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World of Warcraft: Current Year
- Thread starter hodj
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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Right, people liked Scarlet Monastery so they went off the deep end and made EVERY dungeon like Scarlet Monastery. Sprawling dungeons aren't really all that fun as instanced content anyway though. Sebilis and Chardok were great because it took effort to get to and hold a camp, and if you were successful in getting to the deepest parts of the dungeon you were rewarded for your time and effort (usually). That sense of accomplishment and satisfaction are withdrawn from instanced content. BRD was cool and designed well, but nobody ever really cleared the entire thing. You'd skip as much of it as you could to get to the bosses that dropped your item.
If you can kill, zone out, reset, and kill again that's what people are going to do and designing a sprawling dungeon only makes that process more tedious (aka annoying). TBC moved to winged dungeons because that's what people wanted. I'd love a good dungeon crawl but you can't really make it work in an instanced world.
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Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Pretty much this. Back in Vanilla, getting people to run BRD was like pulling teeth...ESPECIALLY Emperor runs. No one wanted to fucking run that shit except warriors and rogues.
I agree BRD was an awesome crawl dungeon, but crawling gets tedious after you've run it enough and all you're interested in is the item with a 5% drop rate. I'm pretty sure the old Onyxia key quest didn't help either. I ran BRD prison area like 20-30 times doing that slow as fuck escort quest when we were keying the guild. Even the HBO 'Oz' jokes weren't enough to keep me interested after running just a few times.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I absolutely love BRD to this day. That was a love letter to Sebilis, Chardok, Lower Guk and the rest. But as a single group dungeon crawl fuck that place. They should have kept it non-instanced and see what happened.
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I mean it was designed over 12 levels from 48-60 so yeah that might of been a bit of a blunder still overall it was a great dungeon. I do miss the non-instanced stuff of EQ and they had so many amazing dungeons and experiences.
Still my point is we can never get an amazing experience for a dungeon as long as the current design must conform to a timed M+ run. They can be split like Karazhan was but that really isn't great either.
Still my point is we can never get an amazing experience for a dungeon as long as the current design must conform to a timed M+ run. They can be split like Karazhan was but that really isn't great either.
Foggy
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Lower Kara was the best M+ dungeon in legion. So many crazy pulls to try. I think all dungeons should be designed as these “raid” dungeons and then split up.
I also wonder if there is a way for them to effectively implement Diablo style map randoming for a dungeon or two, and I don’t mean door bullshit like in Waycrest. They should also have big open dungeons, like have a huge fortress you have to invade and clear but they don’t give any path, you pick.
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Khane
Got something right about marriage
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You can turn every single dungeon since TBC into an M+ dungeon with little effort. Timewalking kinda proves that. M+ was just a natural progression of their dungeon design philosophy since 2007. The problem really lies in instancing and the removal of respawns. Pretty much every dungeon in EQ had huge level ranges. Kurn's Tower was 8-30, Kaesora was 30-50 and both of those dungeons were in the same lowbie Iksar zone (Field of Bone) and if you really wanted to you could pick a dungeon and just sit in it for 20 levels at different camps and probably make some decent profit off of rare spawns and drops that were tradeable and never bound. All of that is gone, sadly.
Twinking for low level battlgrounds in Classic is probably going to be pretty fun (if they add XP Off) because you could substantially twink back then.
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Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Non-instanced dungeons have a host of problems
1) If your game is popular, then the place is too crowded
2) If your game is dead, then it might be overwhelming for the RvR
3) If you implement limited instancing, people are going to try to get into the less crowded ones because despite what people say, no one wants a dungeon that has no mobs/no loot for THEMSELVES
4) If you put anything meaningful in the non-instanced dungeon, then it will be camped 24/7, leading to griefing/botting/exploiting/scams/gold sellers
5) Timezones. Do you remember Euro guilds and Asian guilds killing content in EQ1 while the majority of your guild was sleeping/in school/at work? I sure as fuck do.
All of the above ends up leading to your playerbase who cannot access the content bitching about it. Then it becomes simple math. If 80% of your playerbase isn't able to access the shit, that means you are sinking development costs and time into content the majority of your customer base cannot access and WANTS to access.
It's no coincidence that virtually every MMO in the past 10 years makes the content available to virtually everyone, but then tiers it by difficulty level to appease most of the playerbase (easier versions so general playerbase can enjoy the content, then hardmode versions for the epeen/uber crowd so they can get +betterer loot over the plebs and have a bigger challenge).
1) If your game is popular, then the place is too crowded
2) If your game is dead, then it might be overwhelming for the RvR
3) If you implement limited instancing, people are going to try to get into the less crowded ones because despite what people say, no one wants a dungeon that has no mobs/no loot for THEMSELVES
4) If you put anything meaningful in the non-instanced dungeon, then it will be camped 24/7, leading to griefing/botting/exploiting/scams/gold sellers
5) Timezones. Do you remember Euro guilds and Asian guilds killing content in EQ1 while the majority of your guild was sleeping/in school/at work? I sure as fuck do.
All of the above ends up leading to your playerbase who cannot access the content bitching about it. Then it becomes simple math. If 80% of your playerbase isn't able to access the shit, that means you are sinking development costs and time into content the majority of your customer base cannot access and WANTS to access.
It's no coincidence that virtually every MMO in the past 10 years makes the content available to virtually everyone, but then tiers it by difficulty level to appease most of the playerbase (easier versions so general playerbase can enjoy the content, then hardmode versions for the epeen/uber crowd so they can get +betterer loot over the plebs and have a bigger challenge).
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Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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John Staat's WoW Diary mention it (and Scarlet Monastery). The biggest problem is that people hate starting a dungeon and not "finish it". With a non-instanced setup, it works, but since you know all of that dungeon is there for you, and only you, you feel bad when you don't do everything (completist syndrome).
Extensive huge dungeons work if either:
1) They're not instanced for a single group
2) They're saved and restarted (aka raids)
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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I have been getting the itch to play but mostly because of Classic, now I am kind of sad I let like 2-3 million worth of shit disappear for not logging in to check on the auctions I had listed when I quit playing. Granted in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter all that much but even so. On the bright side installing TSM again and spending about 30min on the AH I made roughly 37,000g
xzi
Mouthbreather
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I definitely feel like it's going to go way up on launch. Ton of people coming back trying to get tokens so they don't have to pay for the first month, wouldn't surprise me.
That is a good point though I wonder how it will actually affect token prices.
Also I need to get better at AH game. Currently the only thing I do is buy out all the Augment runes and re-list them on raid nights for way more gold in stacks of 10. It works but patch is mighty close and unsure if they're getting better runes or not yet.
That is a good point though I wonder how it will actually affect token prices.
Also I need to get better at AH game. Currently the only thing I do is buy out all the Augment runes and re-list them on raid nights for way more gold in stacks of 10. It works but patch is mighty close and unsure if they're getting better runes or not yet.