World of Warcraft: Current Year

Khane said:

Problem is Mage + DH are pretty much required for an Aff Lock to keep their damage competitive. Aff Locks get hurt so much in groups that use drums because 5% haste is huge for us since it's by far our best ST stat. Every group wants a rogue so that means that the DH needs to be the tank, which is fine, but then you really need that Frost Mage for slow kiting. Even with lock utility it's annoying looking at end of run DPS and seeing mages, rogues, DHs, hunters at 19k and me sitting at 15k. Especially considering how much harder I have to work on trash to get decent damage output. Let me tell you how annoying maintaining agony is on multiple targets when shit is getting knocked around and you're also trying to interrupt, purge and stun when needed. They need to give Demo locks an interrupt or lower felguard stun to 15 seconds or something so I can live the natural cleave good life.

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Yah the disparity between even the six good dps specs is pretty big. Life is pretty simple for me as a tank. I play with my blood dk and prot pally mostly for higher keys but I've managed to ten on guardian and prot warrior as well. I really do need to level my DH now though but never been a fan of their playstyle. So all the tanks can do the relevant content pretty easily right now (tens). They get cut down a little more as you rank up keys for epeen points but I think your total group comp matters more to tank success then the class themselves.

Hell this week I imagine even prot war and guardian could handle a fifteen easily with dh/mage/rogue/lock. Next week is going to be hell though. Teeming/fort/explosive lol.

BoozeCube said:

One of the things I had never liked from Challege Modes, Mythic +, or even Greater Rifts was that it was just time limit based. Everything has to be focused on go go go now now now skip shit most efficient route. To me this is what leads to a good potion of the so called toxicity which I still think it nothing more than a stupid buzzword. Even so I would rather see dungeons based on anything other than time. Maybe number of deaths, ect. I am sure there are many variables one could consider.

The biggest argument I have heard against is that it would trivialize everything if there was no timer. However if there were other metrics to measure by I am not so sure.

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Running into the Grievous affix for the first time I immediately found it to be terribly frustrating for that reason. People weren't willing to give me time to heal stacks and weren't willing to give me time to drink for the privilege of entering fights with five stacks of Grievous and myself with not enough mana to keep going. A couple runs became failures over the unwillingness for players to take their hands off their keyboards for thirty seconds two or three more times than they normally would have to. Their desire to come in under time was so great they did everything they could to make sure that was impossible. "Go very, very quickly" isn't the best lesson to drill into people's heads. Pug healing in Mythic+ is I think the worst kind of healing I've ever been part of in any MMO I've played.

BoozeCube said:

One of the things I had never liked from Challege Modes, Mythic +, or even Greater Rifts was that it was just time limit based. Everything has to be focused on go go go now now now skip shit most efficient route. To me this is what leads to a good potion of the so called toxicity which I still think it nothing more than a stupid buzzword. Even so I would rather see dungeons based on anything other than time. Maybe number of deaths, ect. I am sure there are many variables one could consider.

The biggest argument I have heard against is that it would trivialize everything if there was no timer. However if there were other metrics to measure by I am not so sure.

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There already isn't a timer more or less. People will abandon ship before that but just finishing will give you loot and a new key. I don't think it's productive to lump it all together, to me there was a substantial difference between CMs and gr/m+ now, it's all good as fast as possible but at least CM had some kind of uniformity where competition made sense, it was your strategy and execution that delivered way more than what it is now ilvl + be best class.

BoozeCube said:

One of the things I had never liked from Challege Modes, Mythic +, or even Greater Rifts was that it was just time limit based. Everything has to be focused on go go go now now now skip shit most efficient route. To me this is what leads to a good potion of the so called toxicity which I still think it nothing more than a stupid buzzword. Even so I would rather see dungeons based on anything other than time. Maybe number of deaths, ect. I am sure there are many variables one could consider.

The biggest argument I have heard against is that it would trivialize everything if there was no timer. However if there were other metrics to measure by I am not so sure.

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BoozeCube said:

One of the things I had never liked from Challege Modes, Mythic +, or even Greater Rifts was that it was just time limit based. Everything has to be focused on go go go now now now skip shit most efficient route. To me this is what leads to a good potion of the so called toxicity which I still think it nothing more than a stupid buzzword. Even so I would rather see dungeons based on anything other than time. Maybe number of deaths, ect. I am sure there are many variables one could consider.

The biggest argument I have heard against is that it would trivialize everything if there was no timer. However if there were other metrics to measure by I am not so sure.

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I have no clue what would replace time as the metric for success in a balanced manner. Number of kicks on impactful abilities? Dps or hps numbers? Fewest packs taken to get to the end? I would imagine all of those would bring the same toxic behavior if not more considering you could set up every pull when not under a time restraint.

Number of deaths wouldn't work either in a satisfying way. As things stand at the moment, M+ is a soft gear check and a hard time check. If you removed the time limit then they would be solely a gear check. Can your tank and healer handle a packs damage while your dps avoid taking avoidable damage. You would pull single packs at a time and never alter your pre planning. That would be incredibly boring and frustrating and the cries of "well we could do a 15 but I got fucked over by never getting a weapon drop to get my dps/hps there" would be loud and furious.

