World of Warcraft: Classic

Binks · Mar 19, 2019

Random thoughts:

Despite the nostalgia and bullshitting in chat, I had this linked to me and it seemed to touch on what some of the old-timers in my cohort are going through over this:

For some: work, gym, obligations, and life kind of cast a pallor over possibly enjoying classic WoW. Especially knowing well the amount of tediousness associated with that era.

The pragmatics of fielding a 40-man raid also seems worse as turnover might be higher:

been there done that
why am I doing this again
new shiny games

(Always be recruiting... mostly good people)

Leadsalad · Mar 19, 2019

I expect turnover to be brutal after guilds fail to down all the content the first two weeks it’s out.

Chanur · Mar 19, 2019

Boom classicish AV!! This was one of the most important things I wanted. I liked the buffed NPCS but honestly not having reinforcements was the most important part for me.

Alterac Valley in Classic

This is a subject that has been asked about several times recently, and we want to clarify some of the details surrounding it. Like many aspects of the game, Alterac Valley was tuned and adjusted in different ways from patch to patch in 2005-2006. First and foremost, we’re planning to use the...

us.forums.blizzard.com

First and foremost, we’re planning to use the 1.12 version of Alterac Valley. For many parts of the game like this, we’re picking an original WoW patch that gives us the most clarity for WoW: Classic, and 1.12 is that patch.

In Alterac Valley, that puts us before the introduction of reinforcements. It puts us before the removal of all of the Commanders and Lieutenants. The only win conditions are the killing of Drek’thar in Frostwolf Keep or Vanndar Stormpike in Dun Baldar.

It gives us several early improvements to the BG that we’re glad to have in place. Early on in AV, there were too many NPCs and they were too hard to kill. By 1.12, many had been removed and NPC health was brought down to a reasonable level. Turning in armor scraps is an encouraged, supportive activity by this point. Many capture points (mostly graveyards) had been moved away from their initial placements to gain better balance across the map. Korak the Bloodrager was removed, and killing opposing players no longer drops items like Dwarf Spines, Orc Teeth, or Human Bone Chips. Gross.

BoozeCube · Mar 19, 2019

Binks said:
Random thoughts:

Despite the nostalgia and bullshitting in chat, I had this linked to me and it seemed to touch on what some of the old-timers in my cohort are going through over this:

For some: work, gym, obligations, and life kind of cast a pallor over possibly enjoying classic WoW. Especially knowing well the amount of tediousness associated with that era.

The pragmatics of fielding a 40-man raid also seems worse as turnover might be higher:

been there done that

why am I doing this again

new shiny games

(Always be recruiting... mostly good people)

Well I have good news for you. If the time commitment is to much then simply don't bother playing it. You have current WoW in all of it's jacked up dogshit glory that has been customized perfectly for people who are old-timers and simply don't have the time anymore.

This isn't the first time this example has come up and really the best answer should be instead of trying to make MMORPG's shitty to adapt to that guy who doesn't have time, they should be what they are MMORPG's and just accept that some people can't make the time commitment for them. Otherwise we end up with Themepark 30 minute ride MMO's, fuck I want a goddamn 3 hour dungeon like BRM that is a winding chasm covering multiple level ranges, various quests and shit, and honestly isn't even meant to be done in one sitting.

I would rather they design a good experience not taking into account this notion of what Sando_01 has to do 30 minutes from now otherwise we end up with Hallway McDungeons like we have.

Torrid · Mar 19, 2019

1.11 and 1.12 were the patches where AV turned into races instead of PvP. Blizzard devs-- because they didn't PvP-- didn't understand that tough NPCs ENCOURAGED PvP because they prevented General races. Tough NPCs died quickly vs. 30+ mobs of players regardless. This got even worse mid-BC when they got rid of half the warmasters. (boy did that piss me off)

I did little beyond BG PvP, so AV not being a General race is perhaps my #1 concern. FUCK AV RACES. I'd rather lose every 8 hour instance than win most games in a 5 minute race meta where games ended with all of 10 PKs. It was game development malpractice to allow the gameplay to devolve into that. I don't PvP to make a number get larger; I PvP to murder Alliance scum who are all played by obnoxious children, vain women and men who whose girlfriends dictate what faction they play. If AV turns into General races in Classic, I will unsub. (unless I find like-minded Horde to team up with that also wants to wipe Alliance at Galvangar and piss off everybody there by turning the game into an 8 hour instance. God that was fun)

Although Horde did have a trick/exploit: we could pull the marshals out of Vanndar's room and kite them a bit, then pull Vanndar near the entrance out of aggro radius of the leashed guards, who would just sit there unaggro if nobody got close to them. I can't remember if Alliance could do this or if it was harder for them to do. It was just much easier for them to take the base to begin with that they could kill warmasters and still win most of the time.

