Daidraco
Avatar of War Slayer
- 10,699
- 11,359
World of Warcraft: Current Year
- Thread starter hodj
- Start date
Those running heroics on farm status and those doing LFR looking to move up but can't. They're two separate islands and the ocean between is constant non-stop hurricanes of fuck all. Their is a most definite gap between those two social structures. I know from experience it can be all but impossible to cross that bridge without a being in a raiding guild full of patient people willing to teach and tolerate mistakes. If you don't believe me look at LF Flex spam in Org. "LF 1 tank 565+ Flex 1 plz link heroic achieve". And these fuckers aren't trolling, they're dead serious. As I said, a lot of it has to do with how long the current raids have been out but it 100% is there.
Needless
Toe Sucker
- 9,561
- 3,510
He's definitely right about that. Most people are discouraged because even the most average players have some sort of "elite" entitlement attached to them which is hilarious
They should honestly make normal only marginally more difficult compared to LFR in terms of difficulty then people would start branching out. It would be the same content only making the difficulty slightly harder and more so an intro to actually forming your group by yourself instead.
Yet you'll reap better awards. If you want the casuals to do more than LFR once a week and bail
They should honestly make normal only marginally more difficult compared to LFR in terms of difficulty then people would start branching out. It would be the same content only making the difficulty slightly harder and more so an intro to actually forming your group by yourself instead.
Yet you'll reap better awards. If you want the casuals to do more than LFR once a week and bail
Translation of that LFR spam: "LF people to carry my lazy, inept, standing-in-fire arse to free epixxx".
Fun thing about the oqueue analogue they're baking into the standard UI: they've specifically said that one of the filters they've built into it is you can't create a raid with a minimum ilvl requirement above your own average ilvl (and I'd imagine similar things like "Must have achievements x,y, & z" when they've not got them).
alavaz
Trakanon Raider
- 2,007
- 715
Daidraco
Avatar of War Slayer
- 10,699
- 11,359
Eh, Im going to have to disagree. That raiding gap has probably been the smallest its ever been in World of Warcraft thanks to lfr and flex. Your complaints are valid, but theyre basic. Find a guild thats where you are ilvl wise right now. Work with them a week or two, and get yourself geared up a bit more. If you find yourself in a position where you arent dying to stupid shit and know the encounters better than your guild (which happens, often), then start looking for another guild. A better guild. I hate to encourage guild hopping, but its the stress you're going to have to deal with if you want to reach Heroic difficulty with any type of speed. That is, if you dont know a Heroic Group willing to carry your Heavy Ass. Getting to Heroic Content by pugging is going to take much longer and be far more frustrating.
As for flex 1 and similar, just start using oQueue or making your own groups. People had retarded requirements for Flex 1 a long ass time ago and its not going to be any different now.
If my complaints (I hate using that word in this situation, it just makes what I'm trying to say seems trite and petty) are basic, it's only because the problem is very black and white. At this point in the game, at least from what I'm seeing in chat and on forums, is that guilds currently downing 25 heroics are not really recruiting from the mail room. Yes, their are guilds at that level looking for people, but the open positions are EXTREMELY specific in their requirements and require an ilvl that for anyone qualifying it's going to be a lateral move, not a promotion. The only circumstances creating a candidate like this is from people leaving a guild of equal skill for whatever reason or RL stuff such as a work schedule change.
I would also say getting into a guild in that transitional phase right now is going to be extremely unlikely, as least if you want a guild with members willing to do what it takes to make that effort. I've been in more than one guild over the years with heroic farm stars in their eyes that fell apart during the first 10 man boss they ever did together and became a family guild overnight without another word spoken of the raid again.
To sum up my point(s) right now raiding in WoW has a very "chicken and the egg" type feel to it when it comes to moving up the ladder. Groups want people that have been there before, they know Org is going to have more than a few who have looking to raid at that particular moment, and therefore most will not get their chance to prove themselves. To go back to the employment analogies I was using above it's just easier for a company to hire someone that knows the work.
Daidraco
Avatar of War Slayer
- 10,699
- 11,359
Now this, I can follow. I wrote up a post not to long ago about having to deal with that shit on the Heroic level. Once you reach Heroics, if the guild you're in isnt progressing like other guilds are in Heroic mode - then your chances of completing Heroic are pretty slim. Guild hopping no longer works because, as you stated, someone basically has to leave the old raid group for you to get a spot. Which could also spell disaster for that raid group because, what if they were the stongest force within that raid team? Can you fill that position? Theres more to it, but in my opinion, Heroics (in general) involve a huge amount of politics and skillful play to be completed. When all I really want, is to just play the fucking game!
I personally think I would enjoy the game a hell of a lot more if they would just lock every single boss to its own encounter, like Flex. Instead, I have to be very fucking careful and play guild politics to make sure that Im in the right guild with the right people that wont screw me over for that week and waste my time. All because Blizzard thinks its fucking cute to lock you to your own individual Heroic instance.