Personally I dont really pay attention to the timer. I know that when my group is playing at its skill/gear cap for a key we have roughly seven deaths to spare given the tuning for most keys. Kings rest is an exception. You basically get one wipe or you aren't timing the key. Once we know we took too many deaths we start fucking around and experimenting to see what new pulls we can handle for future runs or if a diff strat would be more effective for our comp on a boss.

Arbitrary

That is just the pain of pugs man. Once you raise your score a bit people actually understand how the trash and affix mechanics function so it does get better.

I just dont want people to get so down on M+. Its pretty much the last kind of real skill expression you see in this game from a pve perspective. The only limit to your progression in the system is your own skill since enough runs will get you the gear to push higher keys. Raiding is bland and more an exercise of getting 20ish people to actually show up. The only time the actual boss fights are a challenge is if you are actually a cutting edge guild in the first month or two.

I like the system, just wish they would make it more like PoE maps where there were items you could buy/use to reroll keys and affixes. Would be a good gold sink to keep the economy in check as well.

I think the kiss or curse system they hinted at would be a good addition. Currently all affixes are like a kick in the balls. Imagine if they added something like your whole group surviving ten stacks of bursting gave a stacking damage and healing buff for x amount of minutes. Would reward players for living on the edge while still allowing players who want to play safe enough time to regularly pass the key. Or something along the lines of x successful kicks in a row gives your tank an aoe silence for x minutes etc. Give groups a chance to balance out the shit stacked against them for exceptional play.

Vimeseh said:

I think the kiss or curse system they hinted at would be a good addition. Currently all affixes are like a kick in the balls. Imagine if they added something like your whole group surviving ten stacks of bursting gave a stacking damage and healing buff for x amount of minutes. Would reward players for living on the edge while still allowing players who want to play safe enough time to regularly pass the key. Or something along the lines of x successful kicks in a row gives your tank an aoe silence for x minutes etc. Give groups a chance to balance out the shit stacked against them for exceptional play.

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They should NBA Jam that shit. Get a stacking fortified buff each time you finish a dungeon in time that resets each day. Give people an incentive to stay grouped and play together.

a c i d.f l y said:

Anyone remember the dungeon 1.5 set from vanilla where you had to finish Undead Stratholme in less than 45 minutes for one of the pieces? Even in T2 gear that was a challenge. Believe we did it with me tanking on my druid in 38 minutes. Why can't they offer shit like this to get upgraded pieces instead of the "do 300 m+ for a currency to purchase a maybe upgrade"...

Tier 0.5 Questline Guide

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Would be fun. I think you have the wrong idea about the currency though. The two known ways to get it right now are a bulk sum in your weekly M+ cache scaling with your highest completed key up to ten and then scrapping azerite pieces which do not drop in m+. So you only have to run one a week if you want the currency from the cache.

Edit Khane

That would be neat too. So many things they could do to give positive rewards for M+ of they really wanted to. Reducing cds on healer cooldowns for x amount of healing done. Saving a caged dragon giving one of your players an action button that nukes one boss for half his health. Would love that one on shark chucker during tyrannical weeks.

a c i d.f l y said:

Anyone remember the dungeon 1.5 set from vanilla where you had to finish Undead Stratholme in less than 45 minutes for one of the pieces? Even in T2 gear that was a challenge. Believe we did it with me tanking on my druid in 38 minutes. Why can't they offer shit like this to get upgraded pieces instead of the "do 300 m+ for a currency to purchase a maybe upgrade"...

Tier 0.5 Questline Guide

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Sorry but that would stray from the do this instance to get this gear and then do it again with mobs having more hp for a slightly better piece of the gear you just got and we'll do this like 12 or 13 times.
That sort of creativity and non linear approach is not welcome here

I honestly would not be surprised if someone created a standalone dungeon runner based on Mythic+/GRift/Maps. So a game like WoW with a small, set amount of classes with MMORPG set ups but no leveling or overworld shit. Just dungeons.

That was pretty much BattleBorn...

Isn't battleborn an FPS?

1st/3rd person (depending on abilities) but less an FPS than Borderlands was.

Think of a game where you start at Max level and are just running dungeons for gear and that's BattleBorn. Just has the added MOBA feel by 'leveling' up in each dungeon as you progress.

I maintain had it not launched at the same time as Overwatch it would have been really successful.

They need to tone down the trash abilities / density as well. Too many skips via pot or rogue because certain trash is just not worth the headache of dealing with, ever.

Vimeseh said:

Personally I dont really pay attention to the timer.

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I've tried minimizing the timer to just focus on what I'm doing and every time someone dies it pops right back up. HEY DID YOU WANT TO SEE THE TIME NOW LET ME SHOW YOU THE TIME.

Being not allowed to keep the fucking thing minimized makes me irrationally angry in a way far beyond people just being derps. Also related - if you don't have all your talents selected and you look at your character sheet the reminder pops back up to tell you that you haven't spent all your talent points.

Calbiyum said:

What's a good way to farm gold in bfa? I have no professions atm could pick up any

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Work overtime and buy gold from Blizzard.