World of Warcraft: Current Year

Mist said:

Eh, Mythic isn't that hard or exclusive. Very mediocre, non-selective guilds can clear 6 or 7/10 Mythic by the end of the season if they're willing to put in the progression every week.

Normal definitely served a purpose this time around, it was quite challenging for the first few weeks when most people were in ilvl 170 gear. It's only useless at this point in the season because like you said they're giving out ilvl 194+ gear for free at this point so who the fuck would raid for 200 gear? But it was challenging, worthwhile content for the first 4+ weeks for average guilds and 6+ weeks for casual guilds.

LFR is fucking useless and needs to go. It isn't interesting or rewarding content for anyone the way things are structured right now, and it just makes them have to pad out a bunch of extra ilvls of mudflation every season so it can fit somewhere on the schedule. And the schedule is fucking stupid because by the time LFR wings open up, nobody needs or wants that gear.

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Obviously normal served its purpose when the ilvl gap on gear was so severe this expansion. It has been several years since it has been that far apart. Which most people would attribute the gap simply towards slowing down content and making mythic progression slower. Which in reality, means fuck all to a massive amount of the player base. Ive played three different toons in a Mythic guild and it's just not fun. Even if you reach the top "whatever" of guilds, then no one fucking cares. Hell, no one really gives a fuck who even clears it first. Which I think Blizzard is fucking asinine for chasing the eSport. People watch clips of that shit just so they know how its done so they (hopefully) don't have to waste that many attempts to get it done. But in my opinion, the longer this shit goes on - the less people give a shit. "Why am I going to waste hours upon hours of my time doing shit that is just not fun?"

Ive started to take Booze's attitude in how people wants have, and continue to ruin the game. Between here and reddit, you really get to see people whine about alts, and catch up mechanics. Booze may not agree with it, but I personally think making the game "Alt Friendly" is a fucking detriment to the game. You join late? Fuck you. You're new? Fuck you. Do the shit I had to do. Why? Because if you're skipping that treadmill, then I question why the fuck I even do it? I dont give a fuck that little fucking Timmy doesnt have time to play two different characters or more in the game. I dont care that Joe Blow has an 18 hour work day and can only play 30 minutes. What amplifies the fuck you mode is that MMO's have been copying WoW for years and what they do trickles down into other MMO's and ruins their games (further). WoW has a lot of memories tied to it, but the sooner Blizzard dies in a self inflicted fire - the better. I havent spent my own money on Blizzard in at least three years. I've got 2 million gold on Hyjal and 130 bucks in blizzard cash. Ill try w/e they throw out to see if anything changes (cause Im MMO starved) but fuck if Im going to pay out of pocket for anything theyve came up with lately.

Mist said:

LFR is fucking useless and needs to go. It isn't interesting or rewarding content for anyone the way things are structured right now, and it just makes them have to pad out a bunch of extra ilvls of mudflation every season so it can fit somewhere on the schedule. And the schedule is fucking stupid because by the time LFR wings open up, nobody needs or wants that gear.

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LFR is here to stay, they've said a couple times in the past it justifies the cost that it takes to create raids. Let the casuals see the raids and finish the story etc. You're right that the numbers are way off, it drops 187 gear which was mostly worthless outside of trinkets by the time all the wings opened up. Even shitters like me had mostly full 197 from BGs and covenant before LFR was fully open.

Razzes said:

Mythic is hard when progressing mythic the first weeks of the patch. Doing mythic right now is very fun and casual. Casual guild at 220+ ilvl can easily get 6/10 as the above poster said. With perseverance and a few more nerfs, these guilds will get Cutting edge.

The first challenge of mythic is Council of blood, which was killed by complexity limit with sub 210 ilvl and has since been nerfed severely. At 220+ilvl which is obtainable at this point with casual play, defeating council of blood on mythic is a fair challenge that doesn't require your players to be cognitive powerhouse. The real problem with this tier mythic was SLG, which just got nerfed again.

I genuinely think the raiding experience was very good in shadowlands. It was my first time on the normal/heroic/mythic model and I had fun with all difficulties. My only real problem is that progressing at this time on mythic doesn't reward you with much in terms of gear. I wouldn't mind if they made CN mythic 233 ilvl and SLG/sire D 240ilvl so there is more incentive to keep progressing.

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Casual is a bit misleading. In terms of time investment at this point with vault drops adding up the works been done but no one at 6/10 mythic is casually fucking around with the game, they’re going to be good players who have all done it before.

