Dandai
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 5,918
- 4,503
They've only stated that they're 25% complete with the new models. Apparently they haven't been working on them much.
World of Warcraft: Current Year
- Thread starter hodj
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Hekotat
FoH nuclear response team
- 12,244
- 11,893
Damn, no shit. Seems like they've been "working on them" since fucking Wrath.
Dandai
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 5,918
- 4,503
In an interview last week, GC said that this is a lesson on talking about things too early. They had mentioned that they were working on them around Cata launch but they weren't really. They've only recently been putting a lot of resources towards them. There's a lot of work that goes into them that isn't necessarily obvious at first glance - animating finger bones, facial expressions, the huge number of emotes, etc. It's not just higher poly 3D models.
In any case, I'm betting on new models being among the list of the next expansion's features. I do wonder if they'll do what EQ did and allow you to use the old or the new model as you see fit. They're really worried about changing them, and one dude said that when they talk about them one of the devs tells the obligatory story of someone on the forums who bitched about their human not blinking properly after they updated a certain face model. That player quit the game because of it...
In any case, I'm betting on new models being among the list of the next expansion's features. I do wonder if they'll do what EQ did and allow you to use the old or the new model as you see fit. They're really worried about changing them, and one dude said that when they talk about them one of the devs tells the obligatory story of someone on the forums who bitched about their human not blinking properly after they updated a certain face model. That player quit the game because of it...
Yes, it was a blast.
I enjoyed it despite it's simplicity, because this is what you do in MMO's. I'm not going to go Dumar on this thread and I think Ulduar was the best raid the game has ever produced, but to suggest you have to be wearing Rose-tinted glasses to remember enjoying vanilla WoW is some serious retardation. Why the fuck did we all play it then? If things are so much better now, why do I have no desire to play WoW anymore?
GonzytheMage
Golden Knight of the Realm
- 627
- 102
The gameplay at the highest end takes so much focus and endurance most sane people only dabble in it. It's a game ment for enjoyment and different people enjoy different things. Some people really like having their nuts in a vice and some people just like the weekend missionary romp. Vanilla was more like nailing a girl you've been dating a while, and the current game is going David Caradine. You can only do so much before you strangle yourself.
Ryoz
<Donor>
- 845
- 194
Because you don't have friends. Gaming friends. More than likely the people you used to enjoy playing with don't play anymore. The thought of venturing into wow to try and make new friends makes you incredibly uneasy and you realize the people you did enjoy playing with we're unique and there's no way you'll ever find such an ecclectic bunch that don't suck at the game.
I didn't find an ecclectic bunch that didn't suck at the game back then either. The game was much easier from a skill standpoint, if not a time consumption standpoint. The question is are we better off now?
Although I wasn't asking a question as much as making a statement, and that statement was you are an idiot if you don't think WoW was fun in Vanilla.
I guess you could make the argument that the game is worse now because it's harder to find an engaging group of players to complete content with. Some of this is the age of the game, but some of it is design decisions that practically discourage you from making an effort to form that group.
GonzytheMage
Golden Knight of the Realm
- 627
- 102
Im having more fun now aswell its just a different kind of fun. Im rank 8 with the brawlers guild , i have three characters in lfr, one casual raid crew, mount farming, fucking dailies everywhere , and some ah play while Im at work. its enough to keep me and the baby occupied.
GonzytheMage
Golden Knight of the Realm
- 627
- 102
And this. Seems like as much bitching as we do about people we should all get together in a retired old fuckers who still got game clique.
Juvarisx
Florida
- 3,888
- 4,089
Don't dismiss me saying that as me saying I did not enjoy raiding at all, because I did. Did I enjoy the fights? Some, Kel'Thuzad was a load of fun in Vanilla, I also enjoyed Nef, Twin Emps, Gluth and Heigan a lot. I think I had most fun because since the fights were not overly complicated in comparison to today I got to enjoy the company of some very cool people who these days would be more of a burden on a raid group. I enjoy the fights more now, but I enjoyed the raiding atmosphere more then.
Still fuck Chromaggus, i was so over decursive in MC I was so mad to see it required again in BWL.
Vanilla wow is still the pinnacle of my WoW experience. TBC was very close, and why? Because both expansions had raid zones that only a small population could get into, so I was *always* experiencing more of the content than anyone else, with people I liked and felt a kinship with.