Burren · Mar 19, 2019

Binks said:
Random thoughts:

Despite the nostalgia and bullshitting in chat, I had this linked to me and it seemed to touch on what some of the old-timers in my cohort are going through over this:

For some: work, gym, obligations, and life kind of cast a pallor over possibly enjoying classic WoW. Especially knowing well the amount of tediousness associated with that era.

The pragmatics of fielding a 40-man raid also seems worse as turnover might be higher:

been there done that

why am I doing this again

new shiny games

(Always be recruiting... mostly good people)

So....like making a decision on every other thing an adult has to decide upon, ever? People need to get a damn grip. It's a GAME. If you can't figure out how to have fun and its this distressing for someone to decide, then there's a deeper issue.

Lunis · Mar 19, 2019

Even classic you can play in 2 hour spurts. Unless you want to be in a high end raiding guild there's really not a lot of commitment.

a c i d.f l y · Mar 19, 2019

Torrid said:
1.11 and 1.12 were the patches where AV turned into races instead of PvP. Blizzard devs-- because they didn't PvP-- didn't understand that tough NPCs ENCOURAGED PvP because they prevented General races. Tough NPCs died quickly vs. 30+ mobs of players regardless. This got even worse mid-BC when they got rid of half the warmasters. (boy did that piss me off)

I did little beyond BG PvP, so AV not being a General race is perhaps my #1 concern. FUCK AV RACES. I'd rather lose every 8 hour instance than win most games in a 5 minute race meta where games ended with all of 10 PKs. It was game development malpractice to allow the gameplay to devolve into that. I don't PvP to make a number get larger; I PvP to murder Alliance scum who are all played by obnoxious children, vain women and men who whose girlfriends dictate what faction they play. If AV turns into General races in Classic, I will unsub. (unless I find like-minded Horde to team up with that also wants to wipe Alliance at Galvangar and piss off everybody there by turning the game into an 8 hour instance. God that was fun)

Although Horde did have a trick/exploit: we could pull the marshals out of Vanndar's room and kite them a bit, then pull Vanndar near the entrance out of aggro radius of the leashed guards, who would just sit there unaggro if nobody got close to them. I can't remember if Alliance could do this or if it was harder for them to do. It was just much easier for them to take the base to begin with that they could kill warmasters and still win most of the time.

As much as it was loathed for whatever reason, I loved spending an hour in AV at the Alliance base killing mobs, holding named mobs, wrecking players in the process, while a focused group took on the General. That was pvp. AV was converted to a PVE race much like a Warfront, but with pretend pvp. I'm 300% surprised AV wasn't converted to a Warfront. It's not too late...

What they fixed with AV wasn't the problem. They fixed it in a way that the problem shifted. Rewards for effort were the problem. They "fixed" it by making the existing rewards of honor relative to the time investment. A 5m match with 2000 honor? Perfect! Totally washes the point of things, which is the engagement.

They had so many things planned that never panned out. Like resource gathering, really trying to capture that Warcraft feeling in an MMO. They failed again with Warfronts. That shit sounded intriguing, but ended up just being another race for the boss to get my charity 400 ilvl item. On horde for the dark shore encounter, they don't even complete the objectives because it's faster to just drill down the giant trees manually, rather than collect trees and ore to build catapults that travel at the speed of a dead horse...

Simplification is literally the cancer that Blizzard has been utilizing and fighting at the same time. Sterilization is another good word for what is modern Warcraft.

a c i d.f l y · Mar 19, 2019

Binks said:
Random thoughts:

Despite the nostalgia and bullshitting in chat, I had this linked to me and it seemed to touch on what some of the old-timers in my cohort are going through over this:

For some: work, gym, obligations, and life kind of cast a pallor over possibly enjoying classic WoW. Especially knowing well the amount of tediousness associated with that era.

The pragmatics of fielding a 40-man raid also seems worse as turnover might be higher:

been there done that

why am I doing this again

new shiny games

(Always be recruiting... mostly good people)

Dude... Playing Classic wow today vs playing it 15 years ago is completely different. Especially on the 1.12 patch. The time investment is nonexistent compared to what you had to put in during 1.1-1.5. You're going to hit 60 a lot faster, you know where items can be sourced, you have addons that will literally walk you through the fastest leveling experience, you have addons that will tell you where your next best drop is, resources for the best leveling or raiding builds... All of the boss encounters are ridiculously detailed now. If you fail, God you're fucking awful. Mechanics in vanilla were all position based.

I fully expect to be able to play it passively in my free time and at least be able to participate in Nax runs on the pure fact that I'm a warm body that's attuned. There won't be 8 hour, daily raiding requirements. I'll bet my wife's left tit that the first MC clear will happen with less than 40 people running greens and blues, within a week or two of release. As long as you can keep your tank alive, there were no rage timers (outside mechanic based timers like the first two bosses in BWL).

a c i d.f l y · Mar 19, 2019

If they want folks to go through an authentic experience, they should add arbitrary player queues, server crashes, and loot lag.