Mist said:

Eh, Mythic isn't that hard or exclusive. Very mediocre, non-selective guilds can clear 6 or 7/10 Mythic by the end of the season if they're willing to put in the progression every week.

Normal definitely served a purpose this time around, it was quite challenging for the first few weeks when most people were in ilvl 170 gear. It's only useless at this point in the season because like you said they're giving out ilvl 194+ gear for free at this point so who the fuck would raid for 200 gear? But it was challenging, worthwhile content for the first 4+ weeks for average guilds and 6+ weeks for casual guilds.

LFR is fucking useless and needs to go. It isn't interesting or rewarding content for anyone the way things are structured right now, and it just makes them have to pad out a bunch of extra ilvls of mudflation every season so it can fit somewhere on the schedule. And the schedule is fucking stupid because by the time LFR wings open up, nobody needs or wants that gear.

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LFR does absolutely nothing to add ilevels. Its ilevel is firmly between mythic 0 dungeons and covenant gear/world quest gear. Unless you are an ungeared alt or can't be bothered to upgrade the covenant armor LFR gear is strictly for transmogs. You could make them ilevel 1 and it would not change anything.

kaid said:

LFR does absolutely nothing to add ilevels. Its ilevel is firmly between mythic 0 dungeons and covenant gear/world quest gear. Unless you are an ungeared alt or can't be bothered to upgrade the covenant armor LFR gear is strictly for transmogs. You could make them ilevel 1 and it would not change anything.

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That may be the case now, but I suspect 9.1+ will open up LFR to provide upgrades beyond covenant gear.

Hachima said:

That may be the case now, but I suspect 9.1+ will open up LFR to provide upgrades beyond covenant gear.

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After BFA I kinda doubt it. All throughout BFA LFR has lagged behind even what world quests dropped. It is basically there for transmogs and so most of the customer base can see all the content even if they are window lickers.

Mist said:

It does add ilvls because they still have to make the overall season ilvl span bigger to account for all these different difficulty levels and progression through the season.

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But it does not because there are no ilevels added into LFR that were not added at higher levels in other content. LFR is a weird dead spot in that by the time you can get into it the gear it drops is already obsolete.


If you eliminate LFR completely it changes nothing.

WQ go up to 194 with callings dropping 203 gear.
Covenant armor 197 all main slots
normal non ranked pvp you can get by just losing battlegrounds repeatedly 197.

All of those are above what you get from LFR. You can complain about different difficulty levels and stuff and for a lot of things that may be somewhat valid but LFR it is literally not an issue for ilevel inflation.

Mist said:

Eh, Mythic isn't that hard or exclusive. Very mediocre, non-selective guilds can clear 6 or 7/10 Mythic by the end of the season if they're willing to put in the progression every week.

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Yes it is. Arguing otherwise is nonsensical - the alliance hall of fame didn't even fill until a few weeks ago. There are still only 1800 guilds worldwide across both factions that have even killed mythic sludgefist.

Seems weird to quote a statement about the ability to be 6 or 7/10 Mythic, then mention a statistic about how many have killed the 8th boss.

Mist said:

I don't do Mythic raids this season because my class is too poop to bring more than 1 of, but I was 4/8 in BFA S3 and 7/12 in BFA Season 4.

I really just don't think WoW can ever be the game people here want it to be. It is not possible to make a 17 year old game fun with 20+ hours a week of content, for everyone, indefinitely. Even in amazing "true hardcore gamer" games like PoE interest drops way off halfway through each ladder league seasons even in the best seasons, and in the bad leagues (looking at you, Bestiary, Talisman, etc) the game can go completely dead for months.

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I just wonder how much extra content they could put out, like covenant stuff, better Maw, etc...if they didn't come up with a few hundred conduits among 12 different soulbinds, for X amount of specs, all balanced around 8 different potential new covenant abilities.

That seems like a separate issue/discussion from the gear progression one, which they always seem to get wrong in some areas, but it is better in other ones.

velk said:

Yes it is. Arguing otherwise is nonsensical - the alliance hall of fame didn't even fill until a few weeks ago. There are still only 1800 guilds worldwide across both factions that have even killed mythic sludgefist.

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And then promptly had a bunch of those on the hall of fame banned for buying it from Chinese boost teams.

Bobby needs to ensure next year's bonus, bro....

It equates at the current 'average' price of tokens to a roughly 47k gold increase in subscription costs.

Fuck em. They don't want my money.

Do you still have to do a survey? Is the sad peon still there?