That doesn't mean I'd want to return to that, and I try to be very realistic about how I felt in those eras. What got me wasn't often the game - it was the people, what we could accomplish, what we could do, what you relied on others for. (And in vanilla that was about 35-39 other people in your raid group.)
Do I think you suck if you go on and on about how great vanilla was? No. Do I think that, like an old relationship, you only remember the good, and ignore all of the bad? Yes. Do I think, that as an older MMO player now (I was 14 when I was playing UO/EQ) if you asked me to play vanilla wow/eq I'd laugh hysterically? Absolutely.
Those games/eras were great, but I wouldn't go back to it, because of what I was expected to do (Maintain precise gear levels, raid a bunch, farm endlessly, keep peace with 39 other people etc) and because of the fact that, well frankly, difficulty and "awesomeness" were monikers thrown onto things amongst the same group of people (raiders) but meant little outside of that circle and have been surpassed by current content.
I don't blame you for having no desire to play wow now. I barely want to, and even though things like raiding/factions etc have gotten better, what kept you in the game is gone. The novelty of a new game, the people you met and raided with (My old vanilla guild had people I knew from fucking EQ in it - my CURRENT WoW guild also has people from EQ in it) the things you're willing to do to play like you used to. (Like skipping work, or staying home all week and subsisting on instant coffee and delivered pizzas, ignoring term papers and phone calls from friends because that ABSOLUTELY happened. I'm in an all weekend hate raid, pretend I DIED and don't talk to me until Monday.)
You had to rely on others, you had to form friendships and alliances, you had to talk to people, and whether you realized it or not you were a part of a very specific community, because you were X server and if you ever played on Y server you understand that THOSE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. But we're older now - most of us don't have time for it, or don't have the inclination for it. We bought a game, we want to play it. And that sort of changes what we know about the MMO genre, because what we used to do to get anywhere is now changed into more personal responsibility, and game changes that allow you to take leaps in content that you previously couldn't. And they were NECESSARY, because the old guys that still want the old WoW don't want to put the "old" work in, and without the "old" work, you cannot have the "old" wow. And because few people still want to play like it's vanilla wow, you must integrate things to still accomplish the (relatively) same thing. (An actual end game.)
The "game" portion of wow got better, but we all know that the very large reason people stick around are things like communities, and your impact on the world, and how involved you have to be in it to accomplish things. THAT all changed for the worse, and in an MMO what got people into it was the massive part that interwove with interaction amongst those masses.
It's why i harped on Vgrade so much; because what he remembers being awesome is still awesome, it's just that EVERYTHING around it has changed, to the point where it no longer means anything. You still have different gear if you're doing the "most hardcore" of content - that hasn't changed, but the community has. I don't even think i know anyone outside of my guild on my current server. I imagine it's very similar for the other people who might once have been in awe of my gear.
Essentially, WoW made some decisions and design moves that were necessary for the health of the game, but not healthy for the experience of the game. If you can suck up the fact that your golden era is over, you'll be able to dig into better content, and better designed things, but the cost of that is the soul of the game.
And that's why people use the "rose colored" glasses to describe what is going on here. We talk about things like old raids, and old dungeons and old gear etc,but all of that got betterand even those dissenting voices would see that if they took a gander. What changed (and got worse/different) was how we perceive them. It doesn't do anyone any good if you spout off reasons for why you think the game got better/worse andthey're the wrong reasons.
So, what matters now is that you enjoy the content, because you cannot take enjoyment out of the other parts. You have to enjoy the boss battles and the grinding, because that sense of accomplishment that was often granted to you by being a badass on your home server is gone.
If you're killing the shit you want to kill, and you get to upgrade your gear and look awesome and THAT enables you to kill more difficult shit later, then that's all that needs to be done. You have the achievements and the accomplishments and 9-24 of your best bros share the good times with. If you need more than that, WoW is not for you, but to get more than that probably requires more than you want to give anyways.
Edit: Sorry if I rambled, benedryl does weird things to me.
That doesn't mean I'd want to return to that, and I try to be very realistic about how I felt in those eras. What got me wasn't often the game - it was the people, what we could accomplish, what we could do, what you relied on others for. (And in vanilla that was about 35-39 other people in your raid group.)
