World of Warcraft: Current Year

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Daidraco

Daidraco

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Chris said:
Really FF14 just made gear irrelevant unless you are on the cutting edge of the most difficult raids.

That has advantages in that you can just play for the joy of it without chores and yes the raids are just fun to do, but disadvantages if you enjoy character customisation like me and socketing minmaxed jewels/materia isn't enough.

The transmog/glamour system is much better than WoWs and gives a reason to get gear though. The actual UI is jankier but the visuals of the gear sets are amazing.
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Never would have guessed you would be talking about FFXIV in the WoW thread.

Gear is subjective - some people like FFXIV art style and some like WoW's. I agree in this regard because some shit looks fantastic. If you're talking about graphical fidelity, then no shit - FFXIV is at best ~6 years newer, and more accurately ~9 years newer. But the way the glamour system is designed, the way a player engages with it, and its limited capacity are pure fucking aids and doesnt hold a candle to WoW's transmog system.

On that same note, I dont know who wins in the competition to make the most grindy boring ass shit just to own a cosmetic. FFXIV with its constant grind to obtain the cosmetic look of weapons every fucking time you turn around... or the worst offenses in WoW with mount farming or Garrosh's shoulders?

I honestly cant wait for Riots MMO and maybe AOC because when you take a step back and realize that the best the industry has is these two fucking MMO's.. its a sad fucking world. Especially when a fucking retarded Parrot is constantly telling everyone about how great one is over the other.
 
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Caeden

Caeden

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Chris said:
Only higher cadence because content comes out more quickly!

The key difference is that FFXIV rewards crafters with the catchup gear rather than some insane dev time heavy new RNG system every patch, you can farm for alts on your main and the content is FUN.

Like when I'm subbed I'll do the alliance raid because 1) It's a nice looking glamour for my alt healer classes and 2) the 4th boss has a fun boss with a song that could have been in Aladdin and I somehow know all the words to. I don't actually need the gear for my main tank classes.
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Honestly, up through legion I’d say WoW was overall the way superior game. The WoW transmog shits all over FF14’s as far as I’m concerned. FF14’s biggest thing is figuring out how to make old content continue to be relevant.

There are times I flat out think WoW’s presentation of the class hall stories was way superior than FF14 class quests.

I think the Job system is great. I think the raids and dungeons are mostly great. I do not think they’re this epiphany compared to WoW at least at a casual sense. Gameplay wise WoW classes have at various times been better than anything so far in 14. Tanks in particular. I do enjoy the additional complexity for DPS. Bags, handing in quest items, etc are clearly handled better in WoW. I think the other big advantage of 14 is the devs clearly expect that you want to do other things. I respect that. There’s grinds but everything doesn’t reek of dripping content to keep you hooked in a la WoW about Draenor on.

14’s story and writing is at times completely childish while mature. It’s that odd Japanese thing. WoW could present some more mature writing when not dropping into pop culture references. I have no reference for whether late BFA and Shadowlands adopted the more infantile writing so prevalent among millennial pronoun liberals or not. I presume “I did a thing” and “and that’s a good/bad thing” writing shit crept in since the adults left. I have a feeling I won’t have to ever see that in 14 and I’m thankful for that.

Ultimately, with some downers, I’d still say WoW at least through legion was a top 3 game of all time for me. 14 hasn’t even cracked a top 10 and I’d currently rank it among modern theme park MMOs behind WoW and SWTOR (launch only) overall for me from a content and story perspective. I suspect it should surpass SWTOR fairly easily as I sink further into it but HW doesn’t even crack vs any good WoW xpac or the better SWTOR class stories.

still a good game. It’s just not changing my life.
 
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Chris

Chris

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Caeden said:
Honestly, up through legion I’d say WoW was overall the way superior game. The WoW transmog shits all over FF14’s as far as I’m concerned. FF14’s biggest thing is figuring out how to make old content continue to be relevant.

There are times I flat out think WoW’s presentation of the class hall stories was way superior than FF14 class quests.

I think the Job system is great. I think the raids and dungeons are mostly great. I do not think they’re this epiphany compared to WoW at least at a casual sense. Gameplay wise WoW classes have at various times been better than anything so far in 14. Tanks in particular. I do enjoy the additional complexity for DPS. Bags, handing in quest items, etc are clearly handled better in WoW. I think the other big advantage of 14 is the devs clearly expect that you want to do other things. I respect that. There’s grinds but everything doesn’t reek of dripping content to keep you hooked in a la WoW about Draenor on.

14’s story and writing is at times completely childish while mature. It’s that odd Japanese thing. WoW could present some more mature writing when not dropping into pop culture references. I have no reference for whether late BFA and Shadowlands adopted the more infantile writing so prevalent among millennial pronoun liberals or not. I presume “I did a thing” and “and that’s a good/bad thing” writing shit crept in since the adults left. I have a feeling I won’t have to ever see that in 14 and I’m thankful for that.

