World of Warcraft: Current Year

BoozeCube · Mar 22, 2021

donomito said:
This is 100% true, I understand the new and shiny thing, but I don't see them not going all fucking ape retarded with item level increases and these just absurd gearing schemes. God these guys are terrible at their jobs.

What's even dumber is that they realize it's a problem and they are forced to squish all stats every other xpac. They could just not be retarded faggot dipshits and slow things to fuck down and get rid of 214324 difficulties of the fucking game.

kaid · Mar 22, 2021

BoozeCube said:
What's even dumber is that they realize it's a problem and they are forced to squish all stats every other xpac. They could just not be retarded faggot dipshits and slow things to fuck down and get rid of 214324 difficulties of the fucking game.

Honestly I don't think there is a great answer to this for a game that basically will last years/decades that has loot. If you are going to have loot that matters over a long enough period of time and expansions eventually its going to inflate beyond sanity. They have just accepted this and want making getting new gear in a new raid feel strong so you get the weirdness we have now. One other way of doing it is basically the guildwars method which is your gear never really gets better you get different flavors of gear but it never gets any stronger and is mostly there for cosmetics.

One somewhat useful side effect of how bliz does it is if you come back after a long absence gearing back up to a competitive level is fairly simple.

I kinda don't get the complaint of the difficulties. You can get basically a full set of 197 gear just doing your covenant hall stuff and world quests and callings. LFR basically does not exist as far as gear mattering goes it is just transmogs nothing else. Normal raiding barely matters as any upgrade there is tiny. So you basically have heroics which not many do and mythics raids which almost none of the player base does and mythic dungeons. I guess you have pvp as well but the bulk doing that bounce of the ilvel cap thats equal to your covenant hall stuff anyway so not really an issue.

McCheese · Mar 22, 2021

Personally, as a casual player, it's a balance of fun vs. gear longevity for me. If they want to have constant gear resets, they need to make sure doing shit (i.e., playing the game) is actually fun. I don't mind getting gear that'll be made useless relatively quickly if the act of getting the gear is fun. The gear is just a byproduct of playing a fun game. On the other hand, if I know the gear I get will be useable for years in the style of EQ, I'm more willing to slog through mediocre gameplay for it.

Right now, for me, it isn't fun and hasn't been for a while, which removes any and all desire to play and get gear that'll be invalidated so soon.

Zog · Mar 22, 2021

I think the masses are just fucking tired of playing WoW and a lot of people are pointing fingers at different shit in WoW as the reason but its just the entire thing is just more of the same.

Shadowlands in a spiffy new game would have done a lot better, with people looking forward to a new storyline that didn't involve the same dumb shit that should have ended in WoTLK.

I will agree though that when you cleared normal Castle Nathria, the difficulty and the rarity of loot within heroic and mythic castle nathria really just wasn't worth the trouble.

Shadowlands needed more raid content out the door to be honest and world bosses certainly dont count, maybe if all of the world bosses were up and available at the same time, it would have helped but... Torghast seemed to be their special baby for the expansion and it was just boring as fuck.

I don't know if it is the content itself or the imposed delay of the content trickling in that did it but i wont make the mistake again and I'm sure i'm not the only one that hasn't played retail since wotlk and gave shadowlands a chance that wont be buying or playing their next expansion or any dumb fucking patch.

However, TBC and if they aren't completely dumb, WoTLK classic servers are going to be the absolute bomb diggity until they put out cata progression that nobody wants and by god I hope we have something new to play by then or so help me god. Im really hoping we never even make it to WoTLK before something new and *worth* playing hits the market.

BoozeCube · Mar 22, 2021

Zog said:
I think the masses are just fucking tired of playing WoW

Zog said:
However, TBC and if they aren't completely dumb, WoTLK classic servers are going to be the absolute bomb diggity

You even pointed it out yourself. People aren't tired of playing WoW they are tired of the dogshit failure retail has become.

Chris · Mar 22, 2021

I'd do branching paths of content/gear.

Like your Molten Core gear has fire res which allows you to venture deeper into the caves.

