Foggy
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Not in this case, no. M+ trinkets will typically do fine but are significantly weaker. Some items, like rings or class items, are irreplaceable.
World of Warcraft: Current Year
- Thread starter hodj
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
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The real power creep, in DF, is crafted items, in which every M+16 or higher gives a shard, that when you combine 10 of them together, you can use it to craft a 418 item.
M+ drops are scaling higher this season/xpac (up to 405), but not better than 2/3s of the heroic raid (402 to 411). They overtuned some of the raid items (trinkets, a couple rings, a staff for Evokers, and a Bow for hunters) to where the heroic level item is better than the M+20 weekly loot box items for those slots (421). In the case of the hunter bow, before the nerf (2 months into the raid), the raid finder bow (385) was, supposedly, as good as a 421 bow from the weekly box.
In BFA and Shadowlands, as far as I remember, the M+ gear didn't scale as high, so heroic gear was always better than the drops, but not better than the weekly box. The box was slow enough, as to not power creep a heroic raid that badly.
Shadowlands S2 or S3 introduced the high ilvl M+ upgradeable gear above heroic ilevel. Set, rare items, and trinkets are the only reasons to do heroic raid. It is in line with their new philosophy to make every form of content almost independent (M+, raid, rated pvp). I prefer destiny 2 way of doing things where doing all form of contents gives an advantage in gearing.
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
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Foggy
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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With respect to M+ and raiding, doing both forms does give you an advantage. M+ supplements raid slots where you haven’t gotten lucky in mythic raid and allows you to craft 418 gear (2 BiS items). Somebody who only raids will be significantly weaker than somebody who does both. Same for a M+ only player.
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There is still a decent intersection between M+ and raids, but M+ gearing is almost sufficient by itself now. PvP is also almost completely isolated from PVE.
Edit: To clarify with my personal experience. I cleared 20s M+ within the first weeks and got to like 410+ ilvl without ever getting a tier set piece from the raid (although I did do the raid). Doing heroic raiding this season has been completely useless for me (although there was a possibility to get more powerful if I had gotten 2+ tier set).
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Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Frankly I think PVP should be isolated from PVE. Maybe a potential path to basic gearing, like something between Normal/Heroic, but nothing close to actual pve stuff like raids or M+. Obviously pvp should let you get gear that helps you pvp better, though.
Jox
Molten Core Raider
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Problem if you do that is PvP dies. SL season 1 had the highest participation and you could get mythic raid from arena (there was also covid lockdown tbf). I think gear should be gear, pve gear should give an advantage in pvp and vice versa. Fuck the competitive integrity of pvp or pve, it's a MMORPG.
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You mean a vocal subset of the pvp community hated that, like streamers. Blizzard need to stop listening to them. Them complaining doesn't even mean they stop playing the game. Hype and participation goes way up when pve players can bring their raid 2her into arena and smack kids with unfair advantage. That's just part of the MMORPG thrill.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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No, everyone hates that shit. PvE players do not want to beg for carries to get PvE gear from the shitty Arena system. And PvP mains sure as shit don't want to deal with the artificial influx or have to PvE for their PvP gear
Wrong, mythic world first raiders were forced into it. Your typical PvErs wasn't forced into anything. If you were an elite PvPers you could get an early max ilvl weapon and have an advantage, which was good and deserved, imo. My very regular group of M+ had only 2 pvpers (myself included). I had like 2-3 ilvl over everyone else with my PvP duelist/rival gear, basically irrelevant.
Maybe, doesn't mean it is bad for the game. Plenty of activities in WoW I don't like, such as world quests. They still serve a purpose in the game and enhance the experience in ways that are not necessarily direct enjoyment. Alot of PvP-adverse players are just anxious pussies who would benefit from being shoved into the arena once in a while.
Not a game developer, I would definitely not fit with the current philosophy which is just catering to whiners and streamers instead of pushing your own vision for the game.
Go away? I'm the one still playing the game. Despite blizzard doing everything the whiners wanted for DF, the expansion is more dead than the worst of SL, although this is still early in the expansion life. Even at the start of the season, PvP ladder was deflated as fuck. Removing pvp rated gear, or nuking the pve ilvl of gear in pvp has done NOTHING to help participation in the game.
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Why would pvp die? I thought it always had its own dedicated group. Although with the current downturn of the entire game maybe the pvp population is at such a low level it couldn't handle that.