tauren Hunter, which did help a bit with warriors/rogues with the stomp racial). PvE, it was like good at first but I think it got progressively worse? And you had to do stupid tranq shot rotations. In retrospect I don't know if I'd bother playing one again though. I think playing rogue or warrior is just better in vanilla, both pve and pvp in terms of qol and ease of use.

The problem with vanilla is so many classes played like shit. I raided for a little while on a priest during AQ and almost all I did was spam Heal 2 and PW:S for spikes and I guess SW: Pain for dot maybe. Downranking made healing fucking retarded since it was just more efficient to have 4healers spamming constant small heals for the entire fight than try to selectively apply your healing based on the situation or whatever, especially since downranking also made mana a non issue.

And tanking was mostly a warrior thing because bears and protadins were fucked in so many ways they could only OT on some fights(and maybe MT on some of the simpler fight although I don't remember ever being a reason to do that other than saying you could).

The balance sucked so much ass in vanilla.

Pyros said:

Sorry I didn't mean BoW, I meant the debuff the pld could put on the boss that would proc mana on hit. Judgement of Wisdom maybe? I think that's how it worked, you blessed yourself then judged the mob, put a debuff, and then maintained that, and everyone in the raid could get mp. It was a lot better than mana tide iirc, while BoW was just mana totem.

Anyway PvP wise the class was very solid imo and I liked it a lot in vanilla(played Tauren Hunter, which did help a bit with warriors/rogues with the stomp racial). PvE, it was like good at first but I think it got progressively worse? And you had to do stupid tranq shot rotations. In retrospect I don't know if I'd bother playing one again though. I think playing rogue or warrior is just better in vanilla, both pve and pvp in terms of qol and ease of use.

The problem with vanilla is so many classes played like shit. I raided for a little while on a priest during AQ and almost all I did was spam Heal 2 and PW:S for spikes and I guess SW: Pain for dot maybe. Downranking made healing fucking retarded since it was just more efficient to have 4healers spamming constant small heals for the entire fight than try to selectively apply your healing based on the situation or whatever, especially since downranking also made mana a non issue.

And tanking was mostly a warrior thing because bears and protadins were fucked in so many ways they could only OT on some fights(and maybe MT on some of the simpler fight although I don't remember ever being a reason to do that other than saying you could).

The balance sucked so much ass in vanilla.

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Judgement of Salvation, and fuck that because it took up a debuff slot and only benefitted mages, warlocks and hunters, and also if you were a paladin, ret and meleeing the boss gtfo. It was healers that primarily had to manage mana. The maintenance of throughput, threat, and mana management was the whole thing. A strong tank meant you could just spam Healing Touch rank 4 as a druid with zero mana/threat issues. Mage would also OOM or pull threat regardless of mana regen if they were dumping spells on a boss.

At peak gear the buffs of shaman vs paladin came down to kings vs windfury/air (for hunters). Shaman also had the conflict of element between totem use - water was mana regen, healing, and fire resistance, air was windfury, air, tranquil...

It was a lot more complicated than a lot of flat statement folks ("one is clearly better") remember. Kings certainly helped early on by giving a lot more Hp and reduced threat risk of dps for nongeared tanks, but long term shaman was a lot more versatile in raids. I played both sides during vanilla, and wouldn't go back to alliance after playing horde.

Khane said:

Haha look at how boring that fight looks compared to today's raid bosses. Dude even has time to just sit there and type shit because you never even need to move for half the fight. Wasn't there a bug during the first few Rag kills that made Rogues do idiotically high damage with ranged weapons?

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Thinking back I remember it being a lot more hectic, controlling all the add spawns, and folks constantly facing death from the damage output vs healing throughput, especially with 40 people and no raid frames with the default UI. As a mage, it was a bit of an epiphany when we realized threat was a nonfactor for ranged (after every fight prior being critical). Then the corralling of adds for aoe, maintaining distance between players (without a range finder add on), making sure you didn't get knocked back into the lava, or melee dps backing up during the splash attack.

Other than that, as a dps you were spamming one button for most of the fight.

There was a lot of subtlety that's not visible, unlike the DDR that is the primary mechanic of most modern encounters, with an infinitely higher requirement on each individual (not that there weren't individual requirements then, but it was mostly just farming requirements for potions, or having Firstaid leveled, lol).

I don't doubt it. Especially with the level of complexity of add-ons completely nullifying significant aspects. It'll be the Hydraxian rep, cleansing runes, and having enough gear to get past Majordomo. Then it'll be getting enough people cloaks for Nefarian. Nax will be the big gear brickwall. But classic servers have been around for a decade, and folks have pretty much optimized everything already.

Rest assured, I will definitely be running the bomb into the group on Baron.

By the time 1.12 came around, Rag was just a loot bag for who was gonna get the next Spinal, Perdition, or Eye...

VANILLA MEMORY THREE HUNDRED FIFTY TWO:

Saving Ony heads to drop in org for the buff for the first few serious Nefarian attempts.

a c i d.f l y said:

Judgement of Salvation, and fuck that because it took up a debuff slot and only benefitted mages, warlocks and hunters, and also if you were a paladin, ret and meleeing the boss gtfo. It was healers that primarily had to manage mana. The maintenance of throughput, threat, and mana management was the whole thing. A strong tank meant you could just spam Healing Touch rank 4 as a druid with zero mana/threat issues. Mage would also OOM or pull threat regardless of mana regen if they were dumping spells on a boss.

At peak gear the buffs of shaman vs paladin came down to kings vs windfury/air (for hunters). Shaman also had the conflict of element between totem use - water was mana regen, healing, and fire resistance, air was windfury, air, tranquil...

It was a lot more complicated than a lot of flat statement folks ("one is clearly better") remember. Kings certainly helped early on by giving a lot more Hp and reduced threat risk of dps for nongeared tanks, but long term shaman was a lot more versatile in raids. I played both sides during vanilla, and wouldn't go back to alliance after playing horde.

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Pretty sure you could just auto the boss inbetween heals as holy, just had to stay in melee range. Debuff slots weren't an issue as far as I remember once they extended them either, unless you had affliction locks shitting up the debuffs with their garbage dots instead of spamming shadowbolts for the entire fight.

Anyway wasn't talking shaman/pld, was just saying as far as I remember for hunters to be viable in naxx, they needed the pld mana debuff thing because they consumed mana too much to sustain properly even chugging pots on a lot of the fights, which made it so horde hunters had to drink to regen, while alliance hunters didn't. Didn't mean alliance was better, I think by AQ horde was pulling ahead a fair bit, you just had to juggle these shamans around every raid and good luck raiding with less than 4 shamans, which was annoying as fuck since not that many people wanted to play shaman. But once you had enough locks soulstoning your fury warriors with windfury so they could threat "reset", it was definitely a lot of damage going out with all the additional rage fuelling heroic strike on every auto and shit. Playing fury in AQ40 or higher gear with a shaman in the party was a lot of fun, probably one of the more interesting classes since you had a lot of buttons to spam, unlike most other classes in the game at that point in time.

Kaige said:

Baron Geddon was the only exciting fight in Molten Core.

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Hope you mean because of trying to blow up guildmates with the bomb, because the fight was fucking boring as shit if you took it seriously, just like everything in MC and most of BWL other than Nef and Vaal(and I guess Chromaggus was funny sometimes in a similar way to Geddon, "oh look it just turned fire 30secs into the fight, now it's going to kill all the mages, have fun repositionning it warriors").

Honestly just thinking of how MC was is a good enough reason for me to not bother playing this. The amount of trash and the terrible fights, fuck that noise.