World of Warcraft: Current Year

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Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

Part-Time Sith
<Granularity Engineer>
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6,036
Xequecal said:
TF/WF is the RNG equivalent of AA points. People say they hate RNG but would it actually be better received if they instead just made it where you can +5 ilvl an item of your choice every 25 +10 or higher M+ runs completed?
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This has got to be the single worst WoW vs. EQ comparison I've ever read. I really mean that. Congratulations.

You can farm AA in a predictable fashion, in the same zone/same place, for hours on end if you wish, and you get to choose where the AA points are distributed. You are in control. You can even solo farm AA if you're one of those classes that can do so (and many classes can do so).

You can't farm WF/TF items with any assurance at all, you more than likely can't do it without a full group of like-minded people, and if you are lucky and get something WF/TF to drop, it probably isn't the drop you want or need. You have no control whatsoever and everything is random upon random upon random upon chance. You can bolster that chance by bringing multiple classes that enhance the likelihood of getting the item/type of item that you want, but that's about it.

Not even close to the same thing, no.
 
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xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
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idunno WoD had a better system where instead of just wf/tf they had a currency that would give you +5 and +10 ilvl as an upgrade rather than just pure TF. Was great.
 
kaid

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,647
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xzi said:
idunno WoD had a better system where instead of just wf/tf they had a currency that would give you +5 and +10 ilvl as an upgrade rather than just pure TF. Was great.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is that exists in BfA but it is for the PVP stuff. Once your rank gets high enough you can get an item that can upgrade something to its next bracket. You can also get them from using rerolls.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Yes, I've said it before and I'll say it again. PvP has the loot distribution system everyone wants. They just need to bring it over to the rest of the game.
 
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Neranja

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
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Khane said:
Yes, I've said it before and I'll say it again. PvP has the loot distribution system everyone wants. They just need to bring it over to the rest of the game.
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But I thought the PvPers are unhappy and wanted the vendors back to plan their own progression and target specific items/upgrades?
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
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6,763
Pretty accurate. Only think people are complaining about atm at a high level are pvp vendors because you're at the mercy of RNG so much more than a raider or m+ player is to get something like a weapon, outside of the direct weapon you get from rating like one every several weeks.

The pvp gearing system is extremely good like kaid said for a new character, it's the best way to gear for certain, but it's still super RNG. If they gave vendors back it would be the best way to gear in the game imo. It's not really hard to get 1400 at all which will give you 355/360, which is perfect for casual scrubs like me in BFA
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Apparently I did not understand the conquest system correctly. I thought every time you filled the bar it popped up a new, random reward. Still RNG but the conquest bar is easy to fill. Apparently it's set rewards every week and once you catch up to current it just spits out the same reward over and over. Not as good as I thought but still a much better system (especially because of the upgrade tokens) than anything we have in PvE.

Those upgrade tokens are the perfect answer to the other RNG bullshit. I would love something like that in PvE.

And of course everyone wants the vendors back, because it was the best system we ever had. Can get lucky and get the drop you need and if not you could save up your currency and buy what you were after. That would be the dream. But somewhere along the way Blizzard, and all their apologists, decided that everyone quits unless there is literally an endless treadmill of RNG. That's all bullshit of course, and WoW's longevity is proof itself of that, but hey... Blizzard has the numbers!!! Right guys?
 
kaid

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Well basically the system is designed so you WILL have a full set of that ilevel gear if you do it every week or even if you fall behind you can do multiples in a week if you like me do a batch of arenas and get a bunch of conquest points fast. Its not perfect but at least you know you will at minimum have a full set of 355 gear with at least some control over your stats as you are generally given a couple choices for each one. On top of this doing 500 in a week unlocks your PVP crate thing that is yet another good ilevel item. Also if you do the ranked stuff getting to 1400 as mentioned is not that hard hell I am scrubbing it up in arenas but if you have a healer and a couple DPS you should be able to at least get to 1400.

Basically doing pvp for a few weeks has my druid alt a higher ilevel than my warlock who had a month more playtime in BFA. A bit of RNG luck from the crates and some consistent effort for good results.
 
A

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
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Neranja said:
But I thought the PvPers are unhappy and wanted the vendors back to plan their own progression and target specific items/upgrades?
Click to expand...
Look at this wannabe “gotcha”.

PvP is built around getting to a pretty equal gear state so then it turns into a skill and counters game.

Yes, unless you are guaranteed an exact gearing plan with no deviation, you want vendors even more in PvP than PvE.

It’s like some of you have only ever played a single MMO in your life and never took 30 seconds to look at any reward system in real life or gaming ....
 
F

Flaw

Molten Core Raider
692
261
kaid said:
Holy shit if you have a few friends who like pvp the change to the arena conquest rewards makes that super fast now. My group are not that highly skilled but even with us just muddling through it I managed to get like 1300 conquest saturday. Pretty solid way to get 355 gear on alts and to fill out gearing holes. But getting 35 conquest per win of 3v3 arena is really pretty damn fast.
Click to expand...

They finally caved and upped conquest in 2s from 10 to 25 per win. Not bad, but 3s games typically go faster win or lose.
 
F

Flaw

Molten Core Raider
692
261
Neranja said:
But I thought the PvPers are unhappy and wanted the vendors back to plan their own progression and target specific items/upgrades?
Click to expand...