But when you do Naxxramas, maybe you start in a forge quarter you can use your MC gear in to progress more easily, but then you need to gather frost res gear for the last section. It's a mini gear reset as you need the new stat, but don't need to inflate item level as much as other stats don't need to be that much higher now.

But when you go back to MC, the Naxx frost res gear isn't invalidating the dungeon as you still need some fire res pieces and the item level is lower because of the design.

I've mentioned this before and you guys seemed to hate it. What you have to do is have a good UI for changing gear and give perks for farming these gear sets. Have resource gathering nodes in the open world you can only get to with the fire res gear. Reward a ring with unusually high fire res for finishing the tier ser.

The next expansion may not have any fire themed dungeons or gear, but still put in fire res gated areas to encourage farming the old content. Maybe it does have a fire themed raid and people with the fire res ring for finishing MC have a massive advantage. How about access to a quest hub during levelling with easy travel connections? There's lots you can do with the concept, Breath of the Wild has such a system for example.

Khane · Mar 22, 2021

Hey guys, here's this pretty new, cool idea I had that literally existed in both WoW and EQ.

I wrote this post on my XBox controller.

Thanks for reading.

Zog · Mar 22, 2021

BoozeCube said:
You even pointed it out yourself. People aren't tired of playing WoW they are tired of the dogshit failure retail has become.

I dont know, are you personally just as excited about TBC as you were classic? Me personally im not really that excited, im excited with the fact its something "new" to do but I just remember not having much to do outside of raid logging for raids and getting annoyed with black temple progression.

The world itself felt small to me, with few places to farm mats, with only one or two being actually worth farming due to prices on my server.

You do at least have rare mounts to farm in TBC if you care about that sort of thing and typing this out makes it really feel like im talking about shadowlands.

With them time gating content with, last I heard, arenas not being in phase 1, gonna be real boring for the first few months.

BoozeCube · Mar 22, 2021

Or maybe, just maybe hear me out. Go back to gear progression like it was when the game was growing and people enjoyed playing it. Right now in Classic people are using a select couple of MC pieces still in Naxx. Also a brand new character in blues isn't just completely rejected from every piece of content.

There is a power curve where people grow in power but not everything is negated. 90% - In MC for a Warrior was 624 dps to 1121 in Naxx over the course of 2 years and 7 raid zones you saw an increase of roughly 79% performance.

Damage Statistics - Molten Core | Warcraft Logs Classic

Classic damage rankings and statistics for Molten Core in World of Warcraft.

classic.warcraftlogs.com

Damage Statistics - Naxxramas | Warcraft Logs Classic

Classic damage rankings and statistics for Naxxramas in World of Warcraft.

classic.warcraftlogs.com

Starting in BFA for Uldir people were doing roughly 11k DPS to start with by the time the last raid was out Ny'alotha people were averaging 140k DPS that is an almost 1300% increase.

Damage Statistics - Mythic Uldir | Warcraft Logs

Battle for Azeroth damage rankings and statistics for Uldir in World of Warcraft.

www.warcraftlogs.com

Damage Statistics - Mythic Ny'alotha | Warcraft Logs

Battle for Azeroth damage rankings and statistics for Ny'alotha in World of Warcraft.

www.warcraftlogs.com

If you dumb faggots can't recognize that simple level of fucking idiocy there isn't much hope. They no longer have any talent left at that fucking company.

Mist · Mar 23, 2021

BoozeCube said:
Or maybe, just maybe hear me out. Go back to gear progression like it was when the game was growing and people enjoyed playing it. Right now in Classic people are using a select couple of MC pieces still in Naxx. Also a brand new character in blues isn't just completely rejected from every piece of content.

There is a power curve where people grow in power but not everything is negated. 90% - In MC for a Warrior was 624 dps to 1121 in Naxx over the course of 2 years and 7 raid zones you saw an increase of roughly 79% performance.

Damage Statistics - Molten Core | Warcraft Logs Classic

Classic damage rankings and statistics for Molten Core in World of Warcraft.

classic.warcraftlogs.com

Damage Statistics - Naxxramas | Warcraft Logs Classic

Classic damage rankings and statistics for Naxxramas in World of Warcraft.

classic.warcraftlogs.com

Starting in BFA for Uldir people were doing roughly 11k DPS to start with by the time the last raid was out Ny'alotha people were averaging 140k DPS that is an almost 1300% increase.