Torrid · Mar 19, 2019

I once got a suspension for saying something highly inflammatory to a guy who was sitting at an alliance held graveyard and instead of taking the graveyard, would allow the NPCs to respawn and kill them over and over to farm cloth. When I clicked the banner as I rode by, he complained to me, which prompted some expletives that he reported.

It's ridiculous that graveyard NPCs were made soloable. (and dropped cloth)

Yes, being one of the very few holed up in Drek's room trying to give Alliance headaches was kind of fun; as was being a ninja taking back graveyards while they were wiping etc. But some of my favorite memories of the game were of my hunter with the S3 bow (God bless you Hobb and Censura for helping me attain that) just mowing people down in large AV battles. If AV isn't 'functional' as a PvP battleground, then there is no large scale PvP option.

Malakriss · Mar 19, 2019

Imagine the fun if Night Elf Mages were allowed in vanilla. Shadowmeld, motherf@%$er

Warmuth · Mar 20, 2019

I wanted to come back for some actual old school AV. Not having the original version is disappointing to me. I was never all that optimistic about it though, the original version of that place is the exact antithesis of the current dev philosophy. It’s probably a small miracle they aren’t trying to fuck with the 1.12 version.

Chanur · Mar 20, 2019

They likely don't have the original version of AV anymore and would have to build it. I think its a matter of where to spend the resources.

Creslin · Mar 20, 2019

Chanur said:
They likely don't have the original version of AV anymore and would have to build it. I think its a matter of where to spend the resources.

lol That is the oldest dev lie in the book. Oh sorry we don’t have the original anymore!

1.12 av sucked and lacked all the character of th original zone. It’s not close to classic pretty sure they had removed like all the quests by then too

Chanur · Mar 20, 2019

Creslin said:
lol That is the oldest dev lie in the book. Oh sorry we don’t have the original anymore!

1.12 av sucked and lacked all the character of th original zone. It’s not close to classic pretty sure they had removed like all the quests by then too

Could be a lie but the first patch they said they had that was complete was version 1.9 . The previous versions had things missing. I am guessing AV was part of that.

Warmuth · Mar 20, 2019

Chanur said:
They likely don't have the original version of AV anymore and would have to build it. I think its a matter of where to spend the resources.

I have zero problem with them investing resources into AV. It’s unrealistic to expect them to do it, sure, but nothing in the game since the original AV has even come close to being as epic and chaotic. It was damn near to having dynamic content since it was in a different state every time you logged in and “strats” could only take you so far since npc’s were pretty rapey and you couldn’t just ninja objectives. Maybe 1.12 was still that way, I don’t remember what different patches were like but I do remember being bummed every time they removed stuff from there.

BoozeCube · Mar 20, 2019

Warmuth said:
I have zero problem with them investing resources into AV. It’s unrealistic to expect them to do it, sure, but nothing in the game since the original AV has even come close to being as epic and chaotic. It was damn near to having dynamic content since it was in a different state every time you logged in and “strats” could only take you so far since npc’s were pretty rapey and you couldn’t just ninja objectives. Maybe 1.12 was still that way, I don’t remember what different patches were like but I do remember being bummed every time they removed stuff from there.

I doubt they have the staff remaining that even understands why people enjoyed the old AV. They need to bring back Korrak right in the middle of the field of strife ready to buttrape anyone who comes close enough to him, also we need a constant stream of noobs begging for help to kill him to get their. Plus you could get that shit at Level 51.

Ice Barbed Spear

Ice Barbed Spear is a rare two-handed polearm. It gives a bonus to strength, agility, and stamina. It has a natural blue icy weapon glow.

wow.gamepedia.com

Bloodseeker

Bloodseeker is a crossbow ranged weapon.

wow.gamepedia.com

People also forget that the waves of wolfriders and shit you could get from turning in stuff was actually a big solid group of NPC's and could assist in a charge pushing the other faction back on their asses. Fuck I bet 99% of players today even know that they can summon those, let alone the shaman elemental boss fucker who would ROFL stomp alliance. I don't remember if 1.12 still allowed knockbacks but if you had that hammer from MC or the unstoppable force you could bat dick pirates off the bridge heading into the alliance base causing them to fall to their death. Of course in typical Bliz fashion they acted like smarmy cocksuckers about it and removed the knockback to replace with a stun.

The more I think about it MMORPG's are more fun with random crazy items instead of the sterilized bullshit they put forth now.

Chanur · Mar 20, 2019

Pretty sure all of that is still in there. The difference is at 2 hours i think Korrak spawned automatically, and it works different in 1.12 but I am not sure. I think you have to turn things in. 1.12 has the mostly non elite NPC's but the only way to win is by killing the General, there is no reinforcements. So its still way closer to original than the garbage these days.

Adebisi · Mar 20, 2019

Remembering the battles at the bridge choke in the northern alliance part of the map.

Lawdy lawd

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