It would be awesome to have vendors back and Target specific gear. Although, gear in PVP comes so fast that you'll be geared very quickly and the few items you have that aren't best stats aren't going to make much difference. What's going to make the different is skill level, landing CC, avoiding CC, positioning, correct DPS rotations, Mana efficient healing, sneaking drinks, cooldown tracking, etc
 
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F

Flaw

Molten Core Raider
692
261
Khane said:
Apparently I did not understand the conquest system correctly. I thought every time you filled the bar it popped up a new, random reward. Still RNG but the conquest bar is easy to fill. Apparently it's set rewards every week and once you catch up to current it just spits out the same reward over and over. Not as good as I thought but still a much better system (especially because of the upgrade tokens) than anything we have in PvE.

Those upgrade tokens are the perfect answer to the other RNG bullshit. I would love something like that in PvE.

And of course everyone wants the vendors back, because it was the best system we ever had. Can get lucky and get the drop you need and if not you could save up your currency and buy what you were after. That would be the dream. But somewhere along the way Blizzard, and all their apologists, decided that everyone quits unless there is literally an endless treadmill of RNG. That's all bullshit of course, and WoW's longevity is proof itself of that, but hey... Blizzard has the numbers!!! Right guys?
Click to expand...

Once you catch up you won't gain conquest anymore until the following week opens up a new reward. You won't get the most recent one over and over
 
Neranja

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
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a_skeleton_03 said:
Look at this wannabe “gotcha”.

PvP is built around getting to a pretty equal gear state so then it turns into a skill and counters game.
Click to expand...
Let me play some advocatus diaboli here: If that would be truly the end goal, then we could ditch the whole gearing process, especially in structured PvP like arena and battlegrounds and have something like, for example stat templates. In the end we would have class-based combat, just like Overwatch.

Gear acquisition is the only meaningful character progression in WoW at max level. The whole process at the moment seems a bit weird if everyone states his plans how to "get it over with" in the fastest way, so you can "finally play the game". And then? What do you play for once you reached a sufficient gear level? To roflstomp casuals in quest greens? To raid and kill the final raid boss? You can do that in LFR, too.
 
a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
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Gear is a means to an end. There's not just LFR, tho, there's Normal, Heroic, and Mythic, with increasing difficulty and gear requirements. Beyond that it's just Barbie Fashion Dress Up, which is really what gear should be for pvp - cosmetic.
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
Neranja said:
And then? What do you play for once you reached a sufficient gear level? To roflstomp casuals in quest greens? To raid and kill the final raid boss?
Click to expand...

I mean yeah, that's the entire point of gearing

If they made the game even mildly interesting or meaningful before max level then maybe people would have some other opinions but "get it over with to actually play the game" is how it's been for a few expansions now lol. Black Desert is a good example of a game where there's progressions at all points of the game, regardless of gear. However that games RNG is a billion times worse than BFA so maybe it's a shitty comparison.
 
Lodi

Lodi

Blackwing Lair Raider
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The whole gear thing is compounded by the fact that only a handful of specs actually "feel" powerful.

I've tried all of the healers except Resto Druid, at the raid level, and they all feel substantially worse than legion and in general just super awkward.

So, gearing doesn't feel good and neither does playing my class? I'm not sure what I am supposed to look forward to.
 
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A

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
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Neranja said:
Let me play some advocatus diaboli here: If that would be truly the end goal, then we could ditch the whole gearing process, especially in structured PvP like arena and battlegrounds and have something like, for example stat templates. In the end we would have class-based combat, just like Overwatch.

Gear acquisition is the only meaningful character progression in WoW at max level. The whole process at the moment seems a bit weird if everyone states his plans how to "get it over with" in the fastest way, so you can "finally play the game". And then? What do you play for once you reached a sufficient gear level? To roflstomp casuals in quest greens? To raid and kill the final raid boss? You can do that in LFR, too.
Click to expand...
For PvP gear acquisition is designed to be a minor roadblock for you to pay your dues to get to where the "real endgame" for them which requires a fairly even playing field that is based more around skill and group composition.

EDIT: Also as you can see from this thread that if the gear is too easy to get some people will completely leave PvE to get that low lying fruit to then go back and raid with that. It's a delicate balance unless you completely separate the two gear sets.
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Xequecal said:
TF/WF is the RNG equivalent of AA points. People say they hate RNG but would it actually be better received if they instead just made it where you can +5 ilvl an item of your choice every 25 +10 or higher M+ runs completed?
Click to expand...

Seen this suggestion everywhere. It makes sense.

A currency for M is good, but really, that currency should be a Titanforge/Warforge token you can apply to any piece of gear. Set it to 10+ runs only if you are worried about it that much. Would also incentivize going past 10+. Makes a fuckton of sense.

The currency going towards azerite armor does fuckall for me. Im not sure I would farm it. I'll farm M for coins that buy me a magic token to Titanforge/Warforge items though.

Oh well, Blizzard is dumb. Fuck em. Subs already flatlined months ago in BFA.

I'll beunsubbed till January until a viable Titanforge/Warforge farming system is implemented in M10+. Anyone saying otherwise can face the music in the quarterly reports where a whole block of subscriptions are missing.

*flicks toothpick*
 
Lodi

Lodi

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Gearing through PvP is really not an option for Alliance players. Not to say that Horde players are all that great, but Alliance pugs in BGs are astonishingly bad.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
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Are there still queue issues? In the long long ago being Alliance was baller because it was instant everything. Being grossly outnumbered never felt so good.
 
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