Damage Statistics - Mythic Uldir | Warcraft Logs

Battle for Azeroth damage rankings and statistics for Uldir in World of Warcraft.

www.warcraftlogs.com

Damage Statistics - Mythic Ny'alotha | Warcraft Logs

Battle for Azeroth damage rankings and statistics for Ny'alotha in World of Warcraft.

www.warcraftlogs.com

If you dumb faggots can't recognize that simple level of fucking idiocy there isn't much hope. They no longer have any talent left at that fucking company.

Classic is fucking boring compared to legit vanilla It's filled with autists playing fury warriors, claiming all the loot for themselves so they can grind no-challenge content each week so they can parse 0.2% better with their world buffs that make content that already wasn't challenging into something stupidly trivial. Basing anything off of Classic is stupid.

BC or WOTLK or wotlk are much better models to base things off of than Vanilla/Classic. BC loot was damn near perfect, where each tier of loot was distinctly and markedly better but set bonuses and especially trinkets made things interesting tier to tier. Your trinkets generally lasted 2 tiers.

WOTLK loot was very good, hard mode bosses gave more/better loot and there was interesting loot from valor but your shit didn't get invalidated week 1 of the next season.

The problem with WoW loot progression didn't really start until they decided they needed to support 4 tiers of difficulty/loot every single season. If they could just go back to having normal and heroic tiers, they could fix a whole lot. Just make the last 3 bosses of heroic hard as fuck, or give them hard modes with half a tier better loot or something.

People shit on Shadowlands but they've definitely done some things right. PvP is the best its been since WOTLK or maybe Mists of Pandaria. PvP loot progression is working very well, and Blizzard recognized this by making M+ work more like PvP.

They can also just stop with all these borrowed power systems and just give me 5 trinket slots and fill the various forms of content with interesting trinkets.

BoozeCube · Mar 23, 2021

Mist said:
Classic is fucking boring compared to legit vanilla It's filled with autists playing fury warriors, claiming all the loot for themselves so they can grind no-challenge content each week so they can parse 0.2% better with their world buffs that make content that already wasn't challenging into something stupidly trivial. Basing anything off of Classic is stupid.

BC or WOTLK or wotlk are much better models to base things off of than Vanilla/Classic. BC loot was damn near perfect, where each tier of loot was distinctly and markedly better but set bonuses and especially trinkets made things interesting tier to tier. Your trinkets generally lasted 2 tiers.

WOTLK loot was very good, hard mode bosses gave more/better loot and there was interesting loot from valor but your shit didn't get invalidated week 1 of the next season.

The problem with WoW loot progression didn't really start until they decided they needed to support 4 tiers of difficulty/loot every single season. If they could just go back to having normal and heroic tiers, they could fix a whole lot. Just make the last 3 bosses of heroic hard as fuck, or give them hard modes with half a tier better loot or something.

People shit on Shadowlands but they've definitely done some things right. PvP is the best its been since WOTLK or maybe Mists of Pandaria. PvP loot progression is working very well, and Blizzard recognized this by making M+ work more like PvP.

They can also just stop with all these borrowed power systems and just give me 5 trinket slots and fill the various forms of content with interesting trinkets.

I know you are a stupid cunt but BC and WOTLK also didn't see 1300% damage increases over the fucking expansion. If you are going to waste my time quoting me then keep it on topic you miserable bitch.

Mist · Mar 23, 2021

BoozeCube said:
I know you are a stupid cunt but BC and WOTLK also didn't see 1300% damage increases over the fucking expansion. If you are going to waste my time quoting me then keep it on topic you miserable bitch.

I'm just saying that I mostly agree with you but it'd be better if it was more like BC and WOTLK and less like Classic. Classic actually fucking sucks.

Merrith · Mar 23, 2021

Mist said:
Classic is fucking boring compared to legit vanilla It's filled with autists playing fury warriors, claiming all the loot for themselves so they can grind no-challenge content each week so they can parse 0.2% better with their world buffs that make content that already wasn't challenging into something stupidly trivial. Basing anything off of Classic is stupid.