Do I think you suck if you go on and on about how great vanilla was? No. Do I think that, like an old relationship, you only remember the good, and ignore all of the bad? Yes. Do I think, that as an older MMO player now (I was 14 when I was playing UO/EQ) if you asked me to play vanilla wow/eq I'd laugh hysterically? Absolutely.
Those games/eras were great, but I wouldn't go back to it, because of what I was expected to do (Maintain precise gear levels, raid a bunch, farm endlessly, keep peace with 39 other people etc) and because of the fact that, well frankly, difficulty and "awesomeness" were monikers thrown onto things amongst the same group of people (raiders) but meant little outside of that circle and have been surpassed by current content.
I don't blame you for having no desire to play wow now. I barely want to, and even though things like raiding/factions etc have gotten better, what kept you in the game is gone. The novelty of a new game, the people you met and raided with (My old vanilla guild had people I knew from fucking EQ in it - my CURRENT WoW guild also has people from EQ in it) the things you're willing to do to play like you used to. (Like skipping work, or staying home all week and subsisting on instant coffee and delivered pizzas, ignoring term papers and phone calls from friends because that ABSOLUTELY happened. I'm in an all weekend hate raid, pretend I DIED and don't talk to me until Monday.)
You had to rely on others, you had to form friendships and alliances, you had to talk to people, and whether you realized it or not you were a part of a very specific community, because you were X server and if you ever played on Y server you understand that THOSE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. But we're older now - most of us don't have time for it, or don't have the inclination for it. We bought a game, we want to play it. And that sort of changes what we know about the MMO genre, because what we used to do to get anywhere is now changed into more personal responsibility, and game changes that allow you to take leaps in content that you previously couldn't. And they were NECESSARY, because the old guys that still want the old WoW don't want to put the "old" work in, and without the "old" work, you cannot have the "old" wow. And because few people still want to play like it's vanilla wow, you must integrate things to still accomplish the (relatively) same thing. (An actual end game.)
The "game" portion of wow got better, but we all know that the very large reason people stick around are things like communities, and your impact on the world, and how involved you have to be in it to accomplish things. THAT all changed for the worse, and in an MMO what got people into it was the massive part that interwove with interaction amongst those masses.
It's why i harped on Vgrade so much; because what he remembers being awesome is still awesome, it's just that EVERYTHING around it has changed, to the point where it no longer means anything. You still have different gear if you're doing the "most hardcore" of content - that hasn't changed, but the community has. I don't even think i know anyone outside of my guild on my current server. I imagine it's very similar for the other people who might once have been in awe of my gear.
Essentially, WoW made some decisions and design moves that were necessary for the health of the game, but not healthy for the experience of the game. If you can suck up the fact that your golden era is over, you'll be able to dig into better content, and better designed things, but the cost of that is the soul of the game.
And that's why people use the "rose colored" glasses to describe what is going on here. We talk about things like old raids, and old dungeons and old gear etc,but all of that got betterand even those dissenting voices would see that if they took a gander. What changed (and got worse/different) was how we perceive them. It doesn't do anyone any good if you spout off reasons for why you think the game got better/worse andthey're the wrong reasons.
So, what matters now is that you enjoy the content, because you cannot take enjoyment out of the other parts. You have to enjoy the boss battles and the grinding, because that sense of accomplishment that was often granted to you by being a badass on your home server is gone.
If you're killing the shit you want to kill, and you get to upgrade your gear and look awesome and THAT enables you to kill more difficult shit later, then that's all that needs to be done. You have the achievements and the accomplishments and 9-24 of your best bros share the good times with. If you need more than that, WoW is not for you, but to get more than that probably requires more than you want to give anyways.
Edit: Sorry if I rambled, benedryl does weird things to me.
alavaz
Trakanon Raider
- 2,003
- 714
The one thing about Flex being a separate tier that is nice is that if you are in a progression guild with members who still need gear (i.e. the start of a tier) you can beat your head against a boss for 2 hours on non-flex/heroic, then say fuck it dropping to flex and spend the last hour killing bosses for people who have sub-standard gear without losing your lockout.
GonzytheMage
Golden Knight of the Realm
- 627
- 102