I actually meant exactly this. That this tactic is so common now is what's wrong with the game.
No kidding, I wish Blizzard were a little more flexible in their raid design.
Ryoz
<Donor>
- 846
- 194
You're exaggerating quite a bit there actually. Trade chat pugs aren't really teams you should be looking for anyway. I realize LFR and Flex are more impromptu, but OQ or Open Raid will help the quality of flex raids you find drastically. Eventually you can look for a permanent normal team that suits your schedule. It will take some time to gear up, get your cloak if you haven't, but if you want to raid heroics that's what you have to do. There's definitely going to be some sampling of teams too to find one that is a good fit. Once you get nearly full normal geared and a Garrosh kill, you'll probably be able to start looking for a heroic team. It's not an overnight process, maybe that's why there's this seemingly huge gap.
alavaz
Trakanon Raider
- 2,007
- 715
Start apping to guilds with intentions to do Mythic right now if you want to raid in WoD. Most of their members are likely on hiatus and the ones that do still play will probably get you at least 14/14 normal and a hand full of heroics in short order. If you like them and they like you I'd bet you can get a reserved spot at the very least for their initial run through Heroic difficulty in WoD and if they stop working out well then you have the gear to move on.
A little bit of forsight and commitment can go a long way in WoW since most players tend to lack those two qualities.
A little bit of forsight and commitment can go a long way in WoW since most players tend to lack those two qualities.
Needless
Toe Sucker
- 9,561
- 3,510
Right, flex is there but flex is also plagued with idiots requiring overgeared people and shit.
But I guess that would be no different if normal was like that too i guess.
alavaz
Trakanon Raider
- 2,007
- 715
If you use Blizzards grouping tool you will get picked up for a Flex without bloated gear requirements. Flex groups are a little thinner at this point in the expac, but when 6.0 hits they'll probably be going like crazy for heirlooms.
I've had pretty great luck with oqueue for flex since resubbing a month ago. The bigger issue I have now is that I log in, play for a few hours to run all the flex/lfr wings and then am kind of done for the week because the guilds and pickups on my server seem to want like ilvl 550ish for normal mode and I keep getting boned on flex drops (I got three yesterday, which are the exact same three I already had). I wish we could run stuff multiple times a week, because it really does feel I get everything done that I can do by wednesday evening and then have nothing I can really do to progress my character. It's same with the legendary cloak questline. I cap the valor for the week easily and then have to sit around waiting for another week. They really don't want people to poopsock their way through stuff, I guess. I imagine a lot of people lose interest at this point because it becomes a matter of waiting to do anything and you're in a deadzone of content you've already mastered and waiting for your ilvl to hit the next gearcheck point.
550 sounds like crazy overkill for normals, but it seems to be what most oqueue/guilds runs expected. I joined some guild that has weeknight normal modes, so with any luck I'll start getting normals a bit more frequently.
550 sounds like crazy overkill for normals, but it seems to be what most oqueue/guilds runs expected. I joined some guild that has weeknight normal modes, so with any luck I'll start getting normals a bit more frequently.
alavaz
Trakanon Raider
- 2,007
- 715
550 isn't crazy for normal honestly. If you have the cloak that should be attainable with mostly LFR gear and hopefully a couple of pieces from Celestials and Ordos. There are some weekend raiding guilds that just need a warm body and would probably carry you through the first 4-8 bosses on normal if you get lucky, but that's a iffy. Tuesdays are probably the hardest day for the under-geared to find a group.
Yeah, I'm working on the cloak now. Unfortunately it's week one of the "collect 3000 valor" segment for me, so I have to wait 3 weeks to progress that. I didn't realize it would be like that or I would have started doing it the second I hit 90. Weekend nights are a no-go for me, sadly, so I've been looking for weeknight raiders and it's been kind of tough. I think I found a guild that's looking pretty solid though.
Sterling
El Presidente
- 13,140
- 8,110
Is sometimes flex level groups that do like the first 2 bosses of normal since they're so much easier than the rest of the zone. 550 isn't crazy especially if they plan on going fairly deep. Having a bunch of dps doing like 110k dps is going to be a struggle. Also the loom thing will just mean lots of Flex 4 and not necessarily mean anything for the other wings.
alavaz
Trakanon Raider
- 2,007
- 715
Very true on Flex 4. The nice thing about 4 though is that every boss has a chance to drop tier so it's a great wing to gear up with.
Ah, ok. I had heard 530-540 was kind of the starting point for doing normal wing one, and 550+ was more like normal 3-4. I guess I'll just grind out flex a bit more then. It just kind of sucks to blast through flex in an evening, get shit drops, and then have nothing to really do on that character for the week since I'm not really into the pvp stuff.