Ultimately, with some downers, I’d still say WoW at least through legion was a top 3 game of all time for me. 14 hasn’t even cracked a top 10 and I’d currently rank it among modern theme park MMOs behind WoW and SWTOR (launch only) overall for me from a content and story perspective. I suspect it should surpass SWTOR fairly easily as I sink further into it but HW doesn’t even crack vs any good WoW xpac or the better SWTOR class stories.

still a good game. It’s just not changing my life.
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This is why I post about FF14 here. There's things FF14 does better, but it also draws into focus great things that WoW did like Class Halls or just the base UI being smooth.

WoW's abandonment of old content is their greatest sin and problem, with that content's original state safe in Classic, they should scale it all up and do something with it - they have the tech.

Storywise... California will never again produce great works of fiction... there's just no hope for WoW's story. It's sad that the FF writers read western classics and delivered our own culture back to us lol. I'm watching YouTube videos on esoteric non canon bible texts and keep thinking "oh that's where that FF boss or magic system comes from".
 
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Neranja

Neranja

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Daidraco said:
and its limited capacity are pure fucking aids and doesnt hold a candle to WoW's transmog system.
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I'd like to point out that WoW's first transmog system was pure fucking aids, too. At the beginning (Cataclysm era) you couldn't even transmog from your bank or void storage.

The current transmog system was retrofitted from the D3 transmog system during Legion.
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

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Neranja said:
I'd like to point out that WoW's first transmog system was pure fucking aids, too. At the beginning (Cataclysm era) you couldn't even transmog from your bank or void storage.

The current transmog system was retrofitted from the D3 transmog system during Legion.
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Not trying to be apprehensive, cause I could care less. But why even mention that? What is the "point" of pointing out that it was once a shitty system? All FFXIV has done in the past and is looking to do soon, is expand the limitations you have - not change anything that fundamentally makes their system shit. I guess its just going over my head.
 
Neranja

Neranja

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Daidraco said:
Not trying to be apprehensive, cause I could care less. But why even mention that? What is the "point" of pointing out that it was once a shitty system? All FFXIV has done in the past and is looking to do soon, is expand the limitations you have - not change anything that fundamentally makes their system shit. I guess its just going over my head.
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I don't wanted to be a dick, so sorry if it came off like that.

I'll try to expand a bit: You started to talk about how FFXIV is just 6 to 9 years younger than WoW. Meanwhile, it took Blizzard quite some time and effort to built their new transmog system, which now everyone thinks is "best in industry."

After being repeatedly questioned about it, SE is very likely working on something like it themselves, but have to work off some technical debt and limitations first. They are not talking about this because they are not sure how long it will take and what other technical challenges still lie ahead. SE works in that way: they don't announce everything they are working on, only things that are almost finished.

My naive guess here is that the planned engine update for 7.0 will not only update graphics, but also lay the groundwork for the new system.
 
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Ff14 just has nuclear consolitus and Japan not invented here syndrome. They have to make shitty ui and pretend its good for years before they can fix it.
 
Burns

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Here is a first, don't they usually wait until a month or two after the new xpac releases to include the last xpac into the base game?

2022-08-22 18.07.04 www.mmo-champion.com 8f47a31f8c85.png
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

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Burns said:
Here is a first, don't they usually wait until a month or two after the new xpac releases to include the last xpac into the base game?

View attachment 429331
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Ive seen the conversation pop up time and time again on reddit, and hell, even here, when it comes to someone wanting to play the game but wont because it doesnt include SL's. Though, we all know its because retail has an ever shrinking player base. The greedy fucks can parade the token around all they want, promote boosts and carries all they want, but if there isnt anyone left to buy the tokens its a pretty fucking fail boat business model.
 
Caeden

Caeden

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Even with that, I couldn’t be assed to level up, clear the lfr’s, and check out the base content for $14. It’s probably worth it but then you’d be giving them money.
 
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Malakriss

Malakriss

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I got confused when they said "Desktop app" and thought it was a separate thing. But it's the launcher, so... sure yeah thanks for free still not subbing.
 
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Daidraco

Daidraco

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I really fucking hate that a sub to WoW lets you play Classic AND retail. I wish there was a fucking definitive choice you had to make to play classic. I want WOTLK classic launch to fucking blow all this bullshit out of the water. I want Dragonflight to have its sales records peak cause it'll show people are still interested in WoW but after that first month, WOTLK has more subs than retail once again.

I couldnt care less about all that interoffice politics shit, sexual harassment and all that BS. Any grown ass adult knows that shit exists fucking everywhere to varying degrees. Especially in successful companies. They need to realize WoW was based off a masculine ass principle - Orcs VS Humans - and fucking support that. If not, get bent and stay broke you woke jokes.
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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Caeden said:
Honestly, up through legion I’d say WoW was overall the way superior game. The WoW transmog shits all over FF14’s as far as I’m concerned. FF14’s biggest thing is figuring out how to make old content continue to be relevant.

