World of Warcraft: Current Year

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Drat

Golden Knight of the Realm
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What is the deal with Ret paladins these days? It seems the difference between the good ones and the bad ones is massive. You have the ones that don't even out dps the the tank to the one that is spike to huge numbers. Gear selection, talent selection, or simply a learn to play issue?
 
Sumdain x

Sumdain x

Trakanon Raider
1,549
483
Deathwing said:
Are you sure you're not reading the dps weights? My sims put vers and ac far above the other stats.
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i am not a good theorycrafter, but one of the better known warrior community numbers guys put up some interesting charts in discord.

he went entirely haste/mastery and then entirely versatility (as best you can) and the sims were within 5-10% of each other. something the stat weights dont lead you to believe. the difference was over the fight with haste/mastery your damage taken is normalized with no spikes where as with versatility you had the tendacy to take spikes here and there (but slightly lower damage overall). both sims had about 10% margin of error as well. in other words, inconclusive even though the stat weights show versatility is better than everything else.

Scogun from Method has been stacking haste, and then taking mastery/vers where available http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/tarren-mill/Scogun/simple (normally he was running with nightmare egg shell in trinket spot instead of the stun trinket that is useful for 5 mans)
and i cant remember the name but the Russian guild that downed xavius first was stacking vers.
 
A

a_skeleton_02

<Banned>
8,130
14,248
Brikker said:
You can raid LFR @a_skeleton_02, all the wings (bosses) should be open now I think.

I'm still enjoying Legion a lot but the gearing/itemization is pretty whack. Too much RNG and too much needing to SIM shit to determine if it's actually an upgrade. As it is, I run Simcraft for a Pawn string and equip shit based off Pawn telling me it's an upgrade, then I sim again with the new item(s) to see if it actually upped DPS. For instance, I got an 865 cloak off J'im with crit/vers, my worst two secondary stats; it would replace an 855 cloak with mastery/haste, my best two. The AGI upgrade from 10 ilvls might be an overall DPS upgrade (and Pawn says it is by a small amount) but it might not actually up my DPS =/ Too much reliance on Sims for this shit.

Trinkets are just a whole pain in the ass on their own. Literally have to sim every combo of trinkets I have to see what is best (and according to Simcraft, my best single target trinket are the 835/830 agi/haste WQ trinkets I had, but I use one of those and an 840 mastery/AE proc one instead).
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I've been told that LFR raid isn't the way to go and it's to chain run heroics till 840.

Also make sure I do the world quests every day.

I finally finished my stupid time locked shaman quest today (do 5 fireland follower quests)
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
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Sumdain x said:
i am not a good theorycrafter, but one of the better known warrior community numbers guys put up some interesting charts in discord.

he went entirely haste/mastery and then entirely versatility (as best you can) and the sims were within 5-10% of each other. something the stat weights dont lead you to believe. the difference was over the fight with haste/mastery your damage taken is normalized with no spikes where as with versatility you had the tendacy to take spikes here and there (but slightly lower damage overall). both sims had about 10% margin of error as well. in other words, inconclusive even though the stat weights show versatility is better than everything else.

Scogun from Method has been stacking haste, and then taking mastery/vers where available http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/tarren-mill/Scogun/simple (normally he was running with nightmare egg shell in trinket spot instead of the stun trinket that is useful for 5 mans)
and i cant remember the name but the Russian guild that downed xavius first was stacking vers.
Click to expand...

Stat weights saying X is much much better and results only panning out with a 5-10% difference is not completely separate scenarios. Gearing limitations restrict how much you can exploit versatility. Notice how no one bothers even recommending stacking AC because you just plain can't.

So, it comes down to the same conclusion you arrived at: spikier damage or somewhat more damage taken overall. I go with versatility because it's dependable. 100% shield block is still at the mercy of devastate and does nothing for magic damage.
 
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Sumdain x

Sumdain x

Trakanon Raider
1,549
483
Deathwing said:
Stat weights saying X is much much better and results only panning out with a 5-10% difference is not completely separate scenarios. Gearing limitations restrict how much you can exploit versatility. Notice how no one bothers even recommending stacking AC because you just plain can't.

So, it comes down to the same conclusion you arrived at: spikier damage or somewhat less damage taken overall. I go with versatility because it's dependable. 100% shield block is still at the mercy of devastate and does nothing for magic damage.
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Spikier damage AND slightly less taken, or Less spiky and predictable and slightly higher damage. i was at 18% versatility until we hit heroic EN, and ive noticed a difference in swapping some of my pieces around ive gained 10% mastery, 10% haste and lost 8-9% vers. Like you said the gear for vers isn't really there, maybe 2-3 pieces in all of EN that have vers and a desirable secondary stat.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
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PSA: Not all trinkets and legendaries are working correctly in sims. So, uh, just hold on to trinkets, and don't trust the 19M profiles.
 
Xexx

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
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Gf keeps telling me to stop chasing the legendary, and i keep giving her the "bitch are you crazy?" look. Just when i finally decide to ease up on chaining mythics and mythic+ a guildy gets his second.