BC or WOTLK or wotlk are much better models to base things off of than Vanilla/Classic. BC loot was damn near perfect, where each tier of loot was distinctly and markedly better but set bonuses and especially trinkets made things interesting tier to tier. Your trinkets generally lasted 2 tiers.

WOTLK loot was very good, hard mode bosses gave more/better loot and there was interesting loot from valor but your shit didn't get invalidated week 1 of the next season.

The problem with WoW loot progression didn't really start until they decided they needed to support 4 tiers of difficulty/loot every single season. If they could just go back to having normal and heroic tiers, they could fix a whole lot. Just make the last 3 bosses of heroic hard as fuck, or give them hard modes with half a tier better loot or something.

People shit on Shadowlands but they've definitely done some things right. PvP is the best its been since WOTLK or maybe Mists of Pandaria. PvP loot progression is working very well, and Blizzard recognized this by making M+ work more like PvP.

They can also just stop with all these borrowed power systems and just give me 5 trinket slots and fill the various forms of content with interesting trinkets.

Don't know if I'd say the tiers were all amazing in BC, etc...cause frankly we never took the time to farm out full early tier sets, since you were more worried about the keying process and just moving on. Granted we were doing pre-nerf Gruul and shit, and only killed Kael as many times as we needed to key the guild to Hyjal. Pretty much were just trying to get into BT as early as you could b/c the early bosses were all loot pinatas and it was all better shit than stuff before it (minor exceptions obv).

Amusing to think of early-mid Wrath when they actually did have I believe 4 different tiers of tokens for gear, until implementing the standard 2 with the catch up and current levels.

Razzes · Mar 23, 2021

Having played shadowlands and vanilla WoW... both are just very different experiences. Vanilla WoW was about character progression, you played the same char for months if not years and slowly acquire gear and slowly discover new content. In retail, it is more about the gameplay experience, gear acquisition and discovery is noise. The gameplay experience is much better on retail: mythic raiding, arena pvp... have much more depth and challenges than anything in vanilla WoW. However, the fun you get from character progression element is also diminished compared to vanilla. When you're done with whatever challenge you had (gladiator, cutting edge) you just switch to an alt and try to get a new gameplay experience.

I've enjoyed both retail and vanilla WoW. My only grip with retail is that they haven't completely embrace their new model: leveling/gearing alt is still a pain, changing covenant and legendary is still a pain. I'd like to experience pvp on multitude of spec/classes, but it is so tedious to level and gear up.

Chris · Mar 23, 2021

Khane said:
Hey guys, here's this pretty new, cool idea I had that literally existed in both WoW and EQ.

I wrote this post on my XBox controller.

Thanks for reading.

Yeah of course, the problem is that Blizzard don't develop and iterate systems, they just totally rewrite or devolve them.

Like Artifact Weapons devolved into a worse version with Azerite Gear, instead of sticking around and being further advanced.

Qhue · Mar 23, 2021

I recently did Legion content with a Void Elf Shadow Priest and when I got the first Artifact weapon it was such a downer because it was just a stick instead of being this awesomely cool thing.

Do you think they even have a plan for how Shadowlands ends or are they going all JJ Abrams mysterybox and waiting for the fans to write the story for them?

Merrith · Mar 23, 2021

Qhue said:
I recently did Legion content with a Void Elf Shadow Priest and when I got the first Artifact weapon it was such a downer because it was just a stick instead of being this awesomely cool thing.

Do you think they even have a plan for how Shadowlands ends or are they going all JJ Abrams mysterybox and waiting for the fans to write the story for them?

Do you mean a good plan or just a plan in general? It's pretty clear they've been writing the lore pretty far ahead with their whole cosmic forces stuff. Whether or not it actually sounds like it makes any kind of sense by the end is anyone's guess, though.