There are times I flat out think WoW’s presentation of the class hall stories was way superior than FF14 class quests.

I think the Job system is great. I think the raids and dungeons are mostly great. I do not think they’re this epiphany compared to WoW at least at a casual sense. Gameplay wise WoW classes have at various times been better than anything so far in 14. Tanks in particular. I do enjoy the additional complexity for DPS. Bags, handing in quest items, etc are clearly handled better in WoW. I think the other big advantage of 14 is the devs clearly expect that you want to do other things. I respect that. There’s grinds but everything doesn’t reek of dripping content to keep you hooked in a la WoW about Draenor on.

14’s story and writing is at times completely childish while mature. It’s that odd Japanese thing. WoW could present some more mature writing when not dropping into pop culture references. I have no reference for whether late BFA and Shadowlands adopted the more infantile writing so prevalent among millennial pronoun liberals or not. I presume “I did a thing” and “and that’s a good/bad thing” writing shit crept in since the adults left. I have a feeling I won’t have to ever see that in 14 and I’m thankful for that.

Ultimately, with some downers, I’d still say WoW at least through legion was a top 3 game of all time for me. 14 hasn’t even cracked a top 10 and I’d currently rank it among modern theme park MMOs behind WoW and SWTOR (launch only) overall for me from a content and story perspective. I suspect it should surpass SWTOR fairly easily as I sink further into it but HW doesn’t even crack vs any good WoW xpac or the better SWTOR class stories.

still a good game. It’s just not changing my life.
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You're the guy just in Stormblood now, right? I suspect your story praise will change considerably as you continue from where you are.

As for comparisons, they are completely different games in many regards. Agree completely on the Japanese writing description. I'll disagree on HW not beating any WoW expansion (at least story wise). No WoW expansion holds a candle to it as far as story goes. The Class Hall v. class stories in 14 are a different matter entirely, though. Aside from a very few standouts (Dark Knight sticks out here), most of 14's class stories are fairly bland (although some quality rise and fall with the first couple of expansions as they are different story threads for each). Class Halls in Legion were just great, and it highlights a strength WoW does have at times. They can do some really good storytelling on a smaller scale, but most of the "bigger picture" lore doesn't hold up as well.

SWTOR class stories are an interesting comparison as well...some of the best were definitely up there (Imp Agent, Sith Warrior my top 2), but none of those compare to 14's MSQ in the later expansions, although mostly do to scale and the fact that it's really only vanilla SWTOR we can compare it to, since they didn't REALLY extend any of the class stories much in any meaningful way beyond that.
 
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Ehrgeix

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Maybe I just don’t get weeb shit - shadowbringers was very good but the rest of ff14 story sucks dick (bits of hw/doma sb ok, ew wildly disappointing). SWToR imperial agent, sith warrior etc were way better.

I’m not sure WoW has ever done storytelling very well in game, but the WotLK cinematic trailer is my favourite piece of gaming media - really a masterpiece. Watching the current team try to imitate the same feel is like watching some clown trying to fingerpaint classical art.

 
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Caeden

Caeden

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Merrith said:
You're the guy just in Stormblood now, right? I suspect your story praise will change considerably as you continue from where you are.

As for comparisons, they are completely different games in many regards. Agree completely on the Japanese writing description. I'll disagree on HW not beating any WoW expansion (at least story wise). No WoW expansion holds a candle to it as far as story goes. The Class Hall v. class stories in 14 are a different matter entirely, though. Aside from a very few standouts (Dark Knight sticks out here), most of 14's class stories are fairly bland (although some quality rise and fall with the first couple of expansions as they are different story threads for each). Class Halls in Legion were just great, and it highlights a strength WoW does have at times. They can do some really good storytelling on a smaller scale, but most of the "bigger picture" lore doesn't hold up as well.

SWTOR class stories are an interesting comparison as well...some of the best were definitely up there (Imp Agent, Sith Warrior my top 2), but none of those compare to 14's MSQ in the later expansions, although mostly do to scale and the fact that it's really only vanilla SWTOR we can compare it to, since they didn't REALLY extend any of the class stories much in any meaningful way beyond that.
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To be fair I said HW vs good WoW xpac. Finer point: TBC, WotLk, legion and mayyyybe Panda only over HW. Rest easily below. And I’d personally put MoP below. I was one of the few that loathed that xpac aside from class design.

Somehow I got into crafting this past week. Good veg play after working 12 hour days. I’m digging back into MSQ now. Looking forward to it. I’ll admit that you do build a certain affinity for the supporting cast that is only possible with the slow burn story and FF14’s presentation. Very few characters in WoW do you start to build that with. Thrall, Torino Fordring, maybe pre-crazy Sylvanas….rest mostly are meh.
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

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Khadgar had some kind of romance with a bitch back in Legion. Hes not married and definitely not gay. Dont buy into that reddit BS.
 
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