The hell with you RNGeezus
 
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Cinge

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Guild mate got his bis one, then 2 nyth kills in a row(one mythic and then heroic the next week) he got two more. All in the span of less than a week.
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
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Drat said:
What is the deal with Ret paladins these days? It seems the difference between the good ones and the bad ones is massive. You have the ones that don't even out dps the the tank to the one that is spike to huge numbers. Gear selection, talent selection, or simply a learn to play issue?
Click to expand...

If paladins are using their skills while not at max holy power they are completely gimping themselves.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

<Bronze Donator>
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Drat said:
What is the deal with Ret paladins these days? It seems the difference between the good ones and the bad ones is massive. You have the ones that don't even out dps the the tank to the one that is spike to huge numbers. Gear selection, talent selection, or simply a learn to play issue?
Click to expand...
We have two in our mythic core, I consider them both really good players. One has a survivability legendary that has made him not able to be killed. He never dies in our fights...ever. And that ability to just stand in shit had rocketed him to the top of our meters on the more single target, shorter fights. He's well ahead of the other Pally that is also a really good player.

I think the legendary items were really poorly implemented. The DPS one especially. You can look at warcraftlogs and see that the only way you're ever going to parse orange or above is with one and there's extreme examples like the fire mage bracers being a 100k single target DPS increase.

Blizzard is pretty good at not letting imbalances like this remain for long and I would guess at some point we get some quest line to to choose a legendary, but in the current state of the game, a guild that has gotten lucky with their DPS legendary drops will have a much easier time progressing than one that hasn't.


To answer your question more specifically though...there's a lot of paladins. They're always one of the most played classes. And most people just aren't good at this game.
 
Xexx

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,474
1,664
Cinge said:
Guild mate got his bis one, then 2 nyth kills in a row(one mythic and then heroic the next week) he got two more. All in the span of less than a week.
Click to expand...

Because Bliz is just stupid, and no other way to really put it other than that. On top of having multiple "bad" items per spec on list, and i dont use "bad" loosely either, just pure shit unless purely meant for PVP and in that case they should only drop in pvp. However that aside whatever measure they are claiming to use for people to actually acquire their first is likely not working as intended still.

Im very salty, i could be any other flavor but i chose this one!
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
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Slaythe said:
Blizzard is pretty good at not letting imbalances like this remain for long and I would guess at some point we get some quest line to to choose a legendary, but in the current state of the game, a guild that has gotten lucky with their DPS legendary drops will have a much easier time progressing than one that hasn't.
Click to expand...

In 7.1 there is a questline to get a legendary for people that never got them. Still a bit away though..
 
Cinge

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,037
2,113
Slaythe said:
We have two in our mythic core, I consider them both really good players. One has a survivability legendary that has made him not able to be killed. He never dies in our fights...ever. And that ability to just stand in shit had rocketed him to the top of our meters on the more single target, shorter fights. He's well ahead of the other Pally that is also a really good player.

I think the legendary items were really poorly implemented. The DPS one especially. You can look at warcraftlogs and see that the only way you're ever going to parse orange or above is with one and there's extreme examples like the fire mage bracers being a 100k single target DPS increase.

Blizzard is pretty good at not letting imbalances like this remain for long and I would guess at some point we get some quest line to to choose a legendary, but in the current state of the game, a guild that has gotten lucky with their DPS legendary drops will have a much easier time progressing than one that hasn't.


To answer your question more specifically though...there's a lot of paladins. They're always one of the most played classes. And most people just aren't good at this game.
Click to expand...

That's my one complaint about them. DPS ones are huge and if you don't have them you log noticeably behind your peers that do and there's nothing you can do to keep up. Its going to be even worse after this week as people start wearing 2 legendaries and for some classes that is going to be huge(like fire mage, bracers + hero/lust ring = 140kish dps increase).

My DK is 870, but I have shitty CC ring legendary. Which only game me about 250 crit and 140ish haste increase from my illvl 850 ring and 15% haste every 1.5 minutes(due to pet stun). My fellow DK is 869 but has bracers, so he consistently pulls 40-50k more then me and there is nothing I can do about it and he will be wearing bracers/good-ring when his upgrade finishes which will give him a even greater boost.
 
Kuro

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Retribution Paladins get better the more retarded the average raid member is, since they get them sweet sweet retribution buffs each time someone stands in too much shit.
 
Brikker

Brikker

Trump's Staff
6,142
4,524
a_skeleton_02 said:
I've been told that LFR raid isn't the way to go and it's to chain run heroics till 840.

Also make sure I do the world quests every day.

I finally finished my stupid time locked shaman quest today (do 5 fireland follower quests)
Click to expand...

Always do LFR every week. It can drop ILVL 895 gear and has a higher chance of dropping a legendary than something like Heroics. Shit is faceroll easy, doesn't take long, and queues are pretty fast as dps.

For World Quests: everyone does it a bit differently it seems. I do the emissary bags (which you can do daily or not; they are saved for 3 days before you'll "lose" one), then I do any items daily (for chance of titanforge proc). I stopped doing Artifact Power ones (outside of doing them as 1 of the 4 needed for emissary quest) since there's no real reason to grind that out at a certain point. I do order hall resources as needed (I buy the extra roll Seals with my OR usually, so that's 7k/week for em).
 
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