Creslin · Mar 23, 2021

Razzes said:
Having played shadowlands and vanilla WoW... both are just very different experiences. Vanilla WoW was about character progression, you played the same char for months if not years and slowly acquire gear and slowly discover new content. In retail, it is more about the gameplay experience, gear acquisition and discovery is noise. The gameplay experience is much better on retail: mythic raiding, arena pvp... have much more depth and challenges than anything in vanilla WoW. However, the fun you get from character progression element is also diminished compared to vanilla. When you're done with whatever challenge you had (gladiator, cutting edge) you just switch to an alt and try to get a new gameplay experience.

I've enjoyed both retail and vanilla WoW. My only grip with retail is that they haven't completely embrace their new model: leveling/gearing alt is still a pain, changing covenant and legendary is still a pain. I'd like to experience pvp on multitude of spec/classes, but it is so tedious to level and gear up.

Mythic is too hard and too exclusive. WoW classic might be too easy but 2004 wow was closer in difficulty to classic than it is to retail. They made shit so hard they forced guilds to destroy their communities, it isnt a collection of friends when you have to kick people who aren't top tier and if you don't you are stuck doing heroics for gear that doesn't matter and could just be gotten AFK.

You can't be a guild that is OK but a tier behind anymore either because if you are a tier behind they are just mailing out your gear for free. The modern design is just garbage, designed by hardcore raiders who have no idea what made this genre successful. It's painful because the answer seems easy. Mythic should not be a difficulty beyond maybe statless transmogs, lfr should go and normal should go, heroic should be tuned to be tough but have a good amount of margin for error and gear resets should be every expansion or not at all.

Blizz would be in real trouble except every other company is just as dumb.

Mist · Mar 23, 2021

Creslin said:
Mythic is too hard and too exclusive. WoW classic might be too easy but 2004 wow was closer in difficulty to classic than it is to retail. They made shit so hard they forced guilds to destroy their communities, it isnt a collection of friends when you have to kick people who aren't top tier and if you don't you are stuck doing heroics for gear that doesn't matter and could just be gotten AFK.

You can't be a guild that is OK but a tier behind anymore either because if you are a tier behind they are just mailing out your gear for free. The modern design is just garbage, designed by hardcore raiders who have no idea what made this genre successful. It's painful because the answer seems easy. Mythic should not be a difficulty beyond maybe statless transmogs, lfr should go and normal should go, heroic should be tuned to be tough but have a good amount of margin for error and gear resets should be every expansion or not at all.

Blizz would be in real trouble except every other company is just as dumb.

Eh, Mythic isn't that hard or exclusive. Very mediocre, non-selective guilds can clear 6 or 7/10 Mythic by the end of the season if they're willing to put in the progression every week.

Normal definitely served a purpose this time around, it was quite challenging for the first few weeks when most people were in ilvl 170 gear. It's only useless at this point in the season because like you said they're giving out ilvl 194+ gear for free at this point so who the fuck would raid for 200 gear? But it was challenging, worthwhile content for the first 4+ weeks for average guilds and 6+ weeks for casual guilds.

LFR is fucking useless and needs to go. It isn't interesting or rewarding content for anyone the way things are structured right now, and it just makes them have to pad out a bunch of extra ilvls of mudflation every season so it can fit somewhere on the schedule. And the schedule is fucking stupid because by the time LFR wings open up, nobody needs or wants that gear.

Razzes · Mar 24, 2021

Mythic is hard when progressing mythic the first weeks of the patch. Doing mythic right now is very fun and casual. Casual guild at 220+ ilvl can easily get 6/10 as the above poster said. With perseverance and a few more nerfs, these guilds will get Cutting edge.

The first challenge of mythic is Council of blood, which was killed by complexity limit with sub 210 ilvl and has since been nerfed severely. At 220+ilvl which is obtainable at this point with casual play, defeating council of blood on mythic is a fair challenge that doesn't require your players to be cognitive powerhouse. The real problem with this tier mythic was SLG, which just got nerfed again.

I genuinely think the raiding experience was very good in shadowlands. It was my first time on the normal/heroic/mythic model and I had fun with all difficulties. My only real problem is that progressing at this time on mythic doesn't reward you with much in terms of gear. I wouldn't mind if they made CN mythic 233 ilvl and SLG/sire D 240ilvl so there is more incentive to keep progressing.

World of Warcraft: Current Year